[iRider]

Thanks!
I was talking about the open bath one for the Boxxer. Reliability wise it should have the upper hand on the Charger, but performance?
I still have an old 180 mm Dorado TPC somewhere. Awesome fork and still feel-wise only matched by the BOS. Stiff an efficient damping. Pre-production, team fork, so unfortunately none of the later bushings and seals work. Lots of things custom in there. I further replaced the original closed cell foam they used with an IFP from a production model. Needed some modifications to fit, but did work. The elastomer stack and one of the springs was also replaced with springs from a Psylo to have a progressive spring rate. Had to fabricate a spring seat on the lathe to make it work.

Only a long time ago sorry, but I do think both the Charger and FIT are superior because they are sealed cartridges with air separated (unless you mean their 40 damper, which is sealed, but very expensive - I've only done a carpark spin on that and it felt underdamped in compression, but may have been valved too lightly for me). I've personally found open bath and semi bath cartridges to exhibit some inconsistencies due to aeration - it only affects mechanisms which are higher in the fork (as air rises to the top). So in Moco/Mico/etc you tend to lose some compression later in the run, and in full OB carts like the Avy/888 it tends to happen in rebound.

Current stock DH dampers really are excellent, @kidwoo and I are just bickering about milking that last 2% out of them.

If you did mean Avy's 40 damper though, that does do one cool thing in particular that I think is better than the Charger/FIT and that's the floating piston backed air chamber instead of a bladder. The ~03 TPC+ Dorado did this too (one of my favourite dampers), it should reduce cavitation and increase long term reliability.

 

[kidwoo]

I never said it wasn't HSR related?

Related I guess. My understanding is that it's the opposite of this:

Rapid Recovery to me just sounds like faster LSR / heavier HSR proportional to each other - although from reading the application list it probably just came out of the oven feeling like that and they decided to market it as a feature. I'd say it's more of a valving configuration on a conventional piston than an actual new technology. I've just revalved my shock to behave like that, mostly to get a little more pop without bucking

http://www.ridemonkey.com/threads/2015-fox-40-vs-the-2015-boxxer-wc-team.270512/page-2#post-4010005

But that's what I was thinking of. Maybe I misunderstood you.

It's cool to mess with things and I appreciate your conversion for sure (you're talking to a guy who put a TPC damper in a Boxxer, and more recently a Vivid IFP in a BOS shock) - but saying a damper is weak because you wouldn't change oil weight or shims but you would machine custom topcaps is a bit ???. You could speed up the HSR by opening up the holes on the rebound piston pretty easily.

"hey steve, feel like making these?"

"sure, I've got a guy"

.........I go skiing and drink beer while waiting, and pay a fairly small amount of money. It really wasn't that much work. And to be honest, I didn't want to tear into the thing not knowing exactly what I was trying to duplicate. And I don't think the fox setup is 'weak'. I just like the overall feel of this one better. Every 40 I've ever ridden (and honestly every fox coil) I've ended up running too stiff of a spring to keep the thing composed and up in the travel without feeling like a locked out over damped wrist killer. Every other machinist I talked to wanted hundreds of dollars and I wasn't going to do that, nor would I have. Steve didn't want/need that much.

Read what I've said in this thread again. There's not much 'magnitude' to my claims. I think it's slightly better and fixes essentially the one gripe I've had with my 40. This is in the 'minutia' realm, not something earth shattering. I've never said the newer fox stuff is crap/useless/weak, just that it could be improved. Which is why YOU have probably torn into the thing a few times too. But damn, even when asked in one those previous threads if I thought it was worth the money for everything including another charger damper, I kind of waffled around. I don't think the fox cartridge is that bad. It's light years better than they were a few years ago.

Did you by chance notice which damper the Charger was "almost an exact replica of" when it came out?

Rux. Duh.

I'd also call BS on your friend because the Fox rebound piston is tiny (this is actually why I believe you about the HSR) and thus it would be impossible to "literally copy" the Charger - any change would be miniscule given that the FIT piston is the size of your thumbnail:

Cool, go nuts. I haven't seen what fox has going on in the new 36s that aren't for sale yet. My buddy gets his training by fox on a fairly regular basis every time they come out with a new system. He's seen a version of it or some mockup. I haven't. And yeah everyone knows RS rippped off the basic design but now we're specifically talking about what fox has in the works on just the rebound circuit. The obvious one to me and my buddy who tears into this stuff for a living pointed something out and it makes sense, and jives with what another friend who designs the stuff at RS laid out. He described it as 'rebound damping with a threshold blowoff'. That seems pretty difficult but there's one little port on the rebound piston assembly that looks like what he might be talking about. If I remember right, it's on the shaft side of the piston above the needle assembly. Made sense to me.

Anyway to be more constructive, ......

