[Damn True]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4580388.stm


I guess if they were just acting upon bad intelligence that they thought was correct at the time, we're safe in calling the news media liars here? Can we get a bumper sticker?

CNN lied, they all died!

 

[N8 v2.0]

Ouch....

 

[Andyman_1970]

Yeah not good...............

I'm waiting for someone to blame it either one dubya (because of the supposed poor conditions of the mine tryin to make a profit at the expense of safety) or the democrats because their welfare policies don't get people out of having to work dangerous jobs or something like that..................

 

[OGRipper]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4580388.stm


I guess if they were just acting upon bad intelligence that they thought was correct at the time, we're safe in calling the news media liars here? Can we get a bumper sticker?

CNN lied, they all died!

Pretty horrible flip-flop. I was watching CNN last night when they thought it was good news. For the most part Anderson Cooper and the other reporters were careful to say the reports were unconfirmed.

 

[Damn True]

Ok;

The Times lied, they all died!
The Post lied, they all died!
The Examiner lied, they all died!
The Mercury lied, they all died!

 

[N8 v2.0]

Ok;

The Times lied, they all died!
The Post lied, they all died!
The Examiner lied, they all died!
The Mercury lied, they all died!

:dancing:

 

[CHOP]

If you go back and read all the reports the CEO and President of the Mine (I think his name is Hatfield) said he knew 20 minutes after they said that 12 survived that those reports weren't true. He said he didn't want to tell anybody that they couldn't celebrate. So to me he is the one that lied or at least the one that didn't report the truth. CNN only reported what they were being told.

 

[Echo]

From what I've read, there was a rumor that there were 12 alive, and everyone started celebrating (understandably). When the officials realized that the rumor wasn't true, they decided to wait until they knew the exact situation before going in and spreading more unconfirmed information.

 

[peter6061]

From what I've read, there was a rumor that there were 12 alive, and everyone started celebrating (understandably). When the officials realized that the rumor wasn't true, they decided to wait until they knew the exact situation before going in and spreading more unconfirmed information.

That's what I heard.

 

[Damn True]

From what I've read, there was a rumor that there were 12 alive, and everyone started celebrating (understandably). When the officials realized that the rumor wasn't true, they decided to wait until they knew the exact situation before going in and spreading more unconfirmed information.

....meanwhile every news outlet in the country ran with info they had no substantiation for.

Like the memo.
Like the BS during Katrina.


So again, I guess if they were just acting upon bad intelligence that they thought was correct at the time, we're safe in calling the news media liars here?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

That's what I heard.

I also read that today in the Washington Post.

Even if the media lied about the workers being alive (which it doesn't seem they did) they would not be responsible for the workers' deaths. Slogans like "CNN lied, they all died" are simply inappropriate, especially when they are a direct play on the, "Bush lied, people died," slogans. The former is about inaccuracy of reporting, while the latter is about abuse of power that results in the death of people.

 

[Reactor]

....meanwhile every news outlet in the country ran with info they had no substantiation for.

Like the memo.
Like the BS during Katrina.


So again, I guess if they were just acting upon bad intelligence that they thought was correct at the time, we're safe in calling the news media liars here?

Only if you call the sack of S*** in the whitehouse one too!

 

[Old Man G Funk]

....meanwhile every news outlet in the country ran with info they had no substantiation for.

Not true. Look up the Washington Post. They specifically said that the families were saying their loved ones were alive.

Like the memo.
Like the BS during Katrina.

Which memo and which specific BS?

So again, I guess if they were just acting upon bad intelligence that they thought was correct at the time, we're safe in calling the news media liars here?

Again, I assume you are speaking about Bush acting on intelligence, but you are presenting the canard that he had the exact same intelligence as everyone else, when it has been shown that his office left important material out of the reports that were circulated to the senate and elsewhere.

 

[Changleen]

So again, I guess if they were just acting upon bad intelligence that they thought was correct at the time, we're safe in calling the news media liars here?

Although the Media didn't invade a country and kill 100,000 civilians based on their faulty intelligence.

And they made a point of saying it was 'unconfirmed', whereas the people you are trying to defend went in front of the UN and made up even more **** to persuade people that their lies were reality. And that whole Africa-Uranium thing, c'mon DT, they KNEW that was out and out BS.

 

[Damn True]

I feel deeply for the families of those miners.

But I am so loving the rest of the deal. The sound of tapdancing is deafening.

 

[Westy]

The fact that the truth was misreported is becoming a bigger story than a dozen or so miners died is quite sad.

 

[Echo]

The fact that the truth was misreported is becoming a bigger story than a dozen or so miners died is quite sad.

Almost as sad as people trying to spin it as some sort of vindication of the bush administration.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Almost as sad as people trying to spin it as some sort of vindication of the bush administration.

