29.76 lbs Trek Session 88
- Thread starter Cyklist
- Start date
really? I guess it depends on the bike, I had a friend who stripped his bike and lost about 250 grms in one go. It allso depends on the type of paint the bike has.
Dude, those aren't broke. He has his stem mounted to the brake arch to lower his riding position.JD at MSA with Ti stem bolts...
As it's been pointed out already the change from a 40 pound DH bike to a 30 pound DH bike would be a total change of about 4.2% for me. I'm just shy of 190 pounds + 10 pounds of gear (DOT helmet, Leatt, 5.10s, etc) + 40 pound bike = 240. Take 10 pounds off the bike and the total weight is 230. I don't see that making much of a difference just base on pure weight in terms of how much inertia the rider and bike has when reacting to a rock or root strike.
The guy who compared this to the difference between a trophy truck and a buggy needs to think about that one a little more. In that case the difference in weight between the two is much more drastic. I don't know for sure but I'd guess that the trophy truck weighs 2x as much as the buggy. Which one runs faster in the desert and by how much? Do you think it's because of the weight, the power, or power/weight?
Reducing unsprung weight should make the bike stick to the ground much better as the tires deflect up and over and back down quicker to follow the surface better. I don't know how much it can be felt though as I'm not baller enough to set up some super light wheels/tires on my DH bike just to find out but I've been tempted by it.
The guy who compared this to the difference between a trophy truck and a buggy needs to think about that one a little more. In that case the difference in weight between the two is much more drastic. I don't know for sure but I'd guess that the trophy truck weighs 2x as much as the buggy. Which one runs faster in the desert and by how much? Do you think it's because of the weight, the power, or power/weight?
Reducing unsprung weight should make the bike stick to the ground much better as the tires deflect up and over and back down quicker to follow the surface better. I don't know how much it can be felt though as I'm not baller enough to set up some super light wheels/tires on my DH bike just to find out but I've been tempted by it.
if you look at it in terms of numbers, 10 pounds isnt that much. But honestly... when I hear MX riders saying they dropped 5 pounds of their bikes its like they're riding on bike thats are on a whole new level, and we're talking about 250 pound bikes for MX... If you drop 10 pounds of a 40 pound bike, thats 25% lighter. Your own weight is easier to carry around cause your built for it, (unless your overweight then, thats your own problem) but when your carrying extra weight, which has to be moved around, up and down, over rocks and ruts, etc, then hell yeah it makes a difference!
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liking the mech mod
, contrary to what Mark said, I reckon the lower roller on your LG1 is out of harms way even more now it's not connected to the taco. your chainring not so much tho.. and from experience those E13 rings are not the strongest
. Is the boomerang noticably any more flexy at the top guide now? (had a look/poke at one of those carbocage guides on someone elses bike and was pretty shocking how much flex it had but the owner said it hadn't dropped a chain and I can't imagine yours being as flexy as that). looks like yours will pick up less mud now too, and living in Scotland, I'm always interested in chainguides that work flawlessly in mud. I'm planning on modding an old SRS to run a bash and taco but have maximum mud shedding design. should be a lot lighter than the original SRS too (will see how that works out soon tho. 
)couldn't see what you'd done to the shifter as I've no idea what a standard XTR looks like.
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Whose practice? Yours, or the guy who actually owns and rides the 30lb dh bike?
There is no magic number as to how much any bike has to weigh to work properly for everyone, just as there is no magic number for how much each person weighs. I feel sorry for 120 pounders who are told they can't ride anything that weighs less than 38lbs or it won't track properly or be stable at speed. They aren't bolting on extra weight on yz85's so that they weigh 245 like the 450f, are they?
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Awesome - job well done. Wish I had the $$ to do the same.
It all depends on where the weight comes off of. I bet the MXer that lost 5 pounds and thought the bike felt totally different was a very good rider who took off unsprung/rotating weight. I doubt a bike that lost 5 pounds from the body work would feel much different. How different does a MX bike feel after burning a gallon of fuel?
Unfortunately it is difficult to seperate the affect of mass reduction alone since it is usually coupled with other changes, whether it is a different style damper, a different amount of strength (for better or worse), a different amount of flex, etc.
Unfortunately it is difficult to seperate the affect of mass reduction alone since it is usually coupled with other changes, whether it is a different style damper, a different amount of strength (for better or worse), a different amount of flex, etc.
Bull**** dude!!!! It will hold line better and respond so much better to rider inputs as long as the Sus is set up properly!
I don't get why people think light bikes will not ride well and deflect everywhere! Remember you have 170plus of rider as well :
The problem is that people have preferences, and on forums it seems that people don't understand that preferences are choices, and they get them confused with facts. So then they fight on the forums believing that their preferences are indeed facts.
Truth is, some people like light bikes, some people don't. My v10 is 40 lbs, and I dig it. I don't like bikes that are too light as I find them a bit skitterish. But, thats my preference.
