[Udi]

Chasing measurements on the L04C or L02A brake pads. I believe they are used in RS805 and RS505 brakes. Just a simple length and width measurement on the rectangular portion of the brake pad backing, and the pad material itself would be excellent.

They look like this for reference:

 

[slimshady]

Peter Verdone rambled a bit over cross compatibility between mountain and road pads. Maybe you could start there, although I'm not sure I'd trust a guy who deliberately put mineral oil in a set of DOT 5.1 disk brakes because he knows best.

 

[jonKranked]

although I'm not sure I'd trust a guy who deliberately put mineral oil in a set of DOT 5.1 disk brakes because he knows best.

this was pretty entertaining

 

[slimshady]

this was pretty entertaining

I gotta say I admire your optimistic take on this matter.

 

[jonKranked]

I gotta say I admire your optimistic take on this matter.

i'm an idiot and even i know that you don't put mineral oil in a DOT system because it will ruin the seals and gaskets.

 

[slimshady]

i'm an idiot and even i know that you don't put mineral oil in a DOT system because it will ruin the seals and gaskets.

I know, I was talking about Peter Verdone... Every now and then I like to wander by his blog just to confirm I'm not that damaged...

 

[jonKranked]

I know, I was talking about Peter Verdone... Every now and then I like to wander by his blog just to confirm I'm not that damaged...

after reading that one article i'm sure to avoid it.

"i only use VIRGIN oil"

 

[Udi]

Unfortunately that doesn't help at all, since he only compares the XT pads (new vs. old).

I'm interested specifically in the L04C or L02A pads - hoping someone works at a shop and could maybe take a pic next to an XT pad, or roughly measure perhaps?

The PVD article was hilarious though - I was expecting him to disprove a well-known chemical theory with a groundbreaking discovery. Instead he destroyed a SRAM brake. I think the nobel peace prize is respected more highly than the chemistry one anyway.

 

[Sandwich]

what the hell are you putting those in, udi?

 

[HAB]

I'm going to a shop tonight that probably has some. I'll bring my calipers.

 

[HAB]

They didn't have have any in stock. Sorry.

 

[Flo33]

My fav lbs neither. But on saturday I'll be going to a big roadie shop to pick up some parts, will ask there as well.

 

[Udi]

Thanks, much appreciated guys.

 

[Flo33]

@Udi I have been to the shop. They didn't have the 2016 models in stock, so neither L04C nor L02A first hand information here.
What they had was a BR-RS785 equipped bike I took the pads out, those were J02A, exactly XT ICE-Tec pads.

The mechanic said that the new ones, L models, only have a slightly higher carrier plate. But no proof here

What I did find out:

1st digit = pad form
G = without fins
F = with fins (old)
J = with fins (new)

2nd + 3rd digit = material liner pad
01 = Resin (old)
02 = Resin (new)
03 = Metall (old)
04 = Metall (neu)

4th (+ 5th) digit = material carrier
A = aluminum
S = steel
C = composite
Ti = titan


Edit: Found something, don't laugh: http://www.peterverdone.com/shimano-brake-pads/ "L04C is a special pad for flat-mount road and should not be confused with the others as it is not compatible."

 

[Mr Nug]

Sorry just saw this post. I don't have the official shimano pads handy but do have the ones I got from uberbike which list road disc pads separately from the mountain pads.

The profile of both pads are identical but the road disc backer is about 20% thinner and the mountain pad itself has almost double the meat. Not sure if that's a cost saving move though...

 

[Udi]

I think the thickness difference might just be from the aftermarket pad, but am not sure. I just wanted to see how the face surface area compared to the XT to be honest (for use in a different brake - RO - which according to Mike Levy @ Pinkbike are completely unrideable, though mine have been awesome for a Queenstown season ).

Anyway, I took a gamble and ordered some genuine L04C, hopefully they fit. Just keen for a proper heatsink pad (not the two-piece aftermarket heatsink BS, I think Shimano holds a patent on the original design, so I think they will always make the best ones).

 

[troy]

Frankenbrakes

@Udi You can always use one of those:

 

[troy]

For dimensions You should check out some aliexpress auctions

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/bicycle-disc-brake-pads-for-Shimano-XTR-2011-M-985-M785-M666-M988/761860548.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.ZnzCYh&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_3_10017_10005_10006_10034_10021_507_10022_10020_10018_10019,searchweb201603_2&btsid=943e71bb-6a3b-47e0-8069-0798fd2bd112

Finned pads dimensions:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MTB-Bicycle-Disc-Brake-Pads-For-Shimano-XT-M785-M965-M615-SLX-color-Aluminum-Alloy-Super/32462037016.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.38.pC1VPB&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_3_10017_10005_10006_10034_10021_507_10022_10020_10018_10019,searchweb201603_2&btsid=4b962574-e454-4682-9c7d-f988a89c43ee

 

[Udi]

Thanks Troy, unfortunately I have already explored these avenues and nothing good came of them.

1. The SwissStop and KoolStop pads are both going to provide below-par heat dissipation because the pad compound is mostly organic and acts as an insulator. Neither brand offers a sintered heatsink pad. Sintered pads use mostly copper = excellent conductor.

