[IH8Rice]

went to a gun show yesterday to find a handgun that i liked and that felt good to handle.
i think ive narrowed it down to 3 .40 S&W guns that i was curious about and wanted to know other's thoughts on them. its not so much for home protection (which it also will be) but really just for fun

1- Springfield XD (or XDM) 4" barrel.

2-Sig SP2022

3.Walther PPQ

im also still torn on a Ruger 10/22 with some fun accessories instead of a handgun.

 

[rockofullr]

Colt 1911

 

[sanjuro]

Isn't 1911's rather hard to rebuild?

I was watching American Guns and the hot chick rebuilt hers. I think the host even made the comment that this isn't like one of your 6 piece, polymer pistols.

 

[sanjuro]

P.S., 9mm's are cheaper, and I think with the right kind of defense round, you will have plenty of stopping power.

 

[IH8Rice]

I was watching American Guns and the hot chick rebuilt hers.

shes like 16 dude

P.S., 9mm's are cheaper, and I think with the right kind of defense round, you will have plenty of stopping power.

ammo price isnt a huge concern for me since my fiance's father reloads all his ammo. yeah the .40 will be a bit more expensive but nothing to worry about. if ammo price was a concern, the 10/22 would be a no brainer (though obviously not for home defense)

 

[rockofullr]

Isn't 1911's rather hard to rebuild?

I was watching American Guns and the hot chick rebuilt hers. I think the host even made the comment that this isn't like one of your 6 piece, polymer pistols.

Never owned one but I assume it can't be any harder than a fork rebuild. Just cause a blond bimbo thinks it's tough doesn't mean much.

 

[sanjuro]

shes like 16 dude

Last week the pedophile standard was set, and a 16 year old girl is definitely not it.

ammo price isnt a huge concern for me since my fiance's father reloads all his ammo. yeah the .40 will be a bit more expensive but nothing to worry about. if ammo price was a concern, the 10/22 would be a no brainer (though obviously not for home defense)

I don't shoot enough to justify a 22. I wanted one gun which would be relatively cheap to practice with but was adequate for home protection.

9mm Glock seems to fit the bill.

 

[IH8Rice]

Last week the pedophile standard was set, and a 16 year old girl is definitely not it.

I don't shoot enough to justify a 22. I wanted one gun which would be relatively cheap to practice with but was adequate for home protection.

9mm Glock seems to fit the bill.

8 is the new 16 i guess?


I dont want a 9mm Glock. i want one of those 3 guns i listed

 

[sanjuro]

8 is the new 16 i guess?


I dont want a 9mm Glock. i want one of those 3 guns i listed

I played the same game when it was recommended to me to get a 40S&W. 9 seems fine with me.

I would get a Sig, personally, but I am no expert.

 

[rockofullr]

I would get a Sig, personally, but I am no expert.

Good call.

 

[TKCastle]

Shot a few XD's even the first Croatian before the design was bought by Springfield. Great gun for first time users since it has the cocked and loaded chamber indicator. Really love the 5" model for the increased sight radius.

Sig 2022. Never been a fan of poly sig's, the alloy framed sigs just felt nice and got better with age. 2022 is a good gun, I shot the 9 and 40, liked the 9 micky mouse better. I remember seeing a quality recoil rod a spring when I stripped it for visual. Cant remember. Decocker is a funny reach but for fun you'll rarely use it.

Walther PPQ. I always liked Walther guns. I had a german made p99 in OD green(never sell your guns) 40. Shot great only draw back was the rail accepted Walther lights only. I also had a chance to shoot a match with their QA trigger years ago and I have to say this leaps ahead of Glock triggers. Short reset and consistent shot to shot. If they are carrying this over to the PPQ then this will be my choice of the three.

You picked two strikers and one hammer fired. I always preferred hammers but thats me. Best to go out and shoot all three if you can.

 

[IH8Rice]

Shot a few XD's even the first Croatian before the design was bought by Springfield. Great gun for first time users since it has the cocked and loaded chamber indicator. Really love the 5" model for the increased sight radius.

Sig 2022. Never been a fan of poly sig's, the alloy framed sigs just felt nice and got better with age. 2022 is a good gun, I shot the 9 and 40, liked the 9 micky mouse better. I remember seeing a quality recoil rod a spring when I stripped it for visual. Cant remember. Decocker is a funny reach but for fun you'll rarely use it.

Walther PPQ. I always liked Walther guns. I had a german made p99 in OD green(never sell your guns) 40. Shot great only draw back was the rail accepted Walther lights only. I also had a chance to shoot a match with their QA trigger years ago and I have to say this leaps ahead of Glock triggers. Short reset and consistent shot to shot. If they are carrying this over to the PPQ then this will be my choice of the three.