Yes, much better for asshats to BLAME Bush for this tragedy somehow.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I feel deeply for the families of those miners.

But I am so loving the rest of the deal. The sound of tapdancing is deafening.

The only tapdancing here is yours.

 

[Changleen]

I feel deeply for the families of those miners.

But I am so loving the rest of the deal. The sound of tapdancing is deafening.

Of course it's loud when you're ears are so close to your own feet, Michael Flatley.

 

[Westy]

The only tapdancing here is yours.

That is because the rest of us are immoral liberals.

And N8 can't dance.

:dancing:

 

[Velocity Girl]

So here's my question....they were told 12 alive 1 dead. They all start celebrating. Why are they cheering when they are just told 1 man is dead? They're cheering when 1 family will not have their loved one coming home. Also, saying they were alive is not the same as being out of danger and rescued. At that point they still needed to get out of the mine.

I just think it was a bit callous to start celebrating in such a fashion in the face of at what they "knew" to be at least one death. As well as a premature celebration at that point.

I think what happened is terrible and am not trying to belittle their situation, I'm just curious. What if they had been told 6 were alive and 7 dead? Would they still have been celebrating the same way? What if others passed away before making it out? Would people have been trying to beat up the messenger? I also wonder how I would react if I was told there was at least one dead and it could potentially be my family member.....I don't think I would be happy until I knew my loved one was ok????

 

[Silver]

So here's my question....they were told 12 alive 1 dead. They all start celebrating. Why are they cheering when they are just told 1 man is dead?

Hey, with those numbers you have a 92% chance of not having your celebration go awry...

 

[Velocity Girl]

Hey, with those numbers you have a 92% chance of not having your celebration go awry...

And although good odds....what about the one family who's love one isn't coming home? I guess I just feel that the jubulent celebration reported was a bit much considering they were told a man had died. If they were told all were alive....celebrate till the cows come home. But under the circumstances, I don't think shouting from rooftops was appropriate.

 

[Damn True]

Here are a couple of spot-on takes:

Miners Dead: Who Asked The Basic Reporter's Question: 'How Do You Know?'
Former CNN producer Tom Farmer writes to TVNewser:

"Too many celebrity anchors assembled in West Virginia last night -- not enough reporters. When twelve-alive fever swept the live shot positions, who asked the basic reporter's question: 'How do you know?' Who demanded a second source? Who held back pending more official confirmation? By uncritically and breathlessly relaying shouted bulletins from sprinting family members, the cable celebs transubstantiated rumor into fact. Reporting means asking questions and making cautious judgments, not just repeating things you hear.

This is a classic, tragic case of fear of being left behind, and critical-mass media momentum, crushing basic judgment. It will be a good long time before I can look at braying, beaming, bouncing Rita Cosby and believe she has any critical faculties or filters. And she was only one offender.

And we wonder why the audience believes less and less mainstream media coverage. It's literally unbelievable.

Who asks 'How do you know?' anymore?"




"CNN had showed the problems with going live with a story -- with Cooper constantly talking on camera, he was prevented, of course, from doing any actual reporting. He was at the mercy of people who happened to come up to him and give him the news..."

Referring to the woman who told the world that only one miner made it out alive, he writes: "It was remarkable that Cooper and CNN even allowed the woman to say what she did, since it flew in the face of everything everybody had been reporting for hours (and would be printed incorrectly in many morning newspapers nationwide)."




Say you're sorry, CNN
Is CNN being repentant enough?

Is it missing a golden opportunity by not being repentant enough?

If you watched CNN's wall-to-wall coverage last night of Anderson Cooper et al. celebrating the rescue of the miners -- and then saw its journalists focusing on the "bad communication" this morning, you saw a network only half-admitting, maybe one-quarter-admitting that it was, in fact, part of the problem.

As I write this, CNN's Daryn Kagan has just finished showing us headlines from the major daily newspapers, which passed along the erroneous report that 12 out of 13 miners had survived. Then we cut to a very selective clip of CNN's own coverage: Anderson Cooper getting the initial report. Then, whoop -- forward three hours, past all that coverage of the "Miracle in the Mines," or whatever they were calling it, to the woman coming out and telling Cooper the initial reports were wrong.

Good coverage, as always, by TVNewser

Also, Roger Catlin stayed up real late. He notes that CNN covered this story more aggressively than other channels and that Anderson Cooper was being pulled hither and yon by every false report.

Then, to its credit, CNN aired an interview with that same local resident who spilled the beans to Cooper the night before:

"Why did that get broadcast around the world?" Lynette Roby said. "For three hours? Put everyone through that? ... How could nobody have compassion to say, Hold on a minute?"

Link: CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News.

I think there does need to be an investigation into how the officials at the mine handled the news. But CNN was the organization on the scene with the most experience handling worldwide breaking news events. And its role in last night's rumor mongering deserves to be put under the same scrutiny.

