Quantcast

'Adulterous' teenager sentenced to death by stoning

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Where's Oprah on this one..???

'Adulterous' teenager sentenced to death by stoning
Breakingnews.ie | 22/10/2004 | Staff

Two Nigerian women – one a teenager – have been sentenced to death by stoning after being convicted o adultery.

The sentences, passed down in Nigeria’s Bauchi state, are the first of their kind in over a year in the mainly Muslim north, where 12 states have introduced controversial Islamic Shariah criminal codes since 1999.

One of the two women, 18-year-old Hajara Ibrahim, is due to appeal on Monday, said Bunmi Dipo-Salami of a Baobab, a group of human rights lawyers that is funding lawyers for her defence.

Ibrahim was convicted for having sex outside marriage, but Dipo-Salami said the case was being appealed on the basis that her first marriage had never been consummated. Ibrahim was promised in matrimony to a man while still a minor, and later lived with him for only a short time, she said.

The other woman, 25-year-old Daso Adamu, was convicted to death by stoning in September 15. She says she was made pregnant by one of her two ex-husbands.

Adamu was initially imprisoned along with her baby of less than six months, before being released on bail this week after her first appeal hearing. Her case was adjourned until November 3.

Controversy over the introduction of Shariah criminal law in Nigeria in 1999 and 2000 sparked clashes in which thousands were killed, both in the north and the majority-Christian south.

No men have been convicted of adultery in past death-by-stoning cases, as Shariah courts found there was insufficient evidence to prove they had sex with the women.

Under Shariah law, men can only be convicted on the basis of witness statements, while pregnancy is considered sufficient evidence to convict women.
 

s1ngletrack

Monkey
Aug 17, 2004
762
0
Denver
Andyman_1970 said:
Obviously sacntity of human life is not high on their priority list........... :(
It could just be appearances - but it seems that the sanctity of human life means little, while the sanctity of female human life means even less. I don't get it - how can these people not question whether or not it is really "God, Allah, etc..." that is telling them to behave like drugged and pissed-off primates?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Andyman_1970 said:
Obviously sacntity of human life is not high on their priority list........... :(
Same goes for psuedo pro-lifers bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors...

Or how about the leader those less extreme pro-lifers support - he attacked a country under false premises, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in the process, and INCREASED global terrorism by his actions :blah:
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
syadasti said:
Same goes for psuedo pro-lifers bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors...

Or how about the leader those less extreme pro-lifers support - he attacked a country under false premises, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in the process, and INCREASED global terrorism by his actions :blah:
...yawn.

Do you ever get tired of yourself?
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
Crank the religious indignation down a notch..........

syadasti said:
Same goes for psuedo pro-lifers bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors...
I wouldn't disagree with you, but the post is about Muslims in Nigeria not wacky right wing pro-life abortion clinic bombers.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,841
18
So Cal
syadasti said:
Same goes for psuedo pro-lifers bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors...

Or how about the leader those less extreme pro-lifers support - he attacked a country under false premises, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in the process, and INCREASED global terrorism by his actions :blah:
I agree with you to a point. However, I think the spirit of the original statement was that it seems that of the major religions out there Islam appears to be the most violent one out there with the least regard for human life. Many religions have done the same. Just look at the inquisition and the witch burning of christian religions. I can't really comment on others as I just do not have the knowledge, but I imagine that others have done the same. Does anyone have any factoids about the violence levels of other religions through the years?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
It's not Islam, it's Shariah.

Islam exists peacefully in THIS country, where it's members are encouraged to llive moral lives, educate themselves, and treat their neighbors with respect. It is being exploited in the Middle East to gain power by tapping into people's desperation, worst instincts, and prejudices. Similar has been done before with a cult of personality, but a formal religion makes it much easier. Maybe Islam is an easier tool to use for this than others (say, Buddhism) but fanaticism, and in turn barbarism, can be whipped up in almost any under-educated, under-fed part of the world.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
ohio said:
...... but fanaticism, and in turn barbarism, can be whipped up in almost any under-educated, under-fed part of the world.
Agreed. It seems to me "normal" Islam is well "normal", but when you have people that can't even read their religions "manual" it's probably very easy to feed them whatever you want them to know regardless of if it's correct to the "manual", how are they going to know, they can't read.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
syadasti said:
Same goes for psuedo pro-lifers bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors...

Or how about the leader those less extreme pro-lifers support - he attacked a country under false premises, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in the process, and INCREASED global terrorism by his actions :blah:
While you are being inflamatory don't leave out the women who are commiting murder by killing their unborn children.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
Andyman, is there a penalty listed for adultery in the Old Testament?