Cool. I just bookmarked this for a reference. Before I do anything, I'm going to have each cartridge torn down and sitting on a bench in front of me to see specifically what to duplicate and get those measurements. Hell it would be really sweet if the parts were interchangeable but RS probably has something really important made out of plastic somewhere.

 

[Udi]

Yeah fair calls - you're right I did think they might have done the opposite initially looking at that post. Skipping the initial assumption though, it's fair to say I agree with you that quicker response from deeper in the stroke is probably a good thing on a fork, since it can't really buck you or do much dangerous as a result.

My point with the rebound piston is that it's substantially different to the RS item purely from a size standpoint. You will pull those cartridges apart and realise that one piston is much bigger than the other and as a result, replicating the function across the two pistons will have to involve different things - and won't necessarily be a matter of copying the NOS button disguised as cigarette lighter from one fork to the other. Faster HSR (i.e. more linear or even digressive rebound) is simply a function of more digression on the shim-controlled region of the curve, so if you're seeing a one-way valve or something then that's not actually responsible for the thing you feel. It's pretty much purely going to be a function of more port area under the shims for a given amount of flow through that piston - now keep in mind there is less oil to push through the fox piston so it's not as bad as it might look (smaller body to slide in = less oil to pass through it) - but I think the best way to get the FIT feeling closer to what you want is to increase the diameter of the 3 small holes facing the rebound shims as much as possible without sacrificing anything else.

However making a new piston would let you design those ports bigger which is why it'd be nicer than just modifying the stock one. I do have a spare here that I might drill out and try for fun.

But the thing to not ignore is that running more than halfway in on the LSC adjuster does tend to make things harsh for a given level of support, so in terms of maximising the net "dialed"-ness it's probably good to get the LS back into the first 1/3 zone too. Put simply, heavier valving means you can have the bypass (LS) port more open, so that oil can move more freely over smaller amplitude bumps (LS doesn't *only* affect low shaft speeds in reality) which means it's nicer on hands for a given level of dive resistance. I found anything over half closed on LS is a good indicator for needing a firmer valving, with 2/3 closed being about the maximum before it starts getting harsh (with HS full closed).

 

[kidwoo]

However making a new piston would let you design those ports bigger which is why it'd be nicer than just modifying the stock one. I do have a spare here that I might drill out and try for fun.

Do eeeeet!

I was picturing that port I was talking about coming into play as part of the shim stack standoff. That it would only be 'activated' at a really high rebound force (like a bottom out and then a bounce without the wheel on the ground providing resistence). I need to look at one again. It didn't seem like anything too complicated though.

 

[Sandwich]

too long, swapping to a medium frame...shortly.

 

[StiHacka]

too long, swapping to a medium frame...shortly.

I did not think there was such a thing as too long frames at the Monkey.

 

[kidwoo]

Let's talk about shimz instead.

 

[6thElement]

@Sandwich how tall are you to be sizing down?
Anyone ridden the 650beee version of these?

Wifey is considering a downhill bike for next season and they're on clearance. Shame her favourite rider Rachel is changing to another brand

 

[jstuhlman]

@Sandwich how tall are you to be sizing down?
Anyone ridden the 650beee version of these?

Wifey is considering a downhill bike for next season and they're on clearance. Shame her favourite rider Rachel is changing to another brand

DAMMIT MAN...you've said too much.

 

[4130biker]

DAMMIT MAN...you've said too much.

And now you've said too much. Wait, I've said too much. Aww Christ

 

[Sandwich]

@Sandwich how tall are you to be sizing down?
Anyone ridden the 650beee version of these?

Wifey is considering a downhill bike for next season and they're on clearance. Shame her favourite rider Rachel is changing to another brand

I'm 5'11", and basically completely average in every way. I had a large, went to a medium, I think I'm pretty happy with it unless I was going really fast, which because of my averageness, I am not. The rc4 is a worthwhile upgrade, the bottom out adjustment helps keep the frame from riding too low.

 

[6thElement]

She's a similar height and I'd thought the medium would probably the right size in that frame, thanks.

 

[Sandwich]

definitely. I'm running with a 28mm stem, FWIW.

 

[kickstand]

She's a similar height and I'd thought the medium would probably the right size in that frame, thanks.

I have a friend who has a 650b medium for sale. She liked the bike plenty but is getting a new bike for 2016 season. If interested let me know.

 

[6thElement]

What build? I priced a Saint/Zee/Boxxer Team build to ~$3800

edit: @Sandwich what brake adapter does it need at the back for a 203 rotor, is it a 203 front PM?

 

[kickstand]

What build? I priced a Saint/Zee/Boxxer Team build to ~$3800

It's a small, full saint build with 40 float and rc4. I thought it was a medium, but its a small. $4k or best.

 

[Sandwich]

I'll have to check. I think it's either no adapter or front. It's not big.

 

[6thElement]

Also, 30.9 or 31.6 seat post?

 

[Sandwich]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

why that isn't on the website, I don't know. I'll grab my calipers when I get home.