Seeing how CNN relentlessly promotes its coverage of the mine tragedy -- and would no doubt have been running highly emotional ads today linking itself to the "miracle in the mine shaft" had the miners been found alive -- I find it disingenuous, at best, that it is only obliquely admitting to being part of the problem.

There's also an opportunity here. Journalists love to talk about "transparency" these days. CNN is looking for a way to distinguish itself from its competition. An event like this would be an opportunity to promote CNN as a news channel that's not afraid to take viewers inside the sausage machine that is news. After all, it is one of a handful of organizations that handles live, breaking news on a regular basis. It's unrealistic to expect they will get everything right. So why act as though they do -- and then spend hours of time pointing fingers at others and demand transparency from them?

Were newscasters like CNN waiting for mine officials to give them those quiet, off-the-record indications that all was not well? That the reports were wrong? And because they didn't, the rumors were allowed to spread like wildfire?

Well, then say that. Take ownership. We'll forgive you, and might even respect you a little more. (Especially if you use some of that time for transparency that you currently use to shill for your Pipeline service, even airing promos posing as news stories.)

By shifting the focus away from its own role, CNN is missing a golden chance to connect with its viewers in a way Fox News and MSNBC (with the exception of Keith Olbermann and Don Imus) doesn't.

Of course, that would require CNN to make itself part of the story -- and apologize to Lynette Roby and the others who were there for putting them through the emotional whipsaw.

Posted by Aaron Barnhart on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 at 09:20 AM in News and comment, Spotlight | Permalink

 

[Damn True]

The only tapdancing here is yours.

Exactly how so? I'm just callin it as I see it. The media is not pointing fingers at itself with anything like the veracity they point it at those they'd like to take down.

The media is it's own biggest fan and has become increasingly a tool for division and disinformation. I'm happy to see the 5th estate showing it's a$$ once again.

 

[Damn True]

And in an interesting contrast:

Did anyones local paper misreport the score of the FSU Penn State game?

 

[sanjuro]

And although good odds....what about the one family who's love one isn't coming home? I guess I just feel that the jubulent celebration reported was a bit much considering they were told a man had died. If they were told all were alive....celebrate till the cows come home. But under the circumstances, I don't think shouting from rooftops was appropriate.

I guess it all relative. You expect every miner to be dead, then you hear almost everyone survived, even my gut reaction was good news.

I suppose if you expected all to live, then you hear one has died, I am sure the reaction would have been more muted.

 

[Transcend]

....meanwhile every news outlet in the country ran with info they had no substantiation for.

Like the memo.
Like the BS during Katrina.


So again, I guess if they were just acting upon bad intelligence that they thought was correct at the time, we're safe in calling the news media liars here?

The news outlets carry far too much unsubstantiated information as of late, that is what 24 hour news networks have brought forth. It is all "rumour", not facts.

At least CNN was good enough to continuously mention that it was simply rumour and unconfirmed.

Division and disinformation my ass, they are reporting the facts that they have. They report it as such. I'll take info that is right 90% of the time immediatley, rather then news the next day that is 90% correct.

edit: "Too many celebrity anchors assembled in West Virginia last night -- not enough reporters. When twelve-alive fever swept the live shot positions, who asked the basic reporter's question: 'How do you know?

Anderson Cooper, about 3 dozen times.

 

[Changleen]

Exactly how so?

By comparing it to the justification for Iraq?

 

[Damn True]

I wonder, do the news networks charge a premium for advertising time during stuff like this, Katrina or the ground war in Iraq? If so it would explain their willingness to abandon journalistic tennants such as "confirmed sources" or "truth" in an effort to get the breaking story out ahead of the other outlets.

 

[Damn True]

By comparing it to the justification for Iraq?

No tapdance there at all. There is no comparison.
You see in Iraq we had a ruthless dictator that had used C&BW against his own populace and Iran and promised to use them against coalition forces as well.
In WVA we have worthless media a$$hats.

 

[Changleen]

I wonder, do the news networks charge a premium for advertising time during stuff like this, Katrina or the ground war in Iraq? If so it would explain their willingness to abandon journalistic tennants such as "confirmed sources" or "truth" in an effort to get the breaking story out ahead of the other outlets.

Normally advertising rates are determined ahead of time based on average rating s for the period/show in question. (I'm technically in Marketing although I'm IT)

 

[Changleen]

No tapdance there at all. There is no comparison.
You see in Iraq we had a ruthless dictator that had used C&BW against his own populace and Iran and promised to use them against coalition forces as well.
In WVA we have worthless media a$$hats.

But YOU made the comparison! Make up your mind!