MD

Edit: Nevermind, the Word of the Lord, paraphrased, is only a google search away: Yet both the adulterous man and woman were viewed as guilty, and the punishment of death was prescribed for both (Lev. 20:10)

So what's the matter? I mean, the interpretation of the law in this instance is pretty bad, and they're appealing the decision, but just because the Muslims live the word of their religion instead of picking and choosing what to apply, they're bad? God said to kill them (according to a lot of Christians I know who insist the Bible is divinely inspired and infallible)...is the problem that stoning is too crude? Should it be lethal injection for the Lord?

Then again, you *have* to pick and choose what you want in order to function as a member of a biblical religion, don't you? "Don't judge others, that's God's job...yours is to love them" kind of conflicts with "execute this person for disobeying the laws in this book." (Of course, you can get around that if the Bible is literally God's word...then God has judged the person, not you. But if you're going to use God's words, you'd best speak Aramaic, because that's apparently what God spoke, and you wouldn't want to get anything wrong in the translation, would you?)

MD
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Andyman_1970 said:
Agreed. It seems to me "normal" Islam is well "normal", but when you have people that can't even read their religions "manual" it's probably very easy to feed them whatever you want them to know regardless of if it's correct to the "manual", how are they going to know, they can't read.
Don't be so quick to admonish the poor and illiterate since i'm sure we all have a small part in contributing to it.
Plus this bucket may hold some water but i believe it to be quite pourous. Since the ability of reading doesn't guarantee anything. People believe what they want to regardless, the ability to read and the ability to comprehend are two separate things, as i'm sure everyone here can agree with....
 

ioscope

Turbo Monkey
Jul 3, 2004
2,002
0
Vashon, WA
People need to open their minds, this is what these people are. It's impossible to explain here, so let's just say they have a completely different perspective.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,365
2,473
Pōneke
Yeah, don't forget, America has the death penalty too, and executes hundreds each year. As this thread states, this practice is pretty rare (reportedly anyway - it may happen more i don't know - but whatever...), and I'm pretty sure that the 'justice', as fvcked up and horrible as it is a way to die, is carried out pretty fast. America makes you wait years with knowledge of your impending death. Which is crueler?
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
As far as I know no people have been stoned to death in Nigeria under these laws as the sentences are always commuted in the higher courts
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
MikeD said:
Andyman, is there a penalty listed for adultery in the Old Testament?

MD

Edit: Nevermind, the Word of the Lord, paraphrased, is only a google search away: Yet both the adulterous man and woman were viewed as guilty, and the punishment of death was prescribed for both (Lev. 20:10)

So what's the matter? I mean, the interpretation of the law in this instance is pretty bad, and they're appealing the decision, but just because the Muslims live the word of their religion instead of picking and choosing what to apply, they're bad? God said to kill them (according to a lot of Christians I know who insist the Bible is divinely inspired and infallible)...is the problem that stoning is too crude? Should it be lethal injection for the Lord?
Mike, Mike Mike...........come on man. First, there is a huge difference between divinely inspired/infallible in the context it was given in the Bible as a whole, both literally and theologically and with all due respect your cynical example, ripped from it's context of the whole Scripture (The Bible is a "whole" document ya know).

Second as a Christian is this applicable to us today? Well, Jesus being a Jewish rabbi (not to mention the Messiah) and a rabbi with authority He could teach a new interpretation to the Torah (which your verse is a part of), which is known as a rabbi's "yoke". This is not something every rabbi could do just rabbi's with authority, which Jesus was only one of 12 documented in the 1st century. What does Jesus teach the "whole Law" (Torah) hangs on? Loving God and loving others, not only that but what does He do with the chick caught in adultery by the Pharisee's? Does He condemn her? So as a Christian, I am a disciple of Jesus, which means I am to take on His "yoke" or His interpretation (or Midrash to use the Hebrew) and live by it.

Does that answer your question?

Was it really a question or just your "commentary" about something you're demonstrating (with all due respect) your ignorance of?

MikeD said:
Then again, you *have* to pick and choose what you want in order to function as a member of a biblical religion, don't you? "Don't judge others, that's God's job...yours is to love them" kind of conflicts with "execute this person for disobeying the laws in this book." (Of course, you can get around that if the Bible is literally God's word...then God has judged the person, not you. But if you're going to use God's words, you'd best speak Aramaic, because that's apparently what God spoke, and you wouldn't want to get anything wrong in the translation, would you?)
You really don't need to pick and choose, you just need to view the Scriptures properly through their context. This is exactly why I look at the Scriptures as a "whole" document in their cultural, and historical context, not some cold doctrinal "thing" floating out there with a halo around it. These were real people in real places at a real time, and they were influenced to write these things by real circumstances.

