[Drth Vadr]

These are the 3 bike that I'm targeting in the used market. I'm leaning towards the Session FR b/c it shares the frame with the DH version and I've seen them reasonably cheap. My thinking is that I can swap out the Totem for a dual crown when ever.The Glory on the other hand I'm not super crazy about, but I like them. Maybe it's the inside the bike feel that I've read about. They can also be found cheap. I also see a lot of Demo's 4 sale in my price range, I'm not truly interested in a Demo, but I can't rule them out at some of the prices I've seen. I tend to lean towards frames that have a vertical shock mounting for some unconscious reason if that makes any sense. Curious why I see so many practically new Demo's and Glory's for sale and many of the sellers have purchased new rigs? If anyone who has owned, ridden any or all of the above bike mentioned please chime in.

 

[baca262]

if you tend to plow through ****, stay away from demo. on the other hand, if you like a lively poppy bike, go for the demo. trek and giant should ride roughly the same, trek is perhaps slightly better at braking while giant is slightly better at plowing. it you can, try all 3 out.

 

[norbar]

if you tend to plow through ****, stay away from demo. on the other hand, if you like a lively poppy bike, go for the demo. trek and giant should ride roughly the same, trek is perhaps slightly better at braking while giant is slightly better at plowing. it you can, try all 3 out.

Imho Trek is even worse at plowing than the demo. Giant is the best at it from the 3.

 

[Drth Vadr]

Well if I wasn't on the fence then I sure am now. There is alway some plowing that has to be done. My prior selections were mini DH type bikes like TRR250, 2012 Uzzi, The One, with the lean going to the Uzzi b/c of hub versitility and being the cheapest frame set. So, no, plowing is not a main concern. I'm no pro and don't always look for the best line. I need a forgiving bike that brakes good.

 

[norbar]

For braking take the demo but imho neutral braking is overated. You get used to some brake squat and just learn to pick your lines.

 

[William42]

I'm pretty sure their braking curves are all pretty similar. The demo and the session have pretty similarly placed pivots, and they both plow just fine. I have never had any problems getting hung up in flat rock gardens. Really, of the three, the only one not to get is the glory (I don't support getting bikes that have crappy geo that you have to fix with after market products, make the company actually build a bike with good geo from the start). Also, the shock tune makes a huge difference for plowing.

 

[Ithnu]

I think braking is an issue. I went from a Giant Faith to a Commencal to a Demo8. The brake jack on the Commy was definitely noticeable. The Demo8 took me a bit to get used to as well, that short chain stay is what causes everyone to call it "flickable". I was getting bucked the first few days since the Commy was very neutral jumping, point it at the landing and you're pretty much good.

After a few rides I liked the Demo better actually. I found I was clearing things with less speed than the Commy; that short chain stay lets you flick the bike a bit higher and you can avoid casing landings. However as others have said, it is less of a plow bike. It wants to hop over some larger rocks instead of suck them up. Not bad, just different.

 

[Drth Vadr]

Well Will or Bill so far you have been a good player in this thread, both of them, any thoughts on other 7-8 in bikes, but not necessarily full DH rig but capable worth looking in to?

 

[Infini IV]

I've had a day on a Demo, but can only compare it to my Sunday. On the Demo, your riding position is naturally placed further back. Plowing through rough stuff may not be the smoothest, but always felt easily controllable with some speed. Cornering got better throughout the day as I consciously weighted the front end more. I think the best attribute with the Demo was the jumping. It felt very comfortable in the air and definitely much easier to get more air than in my Sunday.

 

[davec113]

The demo and the session have pretty similarly placed pivots, and they both plow just fine. I have never had any problems getting hung up in flat rock gardens.

They can plow, but not as well as many others. There were a couple places where a friend on a V10C definitely maintained more speed through flat rocks than I did on my Session 88. It is very rare that it makes much of a difference, and I feel that's really the Session's only weakness. The '12 Sessions have a slightly revised shock leverage curve to improve their plow-ability.

 

[William42]

I guess at this point, the things I want a bike to do are not get hung up, stay really balanced in the travel, track well, sit deep in corners, not bottom out, have a balanced feel while jumping, and have consistent geometry (eg the bike doesn't feel radically different 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 inches into the travel). Its also important that the front end comes up easily, and that it doesn't get caught up in high speed chunder stuff, where each hit smashes 60-70% of the way through your travel. Pretty straight forward stuff.

Since most of that can be accomplished with shock tunes (and most modern shocks are pretty solid, I'm on the custom tuned DHX5.0 that trek made for that bike, but I think even regular DHX5's are fine, and a boxxer team, which also feels pretty fricken good) and staying on top of suspension maintenance, the only things that the frame does that are really that important to me are the geometry thing, with chassis stability and feeling stable and being able to get the front end up. The giant is one of the few modern DH bikes that I feel like I'm too far over the front end, and its going to endo, and also that its difficult to pop the front end up. Maybe I need to give it another chance, I've only ridden two of them for a couple runs each, but they both felt exactly the same in that regard.

