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(a belated) merry xmas to me (contains fiber)

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,364
194
Vancouver
Really nice...

Couple questions:

-IS the rear hub fixed or does it have a freewheel? How's the engagement on it if it does have a freewheel?

-Any updates on who's servicing Rohloff hubs locally or is it still Rohloff USA? (if they're still around)
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
The Lahars have a faultless rep,as good as steel frames so I think you can easilly trust it. It's about five times as thick as need be.
Oh yeah sorry but I also hate you as I'm still waiting for my next one because of you.
PM me if you wish to ask anything about set up etc.
Forks will look hot,not a Boxxer fan but they're the best I've ever seen.
 

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
For each and every person who is going to say "Arrgggh!#@! Carbon!#! Don't trust it, it will sneak around your house while you're asleep and kick your dog, then snap because you got a scratch on it and stab you in the spine." etc...

Aaron reports that there are still Lahar MV8 (the previous iteration of this chassis) frames kicking around the New Zealand national series that are now 7-8 seasons old, that started life off as pro bikes and have been passed down like some sort of enchanted sword/ring/amulet/etc ever since. It's the non-snap-and-stab kind of carbon that these puppies are made of.
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
i dont trust it, eaither should you..but then again..it's nice..to some degree..
Ignorance is not bliss, perhaps?

But really, this frame is insanely strong. One rider hit a tree/rock/whatever (I don't remember) head on so hard that the internals shot out of his 40 but the frame was fine.
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
i dont trust it, eaither should you..but then again..it's nice..to some degree..
It's by far one of the strongest and longest lasting frames made. And if you some how manage to gouge the carbon badly enough that it concerns you it can be repaired.
 

.Pit Steelers.

Nostradumbass
Jun 18, 2006
1,429
0
Hawaii
Im just speaking for myself..no one eles....sure maybe it is strong, it just seems like it whould be prone to cracking or something... much faster then your average bike.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Pit steelers get on your frail fuse of an alluminium bike and piss off,it's strong tough and whatever other word you need to here. it's lived up to sponsored riders thrashing the **** out of it,having tantrums and throwing them down rock gardens and cliffs. I don't think any have needed repairing.With the same treatment an Alli frame would be gouged,torn or cracked. Now either join technoligy or go back to your cave but stop spouting your ingnorant factless crap in this thread for the other neandertolls(sp?) to run with. Carbon like steel can be made poorly and weak,this frame is not.
Here's a pic of one I built up
http://forums.farkin.net/photo/showphoto.php/photo/2473/cat/500/ppuser/2512
 

.Pit Steelers.

Nostradumbass
Jun 18, 2006
1,429
0
Hawaii
Exactly..i dont know anything about these frames..but guess what...im speeking my mind...they dont need to read my comments if they get offend by someone saying some about a bike.......
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Yeah sorry I may have been a bit harsh,it just gets boring hearing the same thing said by people with no or little experience or knowledge tryng to sound like they have either,again and again. Yes carbon has a bad name in the MTB world from manufacturueres making poor quality products,it is the same with any material though. I'm sure (and more rightly so)Alluminium coped a bashing back in it's hey day.
Very serious products are made from carbon now days(planes ,F1 cars ,crash cells,helmets etc),that is for good reason.


Oh your freedom of speach is bennefiting us all so much. You exercise that right son. Do you have any knowledge about Carbon at all or are you just regurgitating miss information you've heard?
Are you speaking someone elses mind like a parrot?.
 

konastab01

Turbo Monkey
Dec 7, 2004
1,245
289
Dude pretty sure you have 7 or 8.
I have number 6 just been keepin it quiet,Till its built
They are ****in sick in the flesh.
When you see it in the pics you think looks good but once saw in the flesh you will piss yourself as its that nice looking.
The old M8s all are on there 8th or 9th season now I can think.
Also I was told the other day that he saw one of the sickest crashes on one ever at a wc and the bike was ok after,not sure on the rider though.(this was the old one of a road gap or big jump)
 

konastab01

Turbo Monkey
Dec 7, 2004
1,245
289
Also the hubs are hand made and have a 20mm rear axle to stiffen the rear end up even more...
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
How much is the frame/shock/Rolhoff/hubset shipped to the US?

Does anyone else find the twist shifter retarded?
 

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,400
47
Vancouver, BC
Yeah sorry I may have been a bit harsh,it just gets boring hearing the same thing said by people with no or little experience or knowledge tryng to sound like they have either,again and again. Yes carbon has a bad name in the MTB world from manufacturueres making poor quality products,it is the same with any material though. I'm sure (and more rightly so)Alluminium coped a bashing back in it's hey day.
Very serious products are made from carbon now days(planes ,F1 cars ,crash cells,helmets etc),that is for good reason.


