[William42]

Thanks boys. I appreciate your hard work in posting KOMS and ensuring semi legal and illegal trails get shut down.

http://www.tetongravity.com/story/gear-tech/strava-speeds-help-mountain-bikers-get-banned-from-california-park

 

[ianjenn]

First problem was no public comment made against the ban. Did they do this a 4pm during the week so only the non working class could make it? Enduro costs dough yo.........

 

[cecil]

I'm not advocating for strava

There is another common denominator always!

Horses....

With the same "a horse could get spooked!" Comment every time

 

[norbar]

On one hand it sucks. On the other Strava is useful for recognizing douchebags a bit like fatbikes and strange endurace 24h single speed cantilever xc events are. Though both groups overlap by a large margin.

 

[cecil]

Over here on the east coast we have tons of legal trails the town's and county's have opened up parks to biking we clean garbage up build trails


BUT!!!! The spandex clad dirt roadies on their 29er slick tires airbrushed with fake knobbies that are supposed to roll over things easier they cut out every root larger in diameter than your thumb install pavers and make it a climb..all posting their strava kom times acting like Doug nedimire from animal house

 

[William42]

Horses could get spooked. And a horse getting spooked is fucking scary for all parties, from the equestrian, the bike rider, and the horse, and anybody else using the trail. Which is precisely why, on a multi use trail, using strava and going for KOM's and going as fast as possible is 100% a bad call. Go ride on designated DH trails if you want to go for times.

Here's the thing about strava. In the hands of a person who isn't a slobbering troglodyte, its a perfectly useful and valid tool. The thing is, there are a lot of slobbering troglodytes in all walks of life, and saying "just because they're stupid doesn't mean I should be punished" simply doesn't work. You will be punished for their stupidity, one way or another. Its a fact of life. Strava simply gives them a tool to hasten and increase the severity your punishment.

 

[StiHacka]

Los Altos...

 

[William42]

Yeah, to be fair, Los Altos is about as much of a centralized area of rich people who think they own all the land (and also happen to be right, because again, super rich). Mountain biking was probably doomed their from the start, and there wasn't much hope for it. But you know that using strava as a tool to justify shutting down trails is going to become more popular with other groups in similar situations.

And honestly, I can't really say that they're wrong. Going for times on multiuse trails that have horses on them is a pretty stupid, and selfish thing to do.

 

[Jm_]

People are generally selfish a-holes and don't care how their actions affect other people. Only when their actions directly affect themselves do they start giving a ****.

 

[jonKranked]

First problem was no public comment made against the ban

while true, Strava provided the ammo for these people just looking for a reason to ban bikers. without the strava data, there would have been no need to defend mtb use/access.

 

[maxyedor]

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, turn all horses into steak, the trails would be safer for all parties, there would be far fewer poop piles on the trails, and steak is delicious.

They used strava as justification because strata exists, if it weren't for strava, they'd still have shit down the trails because horse people can't handle people sharing their trails, and a select few mountain bikers are dick-bags.

 

[4130biker]

Yeah, to be fair, Los Altos is about as much of a centralized area of rich people who think they own all the land (and also happen to be right, because again, super rich). Mountain biking was probably doomed their from the start, and there wasn't much hope for it. But you know that using strava as a tool to justify shutting down trails is going to become more popular with other groups in similar situations.

And honestly, I can't really say that they're wrong. Going for times on multiuse trails that have horses on them is a pretty stupid, and selfish thing to do.

Did someone say they were actually going for time? Some people just use strava to document their ride and don't really give a shit how fast they went downhill. I don't know the trail- maybe 20 is fast here, maybe it's just normal.
Secondly, while I agree with you that a horse freakout is a scary thing for everyone involved, I would argue that these horses and riders aren't prepared for the reality of multi-use trails and are acting irresponsibly by being on them.
Imagine a multi-use trail, where motocycles are allowed (they exist in WA state). Now imagine a motorcycle that randomly goes WOT as soon as it detects another trail user. No one would see that as an acceptable contraption to have on a multi-use trail!
This is exactly what the horse riders have with their "green" horses and riders, but somehow it is our responsibility to watch out for their animals that are genetically predisposed to freaking the fuck out. They should be fined for having unsafe animals in a public place. Is it ok for people to have a dog that flips out and attacks the moment it gets scared? No! It is the trail users responsibility to be in control of themselves and whatever they bring... this includes mountain bikers...
The whole "my horse will get spooked" thing shows a lack of responsibility on their part, not the other way around.

 

[kidwoo]

 

[jonKranked]

They used strava as justification because strata exists, if it weren't for strava, they'd still have shit down the trails because horse people can't handle people sharing their trails, and a select few mountain bikers are dick-bags.

strava made it a hell of a lot easier though. the basically served up mtb access demise on a silver platter.

 

[William42]

This isn't about horses though. They didn't lose their access. We're talking about bikes right now.