I do think this trend of stupid light DH frames is similar to the ebbs and flows of stupid trends that hit all sports, similar to the travel wars of the early 2000s.
Truth is, some people like light bikes, some people don't. My v10 is 40 lbs, and I dig it. I don't like bikes that are too light as I find them a bit skitterish. But, thats my preference.
I do think this trend of stupid light DH frames is similar to the ebbs and flows of stupid trends that hit all sports, similar to the travel wars of the early 2000s.
"Who Moved My Cheese?" by Spencer Johnson, MD
some of you need to ride a rigid for a while before talking about getting "bounced" around on a full race rig.
what he said
Agreed!
I think thats just it, I prefer a bike to be more numb feeling and less skitish in the rocks as well. Doesnt mean Its faster just less ADHD.
Good way to put it!
To steezy your right being able TO PICK A LINE on a hard tail makes you quite a bit faster as its rocking all over the place on stuff and will infact make you hone your skills of floating on pedals as well.
I have buddies who are fast on HTs and get em on a DS they freaking fly.
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I do not care how much it weighs, it looks badass.
I heard loctite is heavy. Maybe you ought to get some super light weight elmers.
Unless you ride your bike with your arms rigid and your a$$ planted on the seat, the whole bike is "unsprung mass", attached to a secondary set of unsprung mass (bikes suspension).
Its pretty simple... pros and cons... no right or wrong...unless you race, then the clock is right.
A heavy bike/vehicle will feel smoother to the rider esp in rough, absorb big hits better etc Basically the bikes weight acts as a low pass filter with the bikes suspension, the heavier the bike (or vehicle) the less instantaneous forces are exerted on the rider (ie less rider fatigue), conversely, the lighter the bike the more trail chatter the rider will feel...
A light bike will handle just about everything else better.
Good thing decent DH courses have a good bit of rough stuff in them other wise "DH" would soon be done on carbon road frames with xc tires.
Re trophy truck anology? the fastest between the trophy truck and the buggy is the dirt bike, but that's no where near as cool as 1khp of V8 and 3ft of suspension plowing through the dessert with brute force...
In F1, when doing time laps, they run the cars with less fuel to lighten them up. I have a couple of friends that ride MX almost full time and they tell me its nicer to ride with less fuel cause of the weight. Keep in mind as well that the fuel is carried on the upper part of the bike, hence adding and posibly moving the center of gravity when it is filled and then consumed. So yeah, weight wise, its makes a huge difference, at least to the pros or guys that run a lot.
One of the things I most liked about the Honda Gboxx bike was the fact that the concentration of most of the weight of the bike was right were you put your legs. The center of gravity on that bike must have been insanely confortably making a real stable bike (no matter who you are). This is one of the primary reasons I think Gboxx bikes should be more popular. I have to admit though I never ridden one, but, having a rear wheel which doesnt have to carry the weight of the rear derailer and a couple of other things, and having that weight just under my feet, almost makes me fuzzy inside! haha
1st I like what you said! Explanation was good of what we are refering to as far as deflection and the bike all over in rougher stuff.
As far as the bikes last time I checked Herbst, stewar, gordon etc were putting up faster times and the bikes/quads get the hell outa the way. The TTs are putting it over 130 mph through the desert of mexico, then the class 1 buggies are killing it as well.
Trust me when I say we all look out for the TTs, those things are just ANGRY and devastate stuff infront of them at stupid fast speeds... GOd I love that sport. I just sold my class 1500 prerunner 3 months ago (no high speed here in Boise) and my 7U several years back.
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Awesome bike!!! I'd love to ride something like that, I bet it's incredibly fun.
Only one 4 wheeled vehicle has won the overall baja1000 since 1973
Not sure about other desert races... I guess it depends on the course... I like dirt bikes
(ps all my desert race info is from dust to glory, since that movie running the baja1000 in some way has been added to the "to do" list)
Nice. I'm not an anti weight weenie like so many guys here.haha But I must call BS on something. Well...not BS...just cheating. A real DH bike must have a chain guard of some sort. Incomplete build! But nice.
Dust to glory rocks love the TT getting sideways and slamming into the RV!Only one 4 wheeled vehicle has won the overall baja1000 since 1973
Not sure about other desert races... I guess it depends on the course... I like dirt bikes
(ps all my desert race info is from dust to glory, since that movie running the baja1000 in some way has been added to the "to do" list)
2010 san felipe 250 truck avg 56mph mx 53mph
08 1000 mx by .8mph over truck
09 same mx by 2 mph overall and on the 250 - 500 stuff the trucks have it. I assume its refueling, swapping parts, driveshafts, tires, etc that go into play against the trucks because actual run time the bikes get passed as well as everyhting in there way. So run time trucks have it and overall with pit stops and repairs bikes bikes have alot less maintenance and faster to repair and less tire changes so the bikes have it.
So yeah in the end in the longer haul the bikes have it!