Oh your freedom of speach is bennefiting us all so much. You exercise that right son. Do you have any knowledge about Carbon at all or are you just regurgitating miss information you've heard?
Are you speaking someone elses mind like a parrot?.
To be fair to the guy, no-one to my knowledge has yet made a carbon off-road bicycle part that isn't susceptible to premature and catastrophic failure due to surface damage creating stress risers that rapidly propagate through the material. I'm well aware that these frames have an excellent reputation, but the poster whom you criticise made it quite clear he had no first hand experience of the frame in question, and was speaking based only on his experiences of carbon products thus far. Furthermore, you give examples of F1 cars and jet planes etc, which have little relevance here due to the budgets used to create these things.

From what I gather, these sound like awesome frames, but please don't let it become the latest product, for which any criticism/doubt expressed on these boards is met with universal flaming. Such stubbourness is what ruins this place...
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Yeah very true,also the products I listed aren't really prone to scraching. I did mention however it is five times thicker than needed and it is lass prone to scratching than Alluminium in the case of the Lahar's finnish. There is no part that gets clamped like a bar or post also,not that that is relivant but it may offer pease of mind to the uninitiated. I will endevour to learn better tolerance.
It would have been less offensive if he left it after the first comment,but to keep on at what is just wrong is what got me riallled up.
 

Cave Dweller

Monkey
May 6, 2003
993
0
To be fair to the guy, no-one to my knowledge has yet made a carbon off-road bicycle part that isn't susceptible to premature and catastrophic failure due to surface damage creating stress risers that rapidly propagate through the material. I'm well aware that these frames have an excellent reputation, but the poster whom you criticise made it quite clear he had no first hand experience of the frame in question, and was speaking based only on his experiences of carbon products thus far. Furthermore, you give examples of F1 cars and jet planes etc, which have little relevance here due to the budgets used to create these things.
FFS, did you read the thread??? There are 8-9 year old m7 and m8 frames still being ridden, hard.

Used right carbon is by far the best material to make a bike from.

From what I gather, these sound like awesome frames, but please don't let it become the latest product, for which any criticism/doubt expressed on these boards is met with universal flaming. Such stubbourness is what ruins this place...
Please don't let this forum turn into pinkbike, full of dumb ass one line comments that show no research or understanding and add nothing to the knowledge base.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,186
6,160
borcester rhymes
FFS, did you read the thread??? There are 8-9 year old m7 and m8 frames still being ridden, hard.

Used right carbon is by far the best material to make a bike from.



Please don't let this forum turn into pinkbike, full of dumb ass one line comments that show no research or understanding and add nothing to the knowledge base.
hi, pot? this is kettle.

He just doesn't want the lahar to turn into the sunday, where it can do nothing wrong, was made by angels, and is generally infallible in every circumstance. He's not saying it isn't a great bike, just that all bikes have faults and that we shouldn't overlook them on blind faith and pretty colors.

what's wrong with that? Also, the only dumbass is the person who is arguing against trying to end an argument. :plthumbsdown:

Lastly, who says carbon is the best material? and why? IMO, steel is the best due to the fact that I can have uncle ted weld it if it ever does crack or break, or if I need to modify it. Hell, I could probably weld myself a new front triangle for my brooklyn since I don't like the angles on the one I currently have. For carbon, that would take a very, very expensive mold, or some goofy lugs that never quite work the way they should.

I'm all for a good debate, but let's keep it good.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,186
6,160
borcester rhymes
To be fair to the guy, no-one to my knowledge has yet made a carbon off-road bicycle part that isn't susceptible to premature and catastrophic failure due to surface damage creating stress risers that rapidly propagate through the material.
yeah, but to be fair I don't think anybody's created a part (short of the avalanche mtn-8) that doesn't suffer from catastrophic failure under certain conditions.


To Xynine,
I am very, very jealous. I'd love to know how it rides, once you build it up. I imagine it will be rocketship fast, but my fear is the long stays and slack angles will make it more difficult to turn, kind of like longer skiis, or something. We all look forward to you letting us know.
 

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
Oh your freedom of speach is bennefiting us all so much. You exercise that right son. Do you have any knowledge about Carbon at all or are you just regurgitating miss information you've heard?
Are you speaking someone elses mind like a parrot?.
Don't stress it NSM, the whole purpose of "freedom of speech" and the "marketplace of ideas" is that everyone, even the idiots, can speak their piece. This allows the rest of us to easliy identify the idiots and ignore anything they say in the future. Pit Steeler has done us a favour, now we know not to waste our energy reading what he posts.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
To Xynine,
I am very, very jealous. I'd love to know how it rides, once you build it up. I imagine it will be rocketship fast, but my fear is the long stays and slack angles will make it more difficult to turn, kind of like longer skiis, or something. We all look forward to you letting us know.
thanks man. i was a bit concerned about the long stays & uber lack ha as well, though in practice, i've found a fairly wide range of geometries can be effective in a well-designed cohesive package. we'll see. right now it's puking snow in vancouver, so looks like the trails won't be clear for a while...
 