A little homework for MikeD: Read Deuteronomy21:10-14 and do a google search on what women's rights (specifically captured women) were at about the year 1400 BC. Now how "barbaric" is the Bible in it's proper context?

One last note, since aramaic was a "in between" language so the Jews could communicate with the Greeks and a relatively "new" language compared to Biblical Hebrew, you're a wee bit off base with your statement there.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
My point, inflammatory rhetoric aside, was that the Old Testament commands its readers to do the exact same thing as these Muslims are doing (while also exhorting 'thou shalt not kill'), yet those who consider the old testament an authoritative document are, for some reason, aghast that it's happening and critical of those executing their religious obligation.

Just calling it like I see it. Examples of hipocrisy in any religion, or among non-religious people, are easy enough to find that I usually find it useless to bring up...but this time, I just felt compelled to for some wierd reason.

MD
 

s1ngletrack

Monkey
Aug 17, 2004
762
0
Denver
ohio said:
It's not Islam, it's Shariah.

Islam exists peacefully in THIS country, where it's members are encouraged to llive moral lives, educate themselves, and treat their neighbors with respect. It is being exploited in the Middle East to gain power by tapping into people's desperation, worst instincts, and prejudices. Similar has been done before with a cult of personality, but a formal religion makes it much easier. Maybe Islam is an easier tool to use for this than others (say, Buddhism) but fanaticism, and in turn barbarism, can be whipped up in almost any under-educated, under-fed part of the world.
Way to steal my fire, Calm Voice of Reason, it's much more fun to just be pissed off and make generalizations, oh well...

:)
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
MikeD said:
My point, inflammatory rhetoric aside, was that the Old Testament commands its readers to do the exact same thing as these Muslims are doing (while also exhorting 'thou shalt not kill'), yet those who consider the old testament an authoritative document are, for some reason, aghast that it's happening and critical of those executing their religious obligation.
The problem is it's the year 2004, not 1400 BC, and women's rights have progressed hugely, which I would argue the Bible played a part in advancing.

MikeD said:
Just calling it like I see it. Examples of hipocrisy in any religion, or among non-religious people, are easy enough to find that I usually find it useless to bring up...but this time, I just felt compelled to for some wierd reason.
I'm glad you did. As for the hypocricy, I'm doing my best to change that attitude, one post at a time.

Anyway, I'm off to bed, I'll chat with you guys tomorrow..........don't forget your homework assigniment.............
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
The problem, Andy, is that most 'christians' don't seem to have the introspective, inquisitive, studious nature you bring to the subject...and a lot of us onlookers universalize what we see and hear every day-and when it irritates us, we lash out at "christianity" or "religion" as a whole, which are pretty meaningless and vague targets. Many Christians I know bring their religion to center on their world instead of their world to center on their religion....then again, as an atheist (or accepting agnostic, or whatever I should be termed), I guess I shouldn't open my mouth on religious issues at all. Anyhow, your voice has been the one Christian voice that's been truly compelling and thoughtful, as far as I've listened.

I've found your posts generally very, very informative and am glad for them...and I think we've agreed (in the past) on at least one thing...a lot of 'religious' people forget what their religion is really about.

MD
 

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
MikeD said:
My point, inflammatory rhetoric aside, was that the Old Testament commands its readers to do the exact same thing as these Muslims are doing (while also exhorting 'thou shalt not kill'), yet those who consider the old testament an authoritative document are, for some reason, aghast that it's happening and critical of those executing their religious obligation.

Just calling it like I see it. Examples of hipocrisy in any religion, or among non-religious people, are easy enough to find that I usually find it useless to bring up...but this time, I just felt compelled to for some wierd reason.

MD
"Authoritative" is a tricky word and can mean many different things to different people. I can consider a document authoritative but not follow its every literal dictum without being a hypocrite. Even in antiquity, Jewish law (not biblical Mosaic law but the local laws and customs of Jewish groups) did not advocate a strict interpretation of the relevant passages here. Simply, even back in the day, nobody did all this stuff.

And, personally, I believe that if you accept the OT as a whole work and condone the stoning of someone because they have committed adultery, then you are in the wrong.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
JRogers said:
"Authoritative" is a tricky word and can mean many different things to different people. I can consider a document authoritative but not follow its every literal dictum without being a hypocrite. Even in antiquity, Jewish law (not biblical Mosaic law but the local laws and customs of Jewish groups) did not advocate a strict interpretation of the relevant passages here. Simply, even back in the day, nobody did all this stuff.

