[Old Man G Funk]

Here's a great example of what I was talking about in my last post about "asking" for something like alliance. Thanks Enkidu

Are you even aware that they were our allies at that time?

 

[alwaysbroncin19]

Are you even aware that they were our allies at that time?

This is how you continue the alliance. Obviously didn't work.

 

[mantispf2000]

OK, so I've only read bits and pieces of this thread. My youngest brother is in the Army, and had to do 2 stints in Iraq- when we first went over, and in '05. He's home now, in Georgia, and is due to get out in about 6-8 weeks. I and the rest of the family feel so fortunate that he made it home, and we feel for the 2200+ families that won't have mom/dad/bro/sis/etc come home. AND..... with any luck, he's going to be at 24IOP, helping me with my ride (I feel he has an "in" on staying awake at night, so I want to tap in to that).

 

[Old Man G Funk]

This is how you continue the alliance. Obviously didn't work.

No, what obviously didn't work was that we turned our backs on them. Saddam invaded Kuwait while we sat and watched. When the rest of the world got upset, we changed our tone and decided Saddam was an enemy.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

OK, so I've only read bits and pieces of this thread. My youngest brother is in the Army, and had to do 2 stints in Iraq- when we first went over, and in '05. He's home now, in Georgia, and is due to get out in about 6-8 weeks. I and the rest of the family feel so fortunate that he made it home, and we feel for the 2200+ families that won't have mom/dad/bro/sis/etc come home. AND..... with any luck, he's going to be at 24IOP, helping me with my ride (I feel he has an "in" on staying awake at night, so I want to tap in to that).

I'm glad your brother made it back alive. I wish we had never gone there so that the 2200+ families wouldn't have to go through what they are going through now.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

So, let's go further with this, shall we?

We supplied arms to Iraq, including chemical weapons (while simultaneously supplying arms to Iran so that they would blow each other up I guess). We all but green lighted their invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Then, we decided that we didn't want them to invade afterall and attacked them and instituted sanctions. Do you have any evidence that the handshake and asking for alliance WOULDN'T have worked?

(Iran-Contra Affair)
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0825447.html

(Saddam meeting with Rumsfeld)
http://www.democracynow.org/static/rumsfeldcloset.shtml

(Glaspie and Saddam meeting)
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html

(Another Glaspie and Saddam with comments by John Kelley to the US Senate)
http://www.rense.com/general69/wraps.htm

A partial transcript of the meeting is as follows:

US Ambassador Glaspie:

"I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I have lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country (after the Iran-Iraq war). We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your other threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions. Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?"

President Saddam Hussein:

"As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death."

US Ambassador Glaspie:

"What solution would be acceptable?"

President Saddam Hussein:

"If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (which, in Iraq's view, includes Kuwait), then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?"

US Ambassador Glaspie:

"We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasise the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

(Saddam smiles)

On July 31, 1990, two days before the Iraqi invasion, John Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, testified to Congress that the

"United States has no commitment to defend Kuwait and the US has no intention of defending Kuwait if it is attacked by Iraq."

 

[fluff]

These terrorists/insurgents/oppressive leaders are nothing more than bullies. Probably just like the bullies who beat you up in high school. How did you get them to stop f-ing with you? Ask them politely, as we and the UN have done for so long or did you put foot in a**? Maybe she is still beating you up "A"?

There were no insurgents until Saddam was deposed and who was Iraq bullying before that?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

There were no insurgents until Saddam was deposed and who was Iraq bullying before that?

Iraq used to bully me. It kept trying to steal my lunch money, but that all stopped when the UN sanctions made it so hungry that it couldn't get the energy to chase me down.

 

[BikeGeek]

Iraq used to bully me.

That will teach you to make fun of its haircut.

 

[jimmydean]

I'm glad your brother made it back alive. I wish we had never gone there so that the 2200+ families wouldn't have to go through what they are going through now.

Amen to that!

By going there without the support of the UN and without GOOD information (because the WMD thing just didn't work), WE ARE THE BULLIES.

The only thing we have done over there so far is spread instabillity and fear. Yes, it's a sh!thole and is even more so now that we have leveled half the place. We aren't going to "win" EVER. They have insurgents lining up out the door to take a shot at us and will continue to do so until the day we leave.

 

[alwaysbroncin19]

Amen to that!