konastab01

Turbo Monkey
Dec 7, 2004
1,245
289
Its looks long but once it start going together its pretty short.Well mine is anyway.lol
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
It's not all that lazy feeling and due to the fact the weight is between your calves/knees and the back is so light it's very controlable,after a couple of weeks your subconcious absorbs it all and it rides fast at slow speeds. It may push the front a bit in slow corners till you get the feel of it. You can just weigh the front more in corners or change your fork set up or stem then still have the confidence at speed or off big stuff ,or drop your forks to 7.5 or 7 if desired. As for shore stuff(tight technical) with shorter forks and a heavier spring or shorter shock I don't see any reason why not,I guess the BB would be a bit over 14" with a 6" fork.
 

.Pit Steelers.

Nostradumbass
Jun 18, 2006
1,429
0
Hawaii
Hah you guys are to much fun.. I base what i say on past experinces and all of a sudden it's like What! These bikes last for 9 years and never need to be taken care of. There invincible they cant and wont ever break!! All im gonna say is that some of you guys are little bike whores..if thats the correct term...Most of you guys just defend some product that i have a diffrent oppion on then everyone eles....I guess im not alowed to have my own oppion anymore..oh well
 

konastab01

Turbo Monkey
Dec 7, 2004
1,245
289
Sweet that sounds great cant wait to get out on mine.
I have been told by a few people the fast you ride them the better they are..
 

Cave Dweller

Monkey
May 6, 2003
993
0
He just doesn't want the lahar to turn into the sunday, where it can do nothing wrong, was made by angels, and is generally infallible in every circumstance. He's not saying it isn't a great bike, just that all bikes have faults and that we shouldn't overlook them on blind faith and pretty colors.
hahah!! That hilarious. Do a search on my name and i think you will find out exactly what i think about the sundays. Im used to wearing my flame suit around here :busted:

My point was dumb one liner posts saying "its going to snap" are useless, a waste of electrons and belong on pinkbike.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,186
6,160
borcester rhymes
hahah!! That hilarious. Do a search on my name and i think you will find out exactly what i think about the sundays. Im used to wearing my flame suit around here :busted:

My point was dumb one liner posts saying "its going to snap" are useless, a waste of electrons and belong on pinkbike.
fair enough, I totally agree with that. I get so sick of the "my _____ is the offspring of god and lance armstrong, making it the best, lightest, and fastest, AND it only has one nut."

XY9, if you need to ride it, you can send it out here and i'll take it for a spin. Or you can bring yourself, and I'll watch ;) :(

Has anyone weighed the wheels separately? I know that part of the idea was reducing unsprung weight, but I'm tempted to say that won't make too much of a difference when everything is built up and done. You've got 7 cogs, half a freewheel, and a derailleur. I'm just curious what the actual unsprung difference is.

That being said, I do know that different geometries work differently, but I was definately scared off by the long stays. They come in at 18.5" or so, and on a high pivot, they're only going to get longer. Turners show the opposite, and they do corner well (although maybe that because the only time the suspension works is in corners, every other time it's just bouncing around).
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,186
6,160
borcester rhymes
hate to be an echo but.....prices? anyone? build weights? availability? some real "useful" info?
what I have heard/know.

The frame weighs 5.5 lbs, fully built it's around 10.5 (heavy rohloff). Price was around 3500 for a full kit, including, frame, 1000$ rohloff, shock, and cranks, plus rear hub. Fully built weights are coming in around 42, conservatively (think fox 40 and solid tubeless, not boxxer air and namby pamby wheels. Availability is bad, from what I know XY9 ordered his in September or earlier. Geometry is 18 (or 18.5?) inch stays, 62 HA, 23" TT, I think.

Please correct if not true.
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
Has anyone weighed the wheels separately? I know that part of the idea was reducing unsprung weight, but I'm tempted to say that won't make too much of a difference when everything is built up and done. You've got 7 cogs, half a freewheel, and a derailleur. I'm just curious what the actual unsprung difference is.

That being said, I do know that different geometries work differently, but I was definately scared off by the long stays. They come in at 18.5" or so, and on a high pivot, they're only going to get longer. Turners show the opposite, and they do corner well (although maybe that because the only time the suspension works is in corners, every other time it's just bouncing around).
I'd be willing to bet that with an average downhill wheel you could save a half pound of unsprung weight by removing the derailleur and cassette.

The turner suspension seems to work pretty well also so I'm not quite sure what the heck you're talking about.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
You also loose a few links off the chain at the back that's not running through the deraileur(not much I know).
With 40s at 8" the last one I built was at about 64 headangle. Lahar have steepened it up a degree. I think you'll find most pros run a similer or lazier angle but they're normally going alot faster and are fitter,stronger and much more agressive than most of us.
Until production is made on a larger scale(Lahar's trying to sort that now)it takes a few weeks to make each frame,and there's a long waiting list.