Anyway, maybe everybody else is just alot faster/more sensitive towards their bike then I am, but general the times that I notice myself going slower or faster then somebody else while "plowing" are the times I'm in open fireroad with small bumps here and there. If its a real DH trail (I know, everybody has different local trails, I'm not trying to suggest anybodies trails aren't manly), chances are I'm going more then fast enough. I'd rather be worrying about my brakes and tires then subtle differences that manifest themselves in 2-3 seconds over the entire trail. Chances are, if I feel like I'm getting hung up and want a "faster" bike, that faster bike is going to be in the opposite direction of "more travel/more rearward/more sloppy bike" and its going to be more in the direction of a 30lb trail bike with light tires.

Its hard to put into words, but I guess the overarching point I'm trying to get across is, chances are, suspension settings will go a really long way in how the bike rides, there are a lot of bikes with really good geometry and a lot of really good dampers out there (for both front and rear). Every company has their selling points, but the long and short is that if you're feeling massive differences between them, chances are your setup is wack, and that you need to overhaul your suspension or tune it differently, or you're on a really sh1tty bike. The session and demo are not sh1tty bikes. If you want a DH bike, they're good choices. If you want a short travel jump bike, the trails you ride are probably not DH trails (or you wished they were jump trails).

 

[norbar]

It's a bold statement that the faster bike is going to be a light trail bike for dh. Especially that you can still have a light rearward bike. Imho most companies don't go rearward not because they don't agree with it but want to have one platform throughout all of their lineup (trek, spec etc) and really rearward bikes are not something you need or want for anything but dh. I'm feeling the same as Davec and I see differances on high speed rough parts. I tend to catch up to people. Of course it's not really a good test since I may just be better at carrying speed through the rocks (i doubt it since I'm lately slower at dh tracks than my friends) or something else at my setup.
The only reasonable way would be to do blind tests on a rough track section to see the differance. Then again fully blind tests with bikes are not possible but doing it up to a certain degree is.

 

[William42]

I guess my point is, that if I feel like I'm getting hung up, its probably because the trail is slower, and not a real DH trail. If its a real DH trail, chances are, if I want to go a little bit faster, I just wont use my brakes quite as much. If a bike has good geometry, and reasonably well setup suspension, and good tires its going to be easy to corner and lay it down in a corner and pop out at the other end. The only exceptions to that in my mind are the jedi and legend, which require a lot more body english and learning the bike due to their rearward path - they wont hold you back once you learn it and the learning curve will be different for different people, but its harder for ME to just hop on one of those and rail it through a corner. But you put me on pretty much any other modern DH bike, and my cornering times are going to be close enough that other variables will play a much bigger role. Bike choice is not going to make nearly as much of a difference as most make it out to be imo. If its well setup, and has good geometry (see, the specialized demo, trek session, turner DHR, TR450, Divinci Wilson, Banshee Legend, V10, m6/m9, etc), you will be able to go very fast on it by simply adapting your body Engrish.

 

[TheTruth]

I am selling my 09 session frame for $1000 with RC4 2011

 

[Drth Vadr]

I am selling my 09 session frame for $1000 with RC4 2011

Shameless plug, but your to close to Diablo, I'm sure it has be used up like a woman with three w/three different daddies. Something that you or anyone that has a Session could do is tell me how tall you are and what size frame you are or were riding (TT). I asked b/c I heard the Trek Session run small.

 

[staike]

I am 173 cm tall (5'8") on a 2010 Session 8 in Medium (23,5" TT) with 45 mm stem and 760 mm bars, feels great.

 

[William42]

I'm running a medium. Its a fun poppy little bike. I like having a small cockpit though. I could stand it if the wheelbase was slightly longer. I'm 6'1" with 31 inch bars and a 60mm stem. A large would probably fit me better, and I'd run a 35mm stem and 30 inch bars. But mediums were what was available. I have a buddy who is 5'10 on a medium, and he loves it.

 

[Drth Vadr]

I'm 5'11 32 inseam 6'2 wing spand and consider myself a tweener. 24" TT feels to big (can't quite get behind the seat) and a 23" TT feels like I'm no top of the front tire in attack position. Something just above 23 and below 24 I' think would feel good. I know of only a few bike that meet that requirement, (intense 951 23.5, Session 23.2 MD 23.8 lg, Glory 23.8 , tr 450 23.4)

 

[norbar]

I guess my point is, that if I feel like I'm getting hung up, its probably because the trail is slower, and not a real DH trail. If its a real DH trail, chances are, if I want to go a little bit faster, I just wont use my brakes quite as much. If a bike has good geometry, and reasonably well setup suspension, and good tires its going to be easy to corner and lay it down in a corner and pop out at the other end. The only exceptions to that in my mind are the jedi and legend, which require a lot more body english and learning the bike due to their rearward path - they wont hold you back once you learn it and the learning curve will be different for different people, but its harder for ME to just hop on one of those and rail it through a corner. But you put me on pretty much any other modern DH bike, and my cornering times are going to be close enough that other variables will play a much bigger role. Bike choice is not going to make nearly as much of a difference as most make it out to be imo. If its well setup, and has good geometry (see, the specialized demo, trek session, turner DHR, TR450, Divinci Wilson, Banshee Legend, V10, m6/m9, etc), you will be able to go very fast on it by simply adapting your body Engrish.

Strange as I was very comfortable on a legend from the get go but I stared with very low front end which forced an overly agressive position so that might have helped. Though I agree sometimes you have to ride the legend a bit differently.