Richness. Lexx is practically begging for enlightenment on the subject and is being accused of being closed-minded and intolerant. He's taken steps on his own to research Christianity with hopes of finding answers to this topic as it's causing a great deal of confusion, in addition to the frustration and friction at his job. Seems his research only left him further baffled by the apparent contradictions so he posted a little rant that (seemed to me) included a smidgeon of hope of finding answers or guidance from anyone who might have something worth while to contribute in his quest for understanding.
"A vote for Bush is a vote for Jesus"
- Thread starter Lexx D
- Start date
Without reading all the threads............
Here short answer Lexx regarding your question.
Many of the moral issues Bush stands for....family, no abortion, no gay couples etc is consistent with classical Christanity.
According to strict Christain doctrine(hence Jesus), abortion is wrong and so is being gay which is what Bush is conveying through his policies. Hence the coorelation.
Not necessarily my view on things but in an attempt to answer your Q
Here short answer Lexx regarding your question.
Many of the moral issues Bush stands for....family, no abortion, no gay couples etc is consistent with classical Christanity.
According to strict Christain doctrine(hence Jesus), abortion is wrong and so is being gay which is what Bush is conveying through his policies. Hence the coorelation.
Not necessarily my view on things but in an attempt to answer your Q
No, this quote pretty much didLexx D said:
Your reading scriptures does not denote intolerance. I never said it did, bright guy. Your stance on the issue which you base on hatred and a misunderstanding of modern christians prompts me to believe you're intolerant.Lexx D said:
If you seriously had to ask this question, and not know the answer (look at SDH's post please) than it clearly explains how little you understand and perhaps you shouldnt be "Foaming at the mouth" about something you dont understand. Its pretty pathetic really. My guess though, is that you really do know why christians voted for Bush, yet you took this opportunity to Bash modern christians and promote your liberal so-called enlightened viewpoint upon the rest of us.
Anyway, your question has been answered and we now see you for what you are. Either a troll or ignorant.
NNNNNNNoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! You've found me out. Oh shame on me for ever trying to understand other cultures and beliefs.BurlyShirley said:
Official RM view of me to date(of course comments have been made by a select few): I'm a loser pothead, who can't hold a job. And because of my hardcore drug and alcohol use I'm an ignorant, intolerant troll whos true colors have shown to be dark, very dark.
Oh maybe one day I'll find someone who really understands me.
He did with the rich young man who wouldn't give up his "stuff" (which was his god) to be a disciple. Jesus didn't chase him or do a follow up visit or anything like that. The implications are however that this dude was "not going to get there from here".Lexx D said:
Jesus though didn't pull any punches with those who rejected His way and His "yoke" - some are wheat and some are chaff. Notice though with the exception of the religious leaders those that reject Him He does not belittle.
Hey Lexx, it was you who claimed to be frothing before you even knew the facts. I dont think I could find a better example of Prejudice in the dictionary.
STFU ChangChangleen said:
Shirl, I ranted about frothing because in all of my studies(world religions, eastern culture, etc.....) I didn't understand the correlation that my co-worker had made. You tried to butt in without reading all my posts with insults, conclusions about muy character, etc..... How am I supposed to take you seriously? Honestly you come across as a self righteous know it all. Who posts a bunch of opinions, calls it fact and then labels other people stupid or ignorant. I ranted then asked a question, Where's the problem? Get off your high horse and discuss something without insulting peoples intelligence. Otherwise I hope you understand that you look like the intollerant troll.BurlyShirley said:
Lexx D said:
You honestly and seriously did not understand that the republican platform is against gay marriage and abortion?
Give me a break dude.
I did. I was honestly was hoping there was more to it. In what I've read The teaching of how to treat other human beings seemed much more important.BurlyShirley said:You honestly and seriously did not understand that the republican platform is against gay marriage and abortion?
Give me a break dude.
"One day an expert on Moses' laws came to test Jesus' orthodoxy by asking him this question: "Teacher, what does a man need to do to live forever in heaven?" Jesus replied, "What does Moses' law say about it?" "It says," he replied, "that you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind. And you must love your neighbor just as much as you love yourself." "Right!" Jesus told him. "Do this and you shall live!"
"There is a saying, 'Love your friends and hate your enemies.' But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even scoundrels do that much. If you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the heathen do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."
Things like this seem much more important in a christian faith than what homosexuals are doing. But maybe that's where I'm wrong.