By going there without the support of the UN and without GOOD information (because the WMD thing just didn't work), WE ARE THE BULLIES.

The only thing we have done over there so far is spread instabillity and fear. Yes, it's a sh!thole and is even more so now that we have leveled half the place. We aren't going to "win" EVER. They have insurgents lining up out the door to take a shot at us and will continue to do so until the day we leave.

Ok, so lemme get this straight. I don't consider myself an authority, on Iraq, but my eyes have seen more than most people's eyes have that are posting in this thread. Hipocrits! You are preaching to me what you "know" to be true of the happenings in Iraq based solely on what media you are exposed to here in the states. If you haven't set foot on Iraqi soil since the war began, you don't know Sh!t about what's actually happening over there. Get it through your friggen heads.

Ok Mr. Dynamite that weak a$$ attitude that spews from your brain ("we won't win, ever") is precisely what these pigs want us to believe! Have you done anything to help the cause? Grasp that! This has turned out to be precisely the kind of political war that actually hinders our tactics, and provides for limited solutions to win. Blame the bleeding f-ing hearts out there in the liberal left of this country for that sh!t. "We can't offend the rights of the insurgents."
These are the same knuckleheads who worry about google not having to give the gov't some information on child pornography."My rights, my rights!" What about the rights of Iraqi women? Children? If it doesn't effect you people directly, you just don't care.
I have to assume that 99% of the people who are posting here, these anti-Americanists, are composed of this same breed of people.

I thank every one who has served over there everytime I see or talk to them. For those I will never get a chance to talk to (dead, for all of you dunderheads out there) I am sorry. But everytime you people mock the war, you are mocking their efforts! I don't care how you sugar-coat your reasonings, that is precisely what you are doing. Why do I know this? Yeah, because I have been a part of this war, and I know what it's like when your fellow "Americans" criticise your efforts. Attack me all you like, when it comes down to it, 95% of your comments are freakin null and void when you talk about how the war is going, because you REALLY DON'T KNOW! Try and understand that.

Throw all of the data you want at me about this and that. History is just that, and the future is uncertain. So we can sit around and wait for it to happen or we can be a little proactive. People change their mind about what's important (Saddam) (Rumsfeld) (Bush). I get the feeling that most of you have changed your mind about staying in the closet. I can tell you that the Washington Post doesn't have the answers, or correct (unbiased) data for that fact.

So stay blind, misguided, and truely uninformed. I'm staying off of this thread.

 

[ohio]

Whatever!

Good comeback.
"Whateva, I'll do what I want!"

 

[ohio]

If you haven't set foot on Iraqi soil since the war began, you don't know Sh!t about what's actually happening over there. Get it through your friggen heads.

Interesting theory. So how much time do I actually have to spend on the ground before I actually "know ****?" One day? A week? How much time have Bush and Cheney spent there?

By your claim, you actually know more about what's happening in Iraq than the general's who are coordinating the offensive. Your worm's eye view apparently makes you the ultimate authority. Having spent a couple of months on the ground, where you can't see or know any further than a couple of miles and a few dozen insurgants at a time apparently nullifies any need for historical perspective or forward-looking strategic thought.

"We can't offend the rights of the insurgents."

Why engage in an argument if you're not going to read anyone else's posts? Ignoring that it's actually impossible to "offend" someone's rights, you seem to be making up stuff to argue against. I've have certainly seen the claim that if we don't win the political war than many civilians will BECOME insurgents, but that's just smart tactics and nothing that the military leadership themselves haven't stated. Are you disagreeing with your superior officers?

These are the same knuckleheads who worry about google not having to give the gov't some information on child pornography.

Thanks again for proving your inability to grasp the issues, and providing endless minutes of entertainment by chasing the squirrel. Go git it, boy, go git it! Git the squirrel!

"My rights, my rights!" What about the rights of Iraqi women? Children? If it doesn't effect you people directly, you just don't care.

Two sentences ago, you claimed we cared too much. Which one is it, schizo?

Yeah, because I have been a part of this war, and I know what it's like when your fellow "Americans" criticise your efforts.

Awww, did someone hurt your feelings while you were over in Iraq? I didn't know you marines were so sensitive. Next time I'll be sure to rub your shoulders and tell you that you don't look fat in those pants, Dorothy.

We can be a little proactive.

Wait, I thought you wanted us to stop spending on foreign aid. Did I misread that?