 

[6thElement]

Trust me, I'd looked all over for specs on seatpost and trying to work out what mount for a rear 203 rotor.

Appreciate the help.

 

[Sandwich]

It's 31.6, I had answered another person asking about it. Still need to look at the back end though.

 

[ska todd]

Seatpost = 31.6mm ID
Rear Brake = 203mm direct mount/post mount

-ska todd

 

[6thElement]

Thank you sir, get your web site people to add this to the specs!

 

[NuckaMan]

I'm thinking of purchasing the frame-only (PP has it for $999 right now, SM and XS only).

Looking at the geometry numbers...it seem to be built very long. The numbers for a GT Fury SM is more like MD from most manufacturers and XS seems to be more inline with SM.

Am I reading it right? Just wanted to make sure.

 

[NuckaMan]

Also, whats the verdict on the '14 frame? I'm not a expert DH'ers and I'm ok with 26". Just looking for a solid park bike and may do a race or 2 in 16' for fun.

 

[kidwoo]

They're solid frames. Can be built fairly light, really stiff, and plow over things really well. Pricepoint had some for cheap a while back.

And yes they're huge. I normally buy mediums and would have no reservations about getting a small one of those.

 

[NuckaMan]

Thanks kidwoo-

Huge is right...looking over the geo-numbers again, Fury in XS is almost touching MD numbers in manufacturers.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah when I was looking at those, xs was on the radar too.

It sounds like you already know the range of sizing you want. Just ignore the frame size designations and recommended size stuff. I always do.

 

[Sandwich]

Yes, they are vastly long and some robots even think they simply shifted the size guidelines up one.

I like long bikes and ride a medium with a 28mm stem. I also owned/rode a large, but it was too big, even with a 28mm stem. I suggest trying the longer size, if you like a stable bike, as I think it adds to the amount of control you have at high speed.

As for the frame, it's extremely stout, very well built, pedals fairly, and is well designed enough for easy cable routing/switching and shock adjustments. I only have two complaints, one is the derailleur hanger design makes it a bit of a challenge to line up the rear axle when you get a flat, and the rather linear rate of the shock really lends itself to an RC4 or similar shock with adjustable bottom out or progression. I really feel like the ride of my frame improved dramatically with the switch from a vanilla RC to an RC4. The frame absolutely destroys rough sections because of the linear-ish rate, but it can be a bit of a pig over jumps. The rc4 gives a bit more progression in the rear end to get a little bit more boost.

 

[kidwoo]

I like long bikes and ride a medium with a 28mm stem.

Your front tires last like 3 years don't they?

 

[Sandwich]

Your front tires last like 3 years don't they?

it's the kate gosselin of downhill bikes

 

[6thElement]

Definitely interested to see how the medium frame I have sat in a box compares next to my XL DHR...

 

[NuckaMan]

After much thought and crunching geometry numbers, I went ahead and bought the frame from Price Point, just picked it up today. Got it 90% built up tonight, just need a few more bits from my local LBS tomorrow and should be ready to ride tomorrow. Frame is pretty burly and lighter than I thought it was gonna be. Hoping I can get it in the 37lbs range, ready to ride. I went with the Small and yeah, it's definitely long, but I feel comfy in it.

Question, any tips on fishing the rear derailleur sheath through the rear triangle? After more than several attempts of fishing the sheath through, I simply just can't get it coming out the other side.

 

[kidwoo]

After more than several attempts of fishing the sheath through, I simply just can't get it coming out the other side.

I saw some diagrams in health class in 8th grade and I don't think that's supposed to happen.

 

[csermonet]

Definitely interested to see how the medium frame I have sat in a box compares next to my XL DHR...

according to my quick research, top tube length...

DW DHR xtra large: 630mm
GT Fury small: 631mm

I guess my large DHR is totally and completely unrideable now for someone who is my height.

as an aside, what are you doing with the DHR, selling?

 

[6thElement]

Fury is a surprise festivus gift for my wife, she's just under 6ft so hopefully it should work.

Reach and stack on the medium Fury are comparable to the Glory and the Demo so I'll just have to see how it builds up.

 

[Nick]

according to my quick research, top tube length...

DW DHR xtra large: 630mm
GT Fury small: 631mm

 

[csermonet]

pretty absurd huh? and I thought my large DHR was as relevant a 26inch bike you could get for someone my height (6'1)

 

[NuckaMan]

Finished the build tonight. Piece it together from various CL, eBay and LBS finds. Went together pretty smoothly.

With only a couple rides around the block....I know I have alot to work to do to get it dialed in.

 

[csermonet]

Finished the build tonight. Piece it together from various CL, eBay and LBS finds. Went together pretty smoothly.

With only a couple rides around the block....I know I have alot to work to do to get it dialed in.

care to post up the parts spec and weight? looks like a sick ride! what size and how tall are you? sorry for the 21 questions