Or how about this:
Forgive Others
"For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. "But if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. (NAS, Matthew 6:14-15)
Anger can consume us with hatred and block out the love of God. Whether between parent and child, spouses, friends, or nations, expressions of anger divide us and drive us toward open hostility. More often than not, our angry feelings are based on a misinterpretation of what someone said or did. A grudge clouds our judgment and may lead us to an act of revenge that can never be undone.
Jesus said to forgive and forget. We should always be willing to forgive others, even when they don't ask for forgiveness. Holding a grudge and seeking revenge have no place in the lives of those who truly love their neighbors. Jesus calls us to remember that we are all God's children. Just as He loves all His people and is willing to forgive their sins, we should be willing to forgive also.
So again I raise the question of what GW does to follow these teachings?
Forgive Others
"For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. "But if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. (NAS, Matthew 6:14-15)
Anger can consume us with hatred and block out the love of God. Whether between parent and child, spouses, friends, or nations, expressions of anger divide us and drive us toward open hostility. More often than not, our angry feelings are based on a misinterpretation of what someone said or did. A grudge clouds our judgment and may lead us to an act of revenge that can never be undone.
Jesus said to forgive and forget. We should always be willing to forgive others, even when they don't ask for forgiveness. Holding a grudge and seeking revenge have no place in the lives of those who truly love their neighbors. Jesus calls us to remember that we are all God's children. Just as He loves all His people and is willing to forgive their sins, we should be willing to forgive also.
So again I raise the question of what GW does to follow these teachings?
Well, you need to read some more. One of the basics is that a sin is a sin and no one is worse than the others in the eyes of god. That's right. Stealing a pack of gum is the same as raping your own grandmother.Lexx D said:
But as to how this applies to GWB, we are already at war. Kerry wasnt going to stop it. The fighting has to be finished. Electing Kerry (who was in favor of the war in fact) wasnt going to change that situation at all.
If you study some more, you might also find out that the Christians cant judge GWB on what he has done, thats for god to do. But they can make a decision on what he says he wants to do, and those things go along with the Christian faith more than Kerry's did. It's really relatively simple.
But what is more important Lexx, is to understand that truth is only relative to who believes it. Science may be the way for you, but in many people's opinion it is not as legitimate a truth as their belief and relationship with god. You may think they're crazy, but they think you're crazy for opting to go to hell. There is NO right answer. None.
Hey, we can forgive people all day long, but we cant let them keep flying planes into buildings. You can forgive your GF for cheating on you, but still break up with her as a matter of principle. Use your head.Lexx D said:
Look at that, you can post something without being insulting. On that basis I agree then GWB supports a "moral" beleif system. Except based on you're argument these people should not be judging homosexuals or people who get abortions because that's God's job. So if it's God's job why are we trying to get involved by electing a president who is himself passing judgment on others?BurlyShirley said:
Oh well time to go home.
Because its your job to help others as a christian and not promote things that are blatanly wrong in your faith. Its all simple really. I swear. You're not judging them. You're stopping them from an action thats expressly forbidden.Lexx D said:
And that's why is so stupid.BurlyShirley said:
Uh, yes there is. Are you or are you not using a computer, connected to the internet, manipulating flows of electrons to make this message appear on this here forum? I don't see any forums 'powered by faith'...
One could argue that all forums are powered by god since he gave man the knowledge to create them.
Just sayin...
I dont beleive it either, but some folks do and I respect it.
Just sayin...
I dont beleive it either, but some folks do and I respect it.
I dont see anyone demonstrating that god is not in fact responsible for everything either though.Changleen said:
Yes, we know, you can't disprove the existence of god.
Personally, I think there is a china teapot in orbit around the sun, and I worship it daily for all it provides.
Now where do I sign up to get some tax free religion loving? If L. Ron Hubbard can do it...
Personally, I think there is a china teapot in orbit around the sun, and I worship it daily for all it provides.
Now where do I sign up to get some tax free religion loving? If L. Ron Hubbard can do it...
We already know how you hate the religious. No need to post in here.Silver said:
Respect goes a long way, whether you believe in something or not. When you grow up you will learn that.
I find it funny how someone can preach equal rights and marriage for the gay population, while in the same vein demonizing the religious for what they hold dear. You say why not it doesn't affect me and they deserve equal rights when it comes to some things, but apparently that doesn't run true for everything huh?
Holy crap folks, can you say hypocritical?
BTW i am an atheist and support gay marriage...
I find it funny how someone can preach equal rights and marriage for the gay population, while in the same vein demonizing the religious for what they hold dear. You say why not it doesn't affect me and they deserve equal rights when it comes to some things, but apparently that doesn't run true for everything huh?
Holy crap folks, can you say hypocritical?
BTW i am an atheist and support gay marriage...
oh , i forgot to add:
HOLY JEEBUS!