I'm staying off of this thread.

I can tell.

 

[jimmydean]

Hipocrits! You are preaching to me what you "know" to be true of the happenings in Iraq based solely on what media you are exposed to here in the states. If you haven't set foot on Iraqi soil since the war began, you don't know Sh!t about what's actually happening over there. Get it through your friggen heads.

Ok Mr. Dynamite that weak a$$ attitude that spews from your brain ("we won't win, ever") is precisely what these pigs want us to believe! Have you done anything to help the cause? Grasp that! This has turned out to be precisely the kind of political war that actually hinders our tactics, and provides for limited solutions to win. Blame the bleeding f-ing hearts out there in the liberal left of this country for that sh!t. "We can't offend the rights of the insurgents."
These are the same knuckleheads who worry about google not having to give the gov't some information on child pornography."My rights, my rights!" What about the rights of Iraqi women? Children? If it doesn't effect you people directly, you just don't care.
I have to assume that 99% of the people who are posting here, these anti-Americanists, are composed of this same breed of people.

I thank every one who has served over there everytime I see or talk to them. For those I will never get a chance to talk to (dead, for all of you dunderheads out there) I am sorry. But everytime you people mock the war, you are mocking their efforts! I don't care how you sugar-coat your reasonings, that is precisely what you are doing. Why do I know this? Yeah, because I have been a part of this war, and I know what it's like when your fellow "Americans" criticise your efforts. Attack me all you like, when it comes down to it, 95% of your comments are freakin null and void when you talk about how the war is going, because you REALLY DON'T KNOW! Try and understand that.

Throw all of the data you want at me about this and that. History is just that, and the future is uncertain. So we can sit around and wait for it to happen or we can be a little proactive. People change their mind about what's important (Saddam) (Rumsfeld) (Bush). I get the feeling that most of you have changed your mind about staying in the closet. I can tell you that the Washington Post doesn't have the answers, or correct (unbiased) data for that fact.

So stay blind, misguided, and truely uninformed. I'm staying off of this thread.

Ok, jackass, since you seem to know all. I was part of the S3 (That is opperations shop) for 1-162 (That would be the 1st BN of the 162nd Infantry Unit) until 3 months ago. I KNOW what went on when we were there. I KNOW what was done and what wasn't done. I KNOW how ****ty things are over there.

You don't know me and to say I don't know jack is funny to me. I would bet hard dollars I know a HELL of a lot more than your "head up your ass" knows about how things started and where they've come.

So unless you know who the people are that are posting, you need to shut the f@ck up.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Damn, this guy cant catch a ****ing break. HAHAHAH

 

[MikeD]

Damn, this guy cant catch a ****ing break. HAHAHAH

Dude, he'll be alright as soon as he puts a fresh crease on his jeans, pops on the ol' battalion T-shirt, and heads out to the coffee house. Where, of course, he'll eavesdrop on some goth teenagers sitting around bitching about the government...and then swoop on in!!! muuuaahahahahaahaaaaaaaa!

 

[BurlyShirley]

Dude, he'll be alright as soon as he puts a fresh crease on his jeans, pops on the ol' battalion T-shirt, and heads out to the coffee house. Where, of course, he'll eavesdrop on some goth teenagers sitting around bitching about the government...and then swoop on in!!! muuuaahahahahaahaaaaaaaa!

I have that EXACT DUDE in one of my classes right now. Its great. He's even got the "tribal tat" up his arm, and wears corframs (I have no idea how that's spelled) with faded black jeans. WTF?

EDIT: Taper Legged jeans.

 

[MikeD]

I have that EXACT DUDE in one of my classes right now. Its great. He's even got the "tribal tat" up his arm, and wears corframs (I have no idea how that's spelled) with faded black jeans. WTF?

EDIT: Taper Legged jeans.

You moved to Tennessee...what'd you expect?

Just don't let it flustrate you. Keep him in your peripheal vision, just like you used at boot camp. (You still speak jarhead, don't you?)

 

[BurlyShirley]

You moved to Tennessee...what'd you expect?

Not too much, but in-state tuition is a good thing. Or was, Im transferring to a private school in fall to get away from all the retards.

 

[The Amish]

you cant escape from yourself, any sooner than you'll catch your own tail. Lots of luck to you though:love:

 

[MikeD]

Hey, at least he's there to let you think, "No matter what, at least I'm not him..."

