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5th elemt rebound adj. for jumping

schweino1

schweino1

Monkey
Dec 6, 2004
337
0
ok... heres the thing...

i keep landing in my face or in my back everytime i try to take a dirt jump on my sort of DH bike...

its a VP-free with a 5th elemt and a zocchi 66RC (170mm)...

i like the rebound to be slow....and i think thats not the proper adj. for jumping... so:

how do i have to adjust it for "jumpy" situations...? (jumps with DJ lids and trannys)
 
dfinn

dfinn

Turbo Monkey
Jul 24, 2003
2,129
0
SL, UT
schweino1 said:
ok... heres the thing...

i keep landing in my face or in my back everytime i try to take a dirt jump on my sort of DH bike...

its a VP-free with a 5th elemt and a zocchi 66RC (170mm)...

i like the rebound to be slow....and i think thats not the proper adj. for jumping... so:

how do i have to adjust it for "jumpy" situations...? (jumps with DJ lids and trannys)
Click to expand...
i think "get a hardtail" is going to be the main answer you get
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,664
1,155
NORCAL is the hizzle
schweino1 said:
i keep landing in my face or in my back
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So you are either doing an endo or looping out? If it was one or the other we might be able to help with some set up tips, but this sounds more like technique.

But here are some thoughts anyway: The vp-free has a falling initial compression rate. That means it has RISING REBOUND at the top of the stroke. That means the rear end gives you an extra boost off the lip. This is one reason the free is very different from the v-10 (which has a different rate curve and is meant to stick to the ground, like any good DH race bike). If you are not aware of the rising rebound, the vp-free can feel like an endo-matic machine, in part because your fork doesn't have rising rebound and your front end doesn't get quite the same boost.

Understanding how the rising rebound works makes a big difference for me when it comes to jumping on a free. You just don't have to pull up the rear end as hard as you might think.

Slowing down the rebound will slow down the boost effect. It will make the rear end feel more balanced with your fork and should help prevent endos and getting bucked off on harder landings. I've come to like the boost effect and have adjusted my technique to take advantage of it. It was sure rocking this weekend in Whistler!
 
schweino1

schweino1

Monkey
Dec 6, 2004
337
0
with this setup, over the bars only..... really nasty ones...

god bless full face helmets
 
ncrider

ncrider

Turbo Monkey
Aug 15, 2004
1,564
0
Los Angeles
with all do respect, just go out and ride MORE!! Get used to how your bike is setup and adjust accordingly. There is no secret shock setup for jumping. Your body language in the air can more than compromise for any shock.

Case in point, My 5th (on my vpfree) blew half way down a run at BB last summer(RIP BB). Did I pull over and have a tech talk for an hour? No, I just adjusted for the no rebound pog effect and stll hit all th little jumps fine.
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,664
1,155
NORCAL is the hizzle
ncrider said:
with all do respect, just go out and ride MORE!! Get used to how your bike is setup and adjust accordingly. There is no secret shock setup for jumping. Your body language in the air can more than compromise for any shock.

Case in point, My 5th (on my vpfree) blew half way down a run at BB last summer(RIP BB). Did I pull over and have a tech talk for an hour? No, I just adjusted for the no rebound pog effect and stll hit all th little jumps fine.
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Well, I don't think you're really showing the respect that's due. It's both. Set up can have a big impact and there's nothing wrong with trying to learn more. But of course skills are important.

Yeesh. Any time someone asks a technique question, there's always some clown that says "shut up and ride." It's pretty tiresome.
 
ncrider

ncrider

Turbo Monkey
Aug 15, 2004
1,564
0
Los Angeles
OGRipper said:
Set up can have a big impact and there's nothing wrong with trying to learn more. But of course skills are important.
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True but, skill is far more important than bike setup. Sanjay proves that.



OGRipper said:
Yeesh. Any time someone asks a technique question, there's always some clown that says "shut up and ride." It's pretty tiresome.
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How else are you going to learn? That's some of the best advice you can give. It's not like we can see him jump, see the jumps he rides or check his setup. We can e-spec what we "think" is best for him all day and thats great, but even with a "perfect" setup, if you don't have skill you won't jump or do anything right. I'm not trying to come off like an ass and say "shut up and ride." First of all I never wrote that and secondly I'm just trying to help here.
 
B

bighitfsr

Guest
"with this setup, over the bars only..... really nasty ones..."

Slow the rebound down and also reduce the platform pressure and compression damping. You may even want a softer spring for the rear shock.

If the rear end is setup too stiff with fast rebound its going to kick you into a nose dive off a steep DJ lip. I tend to adjust my forks to run about 10% sag and run about 35% sag in the rear end. Basically I run the rear a lot softer than the front. I find that this setup gives me little or no kick from the rear end and still lets me pump the forks for a bit of extra height off the lip.

I find its pretty easy to bring the front end down in the air and much harder to bring it up so your best off with a setup that will take off with the front higher than it needs to be and then correcting for this with body language or a dab on rear brake than vice versa.

Also having more suspension travel in the rear than up front will help with this. My bike has a 7.5" shiver up front and a 9.25" FSR/Avalanche DHS rear end. Its very predictable in the air although lighter forks would help. I tend to nose dive more than loop out and my setup really helps with this tendancy (softer rear end with more travel).
 
J

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
I used to always have problems with nose-diving when jumping my DH bike. I played a lot with setup and would still have issues. I got my shock (fox RC) worked on by Push and that controlled it a bit more, but I would still randomly mess up.

Now I think I have it under control. I just stopped thinking about it. My biggest problem was coming into the jumps afraid I'd mess up and then trying too hard to clear them. If I just run into it without thinking, my body works naturally. Also, I don't know how much experience you have jumping or how steep these jumps are, but moving in the air helps- just a little bar turn or tweak keeps you from doing a total dead sailor.
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,664
1,155
NORCAL is the hizzle
Metal said:
So are you saying that I can't set-up a bike properly. That hurts.
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Hahahaha! Yah you really had the rebound dialed on your Sea Otter jump bike!

ncrider, I wasn't quoting you, my point was just that when someone comes here asking for set up advice, it's not very helpful to tell them to ride more.

For most new riders, a bike that is not set up correctly (or at least, within the ballpark) can create obstacles to learning. Yeah you can ride with a blown shock but if you tried to learn with one, it would be more difficult than with one that is properly set up. You could still do it, but it would probably take longer, be less fun, and the rider might learn weird habits to compensate.

Like I said, I don't see anything wrong with someone trying to learn more about setting up their bike...but it should go without saying that is subject to them spending plenty of time riding.
 
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