Being on trails with horses is pretty easy. I've ridden on plenty, and in general all the equestrians I've come across haven't been dicks. The trick, I find, to easy interactions with horses is to not go as fast as I possibly can, particularly around any blind corners, on a multiuse trail that I know horses use. Literally all there is to it. Use your brain. If you're going fast enough that there wont be any warning your coming, and you'll startle other trail users, you're going too fast for a multiuse trail. Go ride other trails. If you need to ride on illegal trails to ride DH specific trails, you still shouldn't be using strava.

 

[StiHacka]

My life is easy, I go by this religion:

Fuck strava.
Fuck imba.
Fuck trek.

 

[jonKranked]

My life is easy, I go by this religion:

Fuck strava.
Fuck imba.
Fuck trek.

fuck e-bikes

 

[jackalope]

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, turn all horses into steak, the trails would be safer for all parties, there would be far fewer poop piles on the trails, and steak is delicious.

Also, this might be useful info (as posted on Vital) -

Make your rides "Private" when you upload them. AND opt out of adding your data to the Strava Heat Map - if you do not uncheck this box, private rides will be added to the Heat Map, which is one of the tools land managers use to track us. See screen grabs attached to turn off your connection to the Heat Map.

 

[FlipFantasia]

riding fast does not necessarily mean riding dangerously, and using strava does not necessarily mean one is racing. asshole riders are asshole riders regardless of them using an app or not.

 

[FlipFantasia]

and jackalope, private rides are not added to the heatmap

"User information, private activities and portions of activities in privacy zones are excluded from the Strava Metro and the Heatmap automatically. To further protect our users' privacy, we also remove the first and last kilometer of each activity. Please note: this data can only be viewed in aggregate and is never exposed on a per-user basis."

 

[jonKranked]

riding fast does not necessarily mean riding dangerously, and using strava does not necessarily mean one is racing. asshole riders are asshole riders regardless of them using an app or not.

not to mention there is a fairly large margin of error on the speed estimated based on a phone's GPS

 

[maxyedor]

strava made it a hell of a lot easier though. the basically served up mtb access demise on a silver platter.

Easier/harder doesn't matter, we fail to counter the assault, so it's always easy.

I agree that Strava awarding KOMs looks bad, but any halfassed armchair lawyer could cut that argument down in a minute. Nobody even tried. They could have shown up, yelled obscenities, took at dump on the floor and still would have won.

I like 4130s comparison above. If it were anything but a horse that could be so easily spooked and potentially kill, it would be put down and all the rest would be banned. I've "spooked" hiking, and riding slowly with a loud ass bell and plenty of verbal warnings of my presence. Much like shit headed dogs and public masturbaters, some creatures just dont belong on the trail.

 

[OGRipper]

Rail against them all you want, but Strava and apps like it are not going away. (And no, I don't use Strava.) People are just too caught up in themselves to turn them off. We live in a new world of over-sharing. Get used to it.

Call me optimistic but personally I hope the data will eventually help. Land managers can't ignore the reality of the numbers much longer. The old-guard anti-bike crusaders are dying off and are being replaced by younger generations who grew up with mountain bikes around and see them as one more piece of a complicated puzzle rather than newcomers with no right to be out there. That goes for the general public as well as the land managers, rangers, etc.

 

[jonKranked]

Easier/harder doesn't matter, we fail to counter the assault, so it's always easy.

part of me suspects the meeting was set with little advance notice or announcement to deliberately try and create this situation; ie no attendees from the MTB community.

 

[jackalope]

not to mention there is a fairly large margin of error on the speed estimated based on a phone's GPS

T-H-I-S

I have a family member that still thinks his results aren't just gross approximations (at best), despite my repeated explanations why they're "less than accurate".

Rail against them all you want, but Strava and apps like it are not going away. (And no, I don't use Strava.) People are just too caught up in themselves to turn them off. We live in a new world of over-sharing. Get used to it.

Call me optimistic but personally I hope the data will eventually help. Land managers can't ignore the reality of the numbers much longer. The old-guard anti-bike crusaders are dying off and are being replaced by younger generations who grew up with mountain bikes around and see them as one more piece of a complicated puzzle rather than newcomers with no right to be out there. That goes for the general public as well as the land managers, rangers, etc.

While I agree with a lot of this, I still think we have an unfortunate ways to go before the OG crowd is off the earthly radar. It will never happen, but I it'd be nice if people would just put all their bandit trail rides on 'private'.

 

[kidwoo]

public masturbaters........... just dont belong on the trail.

Hater

 

[kidwoo]

Call me optimistic but personally I hope the data will eventually help. Land managers can't ignore the reality of the numbers much longer. The old-guard anti-bike crusaders are dying off and are being replaced by younger generations who grew up with mountain bikes around and see them as one more piece of a complicated puzzle rather than newcomers with no right to be out there. That goes for the general public as well as the land managers, rangers, etc.

Every so often, when the breeze is just right.........you smell the waft of decaying flesh blowing over from the hills of marin. Mmmmmmm Tomorrow looks bright.