And, personally, I believe that if you accept the OT as a whole work and condone the stoning of someone because they have committed adultery, then you are in the wrong.
An interesting side note to this: even in Jesus day, sanctity of life took priority over the 613 Laws in the Torah. So when Jesus "breaks" the sabbath to heal someone, He in not breaking the spirit of the Law due to the overiding principle of the sanctity of life.

Another interesting thought: we Greek thinking Westerners tend to think of truth as static and unchanging, where the Jewish/Eastern mind see truth as "unfolding", that it all has not been revealed yet - which I think should be carefully scrutinized so as not to fall into the "progressive revelation" crowd that just make up their rules anyway they want..............*cough* mormons *cough*
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
MikeD said:
The problem, Andy, is that most 'christians' don't seem to have the introspective, inquisitive, studious nature you bring to the subject...and a lot of us onlookers universalize what we see and hear every day-and when it irritates us, we lash out at "christianity" or "religion" as a whole, which are pretty meaningless and vague targets. Many Christians I know bring their religion to center on their world instead of their world to center on their religion....then again, as an atheist (or accepting agnostic, or whatever I should be termed), I guess I shouldn't open my mouth on religious issues at all. Anyhow, your voice has been the one Christian voice that's been truly compelling and thoughtful, as far as I've listened.

I've found your posts generally very, very informative and am glad for them...and I think we've agreed (in the past) on at least one thing...a lot of 'religious' people forget what their religion is really about.

MD
Thanks for the props Mike, coming from an atheist/agnostic that made my Monday morning................. :thumb:
 

TheInedibleHulk

Turbo Monkey
May 26, 2004
1,886
0
Colorado
MikeD said:
The problem, Andy, is that most 'christians' don't seem to have the introspective, inquisitive, studious nature you bring to the subject...and a lot of us onlookers universalize what we see and hear every day-and when it irritates us, we lash out at "christianity" or "religion" as a whole, which are pretty meaningless and vague targets. Many Christians I know bring their religion to center on their world instead of their world to center on their religion....then again, as an atheist (or accepting agnostic, or whatever I should be termed), I guess I shouldn't open my mouth on religious issues at all. Anyhow, your voice has been the one Christian voice that's been truly compelling and thoughtful, as far as I've listened.

I've found your posts generally very, very informative and am glad for them...and I think we've agreed (in the past) on at least one thing...a lot of 'religious' people forget what their religion is really about.

MD
Well said Mike. I think Andy pretty much covered the correct response to your criticism. Your absolutely right that old testament law would be a terrible thing if we lived by it today, but Andy is correct that when taken in the whole context of scripture it's clear that the law of Moses is no longer binding. You're right to point out, in response to this thread, some of the atrocities commited in the name of the Christian God throughout history. The Crusades, the inquisition, the conquistadors, witch hunts in colonial america... these things are facts of history and as much as some Christians dont want to admit it, Christianity was certianly a tool used in these horrible acts. However, I believe it was simply used as cover for evil and selfish intentions of the men who perpetrated these crimes and virtually all the major belief structures have similar stains on their histories. Do I blame the murder of these women on Islam? Of course not, I blame the state of extreme ignorance and backwardness of Nigeria. Hell, the KKK invokes religious purpose into what they do and uses the symbols of Christianty, but to blame christianity for the KKK doesnt make any sense at all. I supose you could some up what I'm trying to say as, religion doesnt kill people, people kill people. One of the main pillars of christianity is that man is sinful and will act in sinful ways, and I think the history of christianity itself has proven that fact.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
TheInedibleHulk said:
Well said Mike. I think Andy pretty much covered the correct response to your criticism.
Thanks............

TheInedibleHulk said:
Your absolutely right that old testament law would be a terrible thing if we lived by it today, but Andy is correct that when taken in the whole context of scripture it's clear that the law of Moses is no longer binding.
Thanks, it's more like we are under Jesus' interpretation of the Torah...........sorry to be technical.............

TheInedibleHulk said:
You're right to point out, in response to this thread, some of the atrocities commited in the name of the Christian God throughout history. The Crusades, the inquisition, the conquistadors, witch hunts in colonial america... these things are facts of history and as much as some Christians dont want to admit it, Christianity was certianly a tool used in these horrible acts. However, I believe it was simply used as cover for evil and selfish intentions of the men who perpetrated these crimes and virtually all the major belief structures have similar stains on their histories. Do I blame the murder of these women on Islam? Of course not, I blame the state of extreme ignorance and backwardness of Nigeria. Hell, the KKK invokes religious purpose into what they do and uses the symbols of Christianty, but to blame christianity for the KKK doesnt make any sense at all. I supose you could some up what I'm trying to say as, religion doesnt kill people, people kill people. One of the main pillars of christianity is that man is sinful and will act in sinful ways, and I think the history of christianity itself has proven that fact.
Well said................