You picked two strikers and one hammer fired. I always preferred hammers but thats me. Best to go out and shoot all three if you can.

thanks. it seems you like all 3, which is good

i know the walther uses a hammer and the other two dont, but i was just judging them by feel of handling the gun. hammer or striker, it doesnt matter to me.

 

[Mr Jones]

Never been fond of poly sigs as well, but I've shot all 3 of those more than a few times in the past year. I think the XD/XDM are ok weapons but definitely not in my top 10. The sig 2022 and walther are great guns. TKC mentioned the awesome trigger setup. I want to add the grip has a replaceable heel to really get that "custom" feel. I like that.. but the whole "walther only" tac rail accessory thing is hokey to me; so of the 3 you listed, my pick is the Sig p2022. Straight shooting, comfortable grip, and with the 2011 trigger group, it's even better than its predecessors of the same model.

 

[IH8Rice]

well it seems my fiance's father is trying to steer me towards a 9mm or .45 since he can supply me with "all the ammo i would ever need." grrr

 

[Transcend]

I think with the right kind of defense round, you will have plenty of stopping power.

You mean black talons?

 

[IH8Rice]

You mean black talons?

i would think the best defense round would be a round house kick.

 

[sanjuro]

You mean black talons?

With any +P hollowpoint, you will do fine.

This guy seems to have something to say about ammo: Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm

 

[sanjuro]

well it seems my fiance's father is trying to steer me towards a 9mm or .45 since he can supply me with "all the ammo i would ever need." grrr

See! Your future father-in-law and I told you!

 

[Mr Jones]

well it seems my fiance's father is trying to steer me towards a 9mm or .45 since he can supply me with "all the ammo i would ever need." grrr

Well, if that's the case. I'd like to recommend the Sig P220 or P226. Have over 15k down the pipe of my P226 that I carried as my main for 20 years. Still shoots as well as the first day at the range. Just sent it out to the Sig Armory for the new trigger group and new springs. Can't wait to get her back.

I also have a P220 classic with over 5k down the pipe. With 2 stage buffer spring its uber controllable even under the hottest loads.

 

[IH8Rice]

See! Your future father-in-law and I told you!

he's crazy though

Well, if that's the case. I'd like to recommend the Sig P220 or P226. Have over 15k down the pipe of my P226 that I carried as my main for 20 years. Still shoots as well as the first day at the range. Just sent it out to the Sig Armory for the new trigger group and new springs. Can't wait to get her back.

I also have a P220 classic with over 5k down the pipe. With 2 stage buffer spring its uber controllable even under the hottest loads.

why not stick with the P2022? because its a polymer? the 4" barrel on that gun is what felt good to me but i will look at the P226 when i get a chance.

 

[Mr Jones]

why not stick with the P2022? because its a polymer?

yes...

Never been fond of poly sigs...

 

[IH8Rice]

didnt get a handgun yet but did get a 10/22 for teh cheap at Cabelas....just had to wait 6hrs for everything


gettin the lady into shootin too

 

[chillindrdude]

i disliked greatly the DA pulls on Sigs...as well as their higher bore height relation to grip. i couldn't get myself to shoot them consistently well.

tho pricey and some would argue just as bad DA/SA pull, i really like the HK handguns. USPs fit my hand well and was a natural point. the P30 series handguns are in two words, "fcuking awesome". customizeable ergonomics, retained the grip angles of the USP, but trigger was improved and a better rail attached. legendary HK reliability.

this is my goto home defense, IDPA/USPSA, and conceal carry gun.

 

[gonefirefightin]

Isn't 1911's rather hard to rebuild?

you should never have to rebuild a 1911

 

[IH8Rice]

i disliked greatly the DA pulls on Sigs...as well as their higher bore height relation to grip.

tho pricey and some would argue just as bad DA/SA pull, i really like the HK handguns the P30 series handguns are in two words, "fcuking awesome".

grr. this doesnt make my search any easier.
i wish stores would allow you to test fire the guns before purchase.

 

[RUFUS]

I am a SIG whore. My favorite, and the .40 is comfortable and accurate. The guys that I worked with overseas carried nothing but and enjoyed them.

I would love the HK though. Those are my two picks.

 

[Mr Jones]

i disliked greatly the DA pulls on Sigs...as well as their higher bore height relation to grip. i couldn't get myself to shoot them consistently well.

have you test fired a Sig with the 2011 trigger group? That strange progressive DA pull that exists on many sigs that aren't broken in yet doesn't exist anymore. Just a consistent smooth action. Got my German made p226 back from the Sig Armory 2 days ago.

UN FRIGGIN BELIEVABLE how linear and smoother the DA pull is. The SA pull is light and crisp.