 

[FlipFantasia]

not to mention there is a fairly large margin of error on the speed estimated based on a phone's GPS

let alone the fact that the phone is usually in a pocket and mountain bike trails are predominantly in forested areas which causes even more signal drift and inaccuracy.

 

[StiHacka]

Land managers can't ignore the reality of the numbers much longer.

This. They'll hire IMBA to build highway-through-the-woods trails and divert all the officially sanctioned bike traffic there.

 

[jonKranked]

here's something else to consider... the 20mph+ that were considered to be "just incredibly unacceptable"; it's highly unlikely that there was an actual speed limit for the trail. so to ban them for a speed that's "unacceptable" when it's not in excess of any sort of limit is just arbitrary.

 

[Dogboy]

They used strava as justification because strata exists, if it weren't for strava, they'd still have shit down the trails because horse people can't handle people sharing their trails, and a select few mountain bikers are dick-bags.

Yep.

 

[Fool]

You guys need some good ol' east coast uphill left-turn logovers to slow things down out there.

 

[jonKranked]

They used strava as justification because strata exists, if it weren't for strava, they'd still have shit down the trails because horse people can't handle people sharing their trails, and a select few mountain bikers are dick-bags.

strava just made it a hell of a lot easier / more convenient for them.

they'd still have shit down the trail

that's kind of what horses do

 

[slyfink]

My life is easy, I go by this religion:

Fuck strava.
Fuck imba.
Fuck trek.

you forgot Specialized.

This thread reminded me I need to download, install and start using Strava. My City is using its "heat maps" to determine the most actively cycled routes in the city. So I better get to usin it to show where I'm riding.

Oh, and screw those other people. they must have small hands, leading them to not know how awesome mountainbiking is.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Equestrians vs. VC-Dentists in Los Altos! The weapons agreed upon shall be Strava, carbon Ibises and hand-tooled bridle leather whips!

1%er death match over mediocre trails!

 

[wood booger]

Yeah, to be fair, Los Altos is about as much of a centralized area of rich people who think they own all the land (and also happen to be right, because again, super rich). Mountain biking was probably doomed their from the start, and there wasn't much hope for it. But you know that using strava as a tool to justify shutting down trails is going to become more popular with other groups in similar situations.

And honestly, I can't really say that they're wrong. Going for times on multiuse trails that have horses on them is a pretty stupid, and selfish thing to do.

Growing up in that area I concur. The police (and there are lots of them), spend all day and night chasing the high school kids around the hills. No fun allowed, ever. Same applies to mountain biking.

But Strava will come and go, much like all of the good trails in the South Bay. There are DH trails that have been around for 20+ years in Los Altos/Saratoga/Los Gatos. They get shut, they get re-opened, it goes on.
Maybe Kidwoo can make an artsy video with lots of time lapse to document it?

The secret is finding the right rich kid whose backyard is 30 acres of steep stuff. They are out there.....and usually have lots of booze in the house as well.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

...Call me optimistic but personally I hope the data will eventually help. Land managers can't ignore the reality of the numbers much longer. The old-guard anti-bike crusaders are dying off and are being replaced by younger generations who grew up with mountain bikes around and see them as one more piece of a complicated puzzle rather than newcomers with no right to be out there. That goes for the general public as well as the land managers, rangers, etc.

We're testing that now in Addison County. I will provide updates as situation progresses.

 

[gemini2k]

Fortunately none of these governemntal bodies have the resources to enforce the bans on all the trails they are busy trying to shut down.

I'm DEFINITELY not advocating for riding illegal trails. That would be well illegal and immoral.

 

[wydopen]

Horses could get spooked. And a horse getting spooked is fucking scary for all parties, from the equestrian, the bike rider, and the horse, and anybody else using the trail. Which is precisely why, on a multi use trail, using strava and going for KOM's and going as fast as possible is 100% a bad call. Go ride on designated DH trails if you want to go for times.

.

Some places like here all the trails which are pretty much full on DH tracks are multiuse......For me the fun part of riding is going as fast as I can...it's always been like that..well before strava...after years of trail conflicts the mountain bikers here wear bells which helps allot...usually by the time I get to someone they are off the side of the trail...if they arnt I stop or slow down..same as I did before strava too...the bells suck but its better than not riding and once you ride with them for awhile you dont even notice them anymore

As far as the accuracy of phone gps's yes sometimes they can be off, especially on short segments but plenty of times Ive ridden wheel to wheel with a buddy who either had another phone or a garmin and the times were within a few seconds of eachother...with the phone sometimes it will start a segment late or early..if you really care that much you can go on the full site and hit compare and you can tell if it started both people at the same spot...the speeds can be off sometimes too but if you really live and die by your strava data just get a garmin...

As far as government officials scouring strava to look for speeders I wouldn't be worried about it...Im sure it was some dudley do-right who brought it to the attention of the city council...at least I hope so...those 42mph top speeds on an all singletrack descent might not look too good then...

 

[Jm_]

My life is easy, I go by this religion:

Fuck strava.
Fuck imba.
Fuck trek.

Specialized?