 

[sanjuro]

BTW from the NY Times (Hatfield is the CEO of the company which owns the mine):

In his afternoon news conference, Mr. Hatfield provided a timeline about last night's events. The workers, he said, were operating several hundred feet below ground level and were communicating by radio and cell phones through oxygen masks that complicated clear understanding.

At 11:45 p.m. last night, he said, the mine rescue center received a report that 12 miners were alive. At 12:18 a.m., the rescue center received a report that the rescue workers and the "survivors" were leaving the area where they had been found.

"Company officials at the mine did not release any statements at this time," Mr. Hatfield said. "However, we were aware that numerous cell phone calls from a number of mine rescue workers and jubilant employees were made to family members and others upon receipt of this uplifting report."

At 12:30 a.m., when the rescue teams were at a place where they could breathe fresh air, "the mine command center was informed that there appeared to be only one survivor and that the others showed no vital signs," Mr. Hatfield said.

"The immediate reaction in the command center was that this report of only one survivor may be erroneous," he said.

"Many participants in the command center clinged to the fervent hope" that the others were "in some sort of comatose state and may be revivable," he said.

The one survivor, now known to be Randal McCloy Jr., 27, was taken immediately to a local hospital. Mr. Hatfield said he was in stable condition this afternoon.

He said that at 1:38 a.m. four additional rescue teams were dispatched along with emergency medical technicians to attend to the other miners. "Company and state officials did not believe it was prudent to issue a statement to family or the media without concrete information as to the actual status of the miners," he said.

At approximately 2 a.m., Mr. Hatfield said, "within minutes of learning that the initial reports were incorrect, state police officers were notified and asked to notify clergy that the initial reports may have been too optimistic."

He said that only some of the families were reached by those clergy.

The mine rescue teams were debriefed, "and company, state and federal officials became more convinced that the others were deceased."

By 2:30 a.m., he said, the company decided to announce the "devastating news," and "in keeping with our commitment, we went first to the church to tell the families, and then from there to the media center."

 

[Damn True]

Just a slam against the media that loves to hold certain groups accountable to a different standard than they hold themselves to.

Don't look for a deeper meaning, just being a smart a$$. Though if they are going to demand truth and fact and condemn those who do not provide it they ought to at least uphold the same standard.

 

[Damn True]

Normally advertising rates are determined ahead of time based on average rating s for the period/show in question. (I'm technically in Marketing although I'm IT)

They do have real time monitoring of ratings do they not? I can't imagine they wouldn't use it, or at least have some form of open pricing schedule that would allow them to go to GM or whomever after the fact and tack on a premium for a time slot that got higher ratings than expected.

 

[Changleen]

They do have real time monitoring of ratings do they not? I can't imagine they wouldn't use it, or at least have some form of open pricing schedule that would allow them to go to GM or whomever after the fact and tack on a premium for a time slot that got higher ratings than expected.

I don't know. Maybe. We advertise during prime time and on the News and we don't pay extra based on events. I don't know if it's differerent in the states. Our advertising schedule and budget is worked out roughly 2 months in advance, nearly entirely based on target audience and show. I can't imagine many companies except really huge ones would be willing to add that sort of variabilities to their costs. Even over here an ad during prime time is several thousand dollars.

 

[Damn True]

I don't know. Maybe. We advertise during prime time and on the News and we don't pay extra based on events. I don't know if it's differerent in the states. Our advertising schedule and budget is worked out roughly 2 months in advance, nearly entirely based on target audience and show. I can't imagine many companies except really huge ones would be willing to add that sort of variabilities to their costs. Even over here an ad during prime time is several thousand dollars.

Well one thing I am certain of is that there are network spots and cable spots. Frequently the network sells and controls the advertising that goes out nationwide (ie 3 out of the 5 commercials in a commercial break for instance an ad for Chevrolet, Sears and Crest) and the local cable company sells the other two (Local Car Dealer, and the Law office of Dewey Cheatem & Howe). While I can't see a network influencing a small time ad contract between a local cable company and its advertisers I can see them having a flexible pricing schedule with the big players.

This just occured to me, but in Superbowl games in which the game is close, the big time ads (Coke, Pepsi, Budwieser etc) run all the way through, but in blowouts they usually do not. There must me some kind of real-time sales going on there. If that kind of thing went on during big news events it would certainly offer a plausible motivation for the networks frequent faux-pas in terms of getting info out before it is confirmed.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Exactly how so? I'm just callin it as I see it. The media is not pointing fingers at itself with anything like the veracity they point it at those they'd like to take down.

The media is it's own biggest fan and has become increasingly a tool for division and disinformation. I'm happy to see the 5th estate showing it's a$$ once again.

As Changleen said, YOU compared it to the justification for Iraq. THAT'S the tap dancing. Even if the news got it horribly wrong due to some negligence (which by all accounts they were careful to state that these were unsubstantiated reports) it would be a far cry from blatant lying.