 

[chillindrdude]

maybe i will...i've been looking to unload my springfield armory 1911....i just don't shoot it much. gonna check out a sig in .45acp as a dedicated suppressor host.


thanks

 

[IH8Rice]

ive found the gun i think i want online for significantly cheaper then stores offer it for.
has anyone had any experience ordering from places like Cheaper Then Dirt? i know i obviously have to go through a FFL dealer to complete the purchase but was just curious if anyone has bought a handgun online

 

[baca262]

well it seems my fiance's father is trying to steer me towards a 9mm or .45 since he can supply me with "all the ammo i would ever need." grrr

well then get a tec-9 or an uzi!!!1!





jk

 

[ultraNoob]

ive found the gun i think i want online for significantly cheaper then stores offer it for.
has anyone had any experience ordering from places like Cheaper Then Dirt? i know i obviously have to go through a FFL dealer to complete the purchase but was just curious if anyone has bought a handgun online

Never purchased a firearm online, but I buy from Cheaper Than Dirt pretty often. Nothing but good things to say about that site/catalog. Great deals on ammo too.

 

[IH8Rice]

Never purchased a firearm online, but I buy from Cheaper Than Dirt pretty often. Nothing but good things to say about that site/catalog. Great deals on ammo too.

thats the site i was looking to purchase the handgun from. they are a good $175-200 cheaper then most stores around here. even with the FFL transfer fee, it still comes out cheaper

 

[MikeD]

Glock 19 or 26. SIG 229 or 239 if you just have to have something more hefty he-man metal. (What I carry, but it's what 'they' make me carry.)

.45/.357/.40 vs 9mm is a red herring as I've said many, many times.

Edit: Did you look at the S&W M&P series? Never shot one but they allegedly hold up in real use conditions as well as a Glock or a SIG, and offer some customizability of grip/ergos. Cannot speak to that myself, though. I see no reason for anyone to own anything other than a Glock 9mm as a primary if their intent is to carry a gun to fight with. If it's for fun/fondling/hobby, all bets are off and shoot what you like and can afford.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

... Did you look at the S&W M&P series? Never shot one but they allegedly hold up in real use conditions as well as a Glock or a SIG, and offer some customizability of grip/ergos...

If I were in the market for a plastic weapon I'd go for a M&P 9mm short frame, but I have other priorities and no current need for an arsenal.

 

[IH8Rice]

Glock 19 or 26. SIG 229 or 239 if you just have to have something more hefty he-man metal. (What I carry, but it's what 'they' make me carry.)

.45/.357/.40 vs 9mm is a red herring as I've said many, many times.

Edit: Did you look at the S&W M&P series? Never shot one but they allegedly hold up in real use conditions as well as a Glock or a SIG, and offer some customizability of grip/ergos. Cannot speak to that myself, though. I see no reason for anyone to own anything other than a Glock 9mm as a primary if their intent is to carry a gun to fight with.

i thought i wanted a polymer frame until i picked up a Beretta M9A1 and 92A1 and was in love with it..more so over the metal Sig's. if i can find a few more bucks to spend, i might get the Beretta over a polymer frame

the M&P 9mm with the included large grip did feel fantastic to hold and im just trying to find a store that had both the M&P 9 and the SP2022 from Sig to try them out together. of the polymer guns, these were the two that i liked.

honestly, i know Glocks are well regarded but they dont appeal to me at all. in looks and in feel.

what is a "red herring?" and why are you sold on the Glocks?

 

[MikeD]

Looks and feel don't help you kill people. (Ergonomics can be considered, but only if you're out of the normal size range for an adult male or maybe are afflicted with left-handedness.)

The Glock is lighter, simpler, and more reliable than pretty much any other gun. Given that it's also cheaper, why bother looking elsewhere? If aesthetics or "having something different" are a consideration, you're a gun enthusiast/fetishist more than a fighter. "Fitting my hand" is also, again, only a consideration for enthusiasts. Combat grip and combat conditions don't allow for "feel." As an acquaintance once said, "Unless it feels like a c-cup in my hand I could give a ****." Grip angle's somewhat different with Glock if you're accustomed to another gun, but once you're trained on it for a week you're set for point-shooting.

Stock Glock sights kinda suck, but that's changeable easily and cheaply at purchase.

A red herring is a distraction. The caliber debate is moot. To kill humans, 9mm does the job of penetrating the body. With pistol calibers that's about all you're going to get. "Stopping power" does with any reasonable handgun round; the cavitation is too minimal regardless. If you hit someone in a critical organ with a 9mm, good to go. If you shoot him in the arm with a .40 or a 9mm, you have an arm wound, even if it's marginally bigger or smaller. Do, however, use good hollowpoint ammo.

Potentially, the other calibers penetrate body armor better, I suppose, if that's a concern. Don't know much about that and don't think it applies to most of us.

Shoot repeatedly in chest or face until the target is down; that's the only answer with any pistol caliber.