MD

 

[BurlyShirley]

you cant escape from yourself, any sooner than you'll catch your own tail. Lots of luck to you though:love:

You cant keep blaming the world for 'you' getting molested. Its ok.

 

[The Amish]

Hey, at least he's there to let you think, "No matter what, at least I'm not him..."

MD

Not for nothing but bein me is outstanding, I ride 2 brooklyns, bang random hot chics all the time, smoke the greenest of green, and travel my ass off. Yup, it dont get much better than being me!

 

[The Amish]

You cant keep blaming the world for 'you' getting molested. Its ok.

Thanks for caring

 

[BurlyShirley]

Not for nothing but bein me is outstanding, I ride 2 brooklyns, bang random hot chics all the time, smoke the greenest of green, and travel my ass off. Yup, it dont get much better than being me!

except maybe if you got out of that trailer.

 

[ohio]

Not for nothing but bein me is outstanding, I ride 2 brooklyns, bang random hot chics all the time, smoke the greenest of green, and travel my ass off. Yup, it dont get much better than being me!

Till you hit 60, your hips give out and you can't haul lumber anymore, you realize you don't have a penny or a sellable skill to your name, and you finish out your days sucking the teat of social security until your lungs finally give and uncle sam is nice enough to collect your body from the front seat of your geo metro and cremate you at the tax-payers expense.

 

[MikeD]

Till you hit 60, your hips give out and you can't haul lumber anymore, you realize you don't have a penny or a sellable skill to your name, and you finish out your days sucking the teat of social security until your lungs finally give and uncle sam is nice enough to collect your body from the front seat of your geo metro and cremate you at the tax-payers expense.

Here's the funny part...I wasn't talking about him.

And not for nothing, but I think he's got an old IROC with lots of body rust in his future, not a Metro.

 

[The Amish]

Actually I learned to be a mold maker when I got out of highschool so I've already about 8 yrs in the trade under my belt and a pretty solid future if I decided to stick with it. Thats not for me though. I'll be taking off to phoenix next fall to study luthiery, and from there to study abroad in europe, but I'll be sure to think of all you sitting at your desks, wankin of to ridemonkey while I'm gone. Dont cry cause you miss me things will be ok

 

[kidwoo]

Two brooklyns?

HOT chicks?

Wow.


What's the secret?

 

[syadasti]

HOT chicks?

Wow.

What's the secret?

All the hot chicks moved from California to Upstate NY

 

[The Amish]

There is no secret. This is america. Brooklyns and Hot Chics for everyone!

 

[jimmydean]

Where did PV2 AssHat go? Did he figure out that there might be other ex-military types on the face of the earth?

 

[Changleen]

There is no secret. This is america. Brooklyns and Hot Chics for everyone!

Except for Blacks, right? And Arabs, oh and Mexicans...

 

[alwaysbroncin19]

Ok, jackass, since you seem to know all. I was part of the S3 (That is opperations shop) for 1-162 (That would be the 1st BN of the 162nd Infantry Unit) until 3 months ago. I KNOW what went on when we were there. I KNOW what was done and what wasn't done. I KNOW how ****ty things are over there.

You don't know me and to say I don't know jack is funny to me. I would bet hard dollars I know a HELL of a lot more than your "head up your ass" knows about how things started and where they've come.

So unless you know who the people are that are posting, you need to shut the f@ck up.

I have to break silence to say.....If the shoe fits, wear it. Thanks for your service.

 

[MikeD]

Actually I learned to be a mold maker when I got out of highschool so I've already about 8 yrs in the trade under my belt and a pretty solid future if I decided to stick with it. Thats not for me though. I'll be taking off to phoenix next fall to study luthiery, and from there to study abroad in europe, but I'll be sure to think of all you sitting at your desks, wankin of to ridemonkey while I'm gone. Dont cry cause you miss me things will be ok

Wow, your life DOES rule! Sorry!!! None of us can compete with that. And wow...EUROPE...whoa...I mean, Pheonix is amazing enough, but your level of sophistication will soon be way beyond us. Too bad I'll never experience anything like that.

I love how people on the Internet mock other people for being on the Internet too.