HOLY JEEBUS!
I'm finished with respect. I'll respect religion until it gets to the point where it decides that it needs to legislate itself into my life or the life of an innocent bystander. You did notice the difference between advocating equal rights for homosexuals (which really doesn't affect your regular fundamentalist) and advocating legislation to enshrine discrimination in the constitution?Transcend said:
Have you noticed how pissed off I get at Hasidic Jews? Not very, but then again, I don't have to fight them off at my door, they don't try to legistlate that I can't shop on Saturday, and they generally keep their religion a private matter.
Cause hey, if you need to respect religion, Saudi Arabia has a great system of government. Tons o' respect there...
But your views that are being legislated against them are ok?Silver said:
You're not making alot of sense here.
You know what they say, you can't make everyone happy all the time.BurlyShirley said:
N8 said:
yo! my first last name is Lopez!!!!!!
Here's a few thoughts on the issue. First, not all Christians believe that any one sin carries the same weight as any other. It's not that simple.
Also, the argument that an act seen as immoral (i.e. abortion) by some should not be legislated against because God will pass judgment does not work on either a practical, moral or religious level.
What is with the general antagonism towards Christians? First, there are many other Christians and religious people besides the religious right; they are just the most publicized and vocal group. Don't polarize the issue beyond reality.
Second, if you cannot understand why someone would accept a religion's tenets because they are unreasonable or illogical, THEN YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE MINDSET OF A PERSON WHO DOES. You get no points for being an atheist. You don't look smarter, you're not a better person and you don't finish any higher in the logic race.
Also, I agree with separation of church and state but I am conflicted over how that applies to legislation. Think about it this way: if a leader makes his decisions and laws based on a religion, we would consider that wrong. If a leader bases his decisions on a secular philosophy (consider it a religion minus the divine) then it would be fine. What is the functional difference?
Also, the argument that an act seen as immoral (i.e. abortion) by some should not be legislated against because God will pass judgment does not work on either a practical, moral or religious level.
What is with the general antagonism towards Christians? First, there are many other Christians and religious people besides the religious right; they are just the most publicized and vocal group. Don't polarize the issue beyond reality.
Second, if you cannot understand why someone would accept a religion's tenets because they are unreasonable or illogical, THEN YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE MINDSET OF A PERSON WHO DOES. You get no points for being an atheist. You don't look smarter, you're not a better person and you don't finish any higher in the logic race.
Also, I agree with separation of church and state but I am conflicted over how that applies to legislation. Think about it this way: if a leader makes his decisions and laws based on a religion, we would consider that wrong. If a leader bases his decisions on a secular philosophy (consider it a religion minus the divine) then it would be fine. What is the functional difference?
My views don't require that you are on a first name basis with Jesus to be considered a citizen...BurlyShirley said:
I've yet to see that bill even mentioned. Hmm...out of ideas are we?Silver said:
I understand the mindset fully. I also understand why that happens to be dangerous. If you need further illustration, September 11, 2001 would be a great place to start.JRogers said:
If a leader was Muslim, and decided that Sharia was a party we should all be invited to, you'd be ok with that, I assume? Or would you point out that legislating Sharia wasn't cool with you because you didn't believe in Allah.
A religion minus the divine isn't really a religion anymore, is it?
It's nice to see someone join me on this............................Transcend said:
Awesome post JR...................JRogers said:
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God."BurlyShirley said:
George H. W. Bush
It's the spirit of the thing...you know...
It's not that simple. The point I was making is that we all make decisions based on a moral code of some kind. Religions give a certain moral code as can specific philosophies. If a philosohphy dictates all of a person's moral decisions, why do we consider it less reprehensible than if a religion does the same thing? The difference between religion and philosophy can become so close that, essentially, we are only talking semantics and not functional differences.Silver said:
I am not convinced that the US Constitution prevents leaders from basing decisions on their own religion which is, in effect, their morality and the fiber of their being. How, as a reasonable person, could that individual actually do what they thought was wrong?
People get so hung up on church-state separation that they go nuts with it and think that everything about our government must be totally secularized. Take this, for example: if Bush enacts a law that opposes abortion because he believes it is wrong due to his faith, we may cry foul. Suppose Bush were an atheist. If he enacts a law that opposes abortion because he believes it is wrong due to objective moral principle, we can (perhaps grudginly) accept. Why? What's the difference? A label? Don't just say "because that was what our gov was founded on." Not only do I question that, I think it's bull to pull that out and use it as a reason. A wise man once said, "I am a man first, then an American at a late and convinient hour."