If you buy a Beretta I'll shoot you myself. There are so many things wrong with that gun I can't begin to say.

If you like metal guns, go SIG. 239 is a nice little gun for carry.

 

[IH8Rice]

Looks and feel don't help you kill people. (Ergonomics can be considered, but only if you're out of the normal size range for an adult male or maybe are afflicted with left-handedness.)

The Glock is lighter, simpler, and more reliable than pretty much any other gun. Given that it's also cheaper, why bother looking elsewhere? If aesthetics or "having something different" are a consideration, you're a gun enthusiast/fetishist more than a fighter. "Fitting my hand" is also, again, only a consideration for enthusiasts. Combat grip and combat conditions don't allow for "feel." As an acquaintance once said, "Unless it feels like a c-cup in my hand I could give a ****." Grip angle's somewhat different with Glock if you're accustomed to another gun, but once you're trained on it for a week you're set for point-shooting.


A red herring is a distraction. The caliber debate is moot. To kill humans, 9mm does the job of penetrating the body. With pistol calibers that's about all you're going to get. "Stopping power" does with any reasonable handgun round; the cavitation is too minimal regardless. If you hit someone in a critical organ with a 9mm, good to go. If you shoot him in the arm with a .40 or a 9mm, you have an arm wound, even if it's marginally bigger or smaller. Do, however, use good hollowpoint ammo.

Shoot repeatedly in chest or face until the target is down; that's the only answer with any pistol caliber.

If you buy a Beretta I'll shoot you myself. There are so many things wrong with that gun I can't begin to say.

If you like metal guns, go SIG. 239 is a nice little gun for carry.

well since im not going into combat, i think i want a gun that feels comfortable to hold. although the pistol will also be used for home defense (and target shooting,) i still want something that feels great as soon as i pick it up....i am a gun enthusiast, so finding something that feels good is a selling point.
i tried a XD and XDM and they didnt seem to feel/fit as good as the Sig p250C and M&P 9 that i tried that day.

i know the caliber debate is a long one and everyone has their opinion and im sure enough 9mm bullets in someone will do the trick for home defense. especially with the right ammo. i had originally thought i wanted a .40 but after seeing the price difference and talking with my father-in-law, i am indeed looking at a 9mm.

what particular things are "wrong" with the beretta that you dont like? did you use a Beretta as a sidearm when you served?

the P239 is a bit shorter then i wanted. i was looking for something with a 4" barrel like the MP9, SP2022 or even maybe a P250c

 

[MikeD]

229 DA/SA is what I [have to] carry. Good gun in your size range. 228 is also great and a hair slimmer/lighter if you can find one in good shape. The most recent 229R, however, can mount a light which is a "home defense" asset. I know nothing of the more recent SIG models myself.

More ammo for training is smart economy in guns. It's hours on the range that count, not the marginally larger or smaller chunk of lead hitting your target so long as you're in 38/9mm and up.

"Home defense" is a fight. If you want a tool for a fight, get a tool for the fight and train for the fight. Like I said, Glock is the best combo--the best gun for the least price. If you must, however, have a SIG, they're good guns if you wanna pay for them.

The Beretta is a mechanical POS. It breaks often, especially the locking blocks, and the way the barrel is not fully enclosed by the slide leads to ruptures out the top of the barrel when **** goes wrong. I knew it only as the M9 service pistol. The safety/decock arrangement on the slide is a magnificent piece of horse****, but I am sure the civilian versions can be configured how you like.

Carry guns should not have manual external safeties, now that we don't need to carry cocked single-actions by technological or US logisitical necessity. Even if you keep it in a drawer at night, I still see no reason to have one; it should be stored in a proper holster with the trigger securely covered.

Unlike many, though, DA/SA doesn't bother me even though I'm a Glock fan.

 

[IH8Rice]

the P229 is great but its a bit more then i want to spend honestly (almost 2x as much as the polymer frames im looking at.) all of the ones i am looking at though do have a picattiny rail for a light (or laserz,) which is what i am looking for.

i do see home defense can be a fight and i do plan on spending as much time at the range as i can to be as comfortable with whatever my purchase is.

thats good to know about your experience with the M9. i hadnt considered it until i picked it up but still was leaning towards the S&W or Sig. the M9A1 and 92A1 isnt too much different from your service pistol too. have you seen the barrels have catastrophic failures like you described?

the two pistols i was looking at dont have external safetys. the 2022 does have a decocking lever though which is nice.


i do wish stores would let you test the guns out but i know that doesnt make much sense for them. ill take a look at Glock 19 again though

 

[MikeD]

Like I said, heard good things about the S&W but only laid a hand on one once, never shot it. Might be just what you want.

Never saw the M9 blow up but saw a barrel in the armory once. Ugh. Seen plenty of locking blocks break, though.

You can't rent various models at a range somewhere?