MD

 

[narlus]

Not for nothing but bein me is outstanding, I ride 2 brooklyns, bang random hot chics all the time, smoke the greenest of green, and travel my ass off. Yup, it dont get much better than being me!

what are yr favorite stamps on yr passport? thats surprising to hear; you come off as a real xenophobe.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

what are yr favorite stamps on yr passport? thats surprising to hear; you come off as a real xenophobe.

by "travel my ass off" i think he means "cross the county line twice a day, and the state line once a month".

 

[Reactor]

Ok, so lemme get this straight. I don't consider myself an authority, on Iraq, but my eyes have seen more than most people's eyes have that are posting in this thread. Hipocrits! You are preaching to me what you "know" to be true of the happenings in Iraq based solely on what media you are exposed to here in the states. If you haven't set foot on Iraqi soil since the war began, you don't know Sh!t about what's actually happening over there. Get it through your friggen heads.

Ok Mr. Dynamite that weak a$$ attitude that spews from your brain ("we won't win, ever") is precisely what these pigs want us to believe! Have you done anything to help the cause? Grasp that! This has turned out to be precisely the kind of political war that actually hinders our tactics, and provides for limited solutions to win. Blame the bleeding f-ing hearts out there in the liberal left of this country for that sh!t. "We can't offend the rights of the insurgents."
These are the same knuckleheads who worry about google not having to give the gov't some information on child pornography."My rights, my rights!" What about the rights of Iraqi women? Children? If it doesn't effect you people directly, you just don't care.
I have to assume that 99% of the people who are posting here, these anti-Americanists, are composed of this same breed of people.

I thank every one who has served over there everytime I see or talk to them. For those I will never get a chance to talk to (dead, for all of you dunderheads out there) I am sorry. But everytime you people mock the war, you are mocking their efforts! I don't care how you sugar-coat your reasonings, that is precisely what you are doing. Why do I know this? Yeah, because I have been a part of this war, and I know what it's like when your fellow "Americans" criticise your efforts. Attack me all you like, when it comes down to it, 95% of your comments are freakin null and void when you talk about how the war is going, because you REALLY DON'T KNOW! Try and understand that.

Throw all of the data you want at me about this and that. History is just that, and the future is uncertain. So we can sit around and wait for it to happen or we can be a little proactive. People change their mind about what's important (Saddam) (Rumsfeld) (Bush). I get the feeling that most of you have changed your mind about staying in the closet. I can tell you that the Washington Post doesn't have the answers, or correct (unbiased) data for that fact.

So stay blind, misguided, and truely uninformed. I'm staying off of this thread.

Look kid, a lot of the people on this forum have done a lot of things in the service of their country. A lot of us risked our lives day in and day out, some of us lost friends, some of us were in the intelligence community and a few still are, or have contacts there. Ranting and raving isn't going to help your cause. I have friends in Iraq right now risking their lives, and they aren't 19 yo flatfoots, they're high level personnel. The information they are giving me is scary.

Maybe you were in Iraq, maybe. Maybe you saw the tactical situation. But it's apparent you have absolutely no idea clue as to Intel, politics or strategy. It's apparent you've bought the administrations line, and probably have little if any capacity for independent thought.

Rights of Iraqi women? Iraqi women were far better off under Saddam, they had rights, they even had some power. Now we're going to leave an Islamic based state, primed for civil war. Women rights have already deteriorated, and they'll get worse. They'll be regarded as cattle, baby producing machines, slaves, and little mire

Iraqi children... Thousands died in the first few months after the war when hospitals ran out of medicine, and because of our bombing they couldn't get clean drinking water. More women and children will die if the country falls into civil war.


Calling people who don't agree with you unamerican worked pretty well for McCarthy, it's even working for Bush. But it's not true. You should read a little of Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson. Disagreeing with your countries policy and speaking up about id the sign of a true patriot.

 

[Westy]

Actually I learned to be a mold maker when I got out of highschool so I've already about 8 yrs in the trade under my belt and a pretty solid future if I decided to stick with it. Thats not for me though. I'll be taking off to phoenix next fall to study luthiery, and from there to study abroad in europe, but I'll be sure to think of all you sitting at your desks, wankin of to ridemonkey while I'm gone. Dont cry cause you miss me things will be ok

Moldmaking is a good job. But just remember, manufacurers aren't exactly stumbling over themselves to keep those jobs in the US.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I have to break silence to say.....If the shoe fits, wear it. Thanks for your service.

Yeah, and you got pwned.