Needs a spoiler
I agree with you for the most part. I wasn't thinking of the entire bike as unsprung mass with the rider suspended. But as you pointed out the light bike will still excel on everything but the high frequency chatter as it can be moved up, over, and around lower speed bumps. This of course will need a change in technique for someone who is used to plowing. I'll still argue that it might be more fatiguing for the rider on a light bike but overall grip will be improved as the tires will stay in contact better if the rider is up to the task.
If you've seen my other posts about gear boxes and the advantages of moving weight off the end of the swingarm you'll know that I agree with you.
The point I was trying to get at with the fuel in the tank and the frame weight etc is that some people here are trying to say that they had a bike that weighed xx lbs and it didn't ride well but then they added 2 pounds and it was much better. The issue I have with that is in how they added two pounds, they didn't say so we're left guessing. I doubt if you just added two pounds of weight in the top tube it would really feel that much better. If you added two pounds with 2 ply tires and DH tubes and then dropped your tire psi from 40 to 25 then you did a lot more than add 2 pounds in terms of bike feel.
It's just straight up hilarious that people actually think that weight is a good thing for a peddle bike. This seems to be the only sport where people don't understand that more weight means more resistance. I promise you, if any manufacturer in the world could make a perfectly weightless bike, they certainly would. The only reason DH bikes weigh as much as they do is for strength, it's not because weight actually helps you, which is a hilarious concept if you know anything at all about physics.
To the guys saying "More weight means more momentum and you go through rocks and rough spots better!", you're not exactly wrong, but that is the ONLY pro to more weight, and in light of the endless amounts of pros that comes with reduced weight, it's just plain silly to claim that one should actually avoid lighter weights.
Think about this logically for a moment, less weight means less resistance. That should be all anyone needs to hear for ideas to start going off in their heads about how much better they could ride with a lighter bike. This means that EVERYTHING you do on the bike requires less effort. You could hold your speed longer and slow down later for corners and other obstacles, you will gain speed far easier drastically improving your starts and your exits from corners, the pros are absolutely endless with lighter weight because every single thing you can imagine becomes exponentially easier to accomplish as weight drops.
Another thing everyone is failing to take into consideration is power to weight ratio. A rule of racing any type of machine is that your overall power means nothing if the guy next to you has a better power to weight ratio. Lowering your weight means a better power to weight ratio. In a man powered sport this is a huge deal.
To the guys saying "More weight means more momentum and you go through rocks and rough spots better!", you're not exactly wrong, but that is the ONLY pro to more weight, and in light of the endless amounts of pros that comes with reduced weight, it's just plain silly to claim that one should actually avoid lighter weights.
Think about this logically for a moment, less weight means less resistance. That should be all anyone needs to hear for ideas to start going off in their heads about how much better they could ride with a lighter bike. This means that EVERYTHING you do on the bike requires less effort. You could hold your speed longer and slow down later for corners and other obstacles, you will gain speed far easier drastically improving your starts and your exits from corners, the pros are absolutely endless with lighter weight because every single thing you can imagine becomes exponentially easier to accomplish as weight drops.
Another thing everyone is failing to take into consideration is power to weight ratio. A rule of racing any type of machine is that your overall power means nothing if the guy next to you has a better power to weight ratio. Lowering your weight means a better power to weight ratio. In a man powered sport this is a huge deal.
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Best first post evahr.
Impressive stuff
FWIW though I'm not that heavy on gear, but found the XTR cranks flexy, and I bent (twisted the axle so they weren't 180° opposed any more) them within a couple of months. I now run Saints, despite being one of the biggest weight geeks out there.
Also I don't think I'd run my chain device without a bash'r on it these days - I used to be happy to do that, but courses are getting rougher, and my BB is getting lower - certainly I smash it off of everything at the moment!
Oh, and use a dura ace mech - 165g stock versus 180g for that xtr. Been running them for years, never had a problem.
FWIW though I'm not that heavy on gear, but found the XTR cranks flexy, and I bent (twisted the axle so they weren't 180° opposed any more) them within a couple of months. I now run Saints, despite being one of the biggest weight geeks out there.
Also I don't think I'd run my chain device without a bash'r on it these days - I used to be happy to do that, but courses are getting rougher, and my BB is getting lower - certainly I smash it off of everything at the moment!
Oh, and use a dura ace mech - 165g stock versus 180g for that xtr. Been running them for years, never had a problem.
Oh and you want one of these rather than a Hope:
http://www.extralite.com/Products/ultraclamp_anglo.htm
http://www.extralite.com/Products/ultraclamp_anglo.htm
That's heavy,this is more intressting
http://www.b-t-p.de/B-T-P_Team/Produkte/Sattelstutze_Zubehor/Sattelstutze/R-Sattel/klemme_3g.html
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That is a huge difference, there is NO compromise in strength using less fuel. To have an ultra light DH bike sacrifices have to be made in build materials. A MX bike will hold up the same with or without a full tank, a DH bike made lighter wont.
you can save even more weight if you put the White Brothers Grove Race on there