2. The pads you linked RE: dimensions are for M785, but I've already tried those and they require substantial modification to fit. On top of that just for reference (hopefully to save someone else the trouble), the aliexpress sintered compound, in particular on the heatsink XT pads, is inferior in performance compared to the genuine Shimano pad - I tried some. The road brakes/pads are new (~April 2015) and I couldn't find measurements for them anywhere.

I definitely think the genuine Shimano heatsink pads are the best for a number of reasons. Hopefully I can make them work.

 

[Sandwich]

Why the hell would they make a radiator pad with an organic compound? That defeats the whole purpose. Even shimano doesn't do that.

 

[tacubaya]

Why the hell would they make a radiator pad with an organic compound? That defeats the whole purpose. Even shimano doesn't do that.

Yes they do, F01A.

 

[Sandwich]

Well that's weird

 

[Udi]

I ended up taking a gamble and ordering the pads without measurements.
The genuine L04C sintered pads seem to fit directly in the RO caliper, no modification needed. They are ever so slightly smaller than stock but close enough that it all seems to work fine.

 

[StiHacka]

That bike is way too clean. Do you even shred, bro?

 

[jonKranked]

I ended up taking a gamble and ordering the pads without measurements.
The genuine L04C sintered pads seem to fit directly in the RO caliper, no modification needed. They are ever so slightly smaller than stock but close enough that it all seems to work fine.

what other franken-nonsense is going on with that bike?

 

[Udi]

what other franken-nonsense is going on with that bike?

I honestly don't remember half of it and you probably don't want to know.
Most recently though... been running 650b F / 26 R since the start of this year. Is B-26 the preferred franken-nonsense term?

That bike is way too clean. Do you even shred, bro?

Nah but I 'shed a lot. Tis the season of shed.

If you look closely though the mud droplets on the spokes give away the recent power washing. That and the 10 billion creaks I need to sort out.

 

[jonKranked]

I honestly don't remember half of it and you probably don't want to know.

wouldn't have asked if i didn't wanna know.

Is B-26

you sank my battleship!

 

[HAB]

Oh interesting.

How's the lever feel on those ROs? I haven't ridden anything Formula since the first generation The Ones quite a while back. Those were world beaters at the time, but the levers were flexy as hell, and the stroke was longer than I'd like. The XTRs I have on my Megatrail have had a pretty good run, but the front caliper is starting to weep fluid a little, as they're wont to do. I like the Shimano lever feel and I like not dealing with DOT fluid, but they have their issues too.

 

[CBJ]

@HAB have you tried to warranty. Shimano has extended warranty on XTR and Dura Ace.

 

[HAB]

I know. Been meaning to, just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[Udi]

Oh interesting.
How's the lever feel on those ROs?

I really like the new lever, have a go on some if you can.

They're called the RO-Racing (usually in a gunmetal grey/blue color), and they moved the lever pivot closer to the bar + let you run the reach closer. I find the stroke is much shorter than Zee/Saint, maybe slightly better than XT/XTR too - equal at best anyway.

The lever body is definitely quite stiff (cold forged) and much nicer ergonomically than the old ones, which were pretty horrible being so far out.

The other thing I like is that all the small parts are available (easily, at least in Europe/Canada/Australia so far) so if you do get a weeping caliper seal you can replace that instead of the whole brake.

I do think the servo wave gives Shimano an edge over the other brands in raw power, and their "proper" heatsink pads are genuinely the best, but the throw variation and reliability issues have kept me coming back to these.

New on right:

FYI Pinkbike gave them a scathing review but I'd try a pair and make up your own mind, because I personally like them, and buckoW on here runs them too (if they work in Champery…).

 

[HAB]

Thanks. That new lever does look way better. The ones I had were actually the even older lever style, with the master cylinder running parallel to the bar. I didn't have great experience with their spares availability in the States, but that was a long time ago- circa 2008 I think?- so I shouldn't over index on that experience.

 

[buckoW]

How are the Shimano pads working out?

 

[csermonet]

How are the Shimano pads working out?

I'm interested too. I have T1's, and if these heatsink road pads provide some appreciable benefits that's a pretty cool(aharhar) and cost-effective upgrade.

As someone else asked earlier, please share what other franken-non-sense you have going on with your bike. You and/or Ben(buckow) should have a thread about your personal DH rigs and what unique/different/franken-non-sense you guys have going on that us plebs would find cool and interesting. I know you guys have some cool stuff that you could share with us that we could try experimenting with

 

[HAB]

The other issue I had with those old The Ones was that the fluid reservoir in the lever wasn't big enough, so if they started with a good bleed and new pads, they'd start to feel really spongy once the pads were ~50% worn down. You could "fix" it by overfilling them with the pistons not fully retracted, but then you'd have to let some fluid back out when resetting the pistons when you went to new pads. I assume they've fixed that by now?

 

[Udi]

Sorry just checked back on this thread for some XT measurements and noticed the replies.

How are the Shimano pads working out?

Really well, I did a bunch of runs on them today and I think usually by now normal sintered pads would have started glazing and losing bite, these still seem to be good. Only small complaint is Shimano put a taper on the bottom of the pad material, so they have to wear a bit to get their full surface area.

The other issue I had with those old The Ones was that the fluid reservoir in the lever wasn't big enough, so if they started with a good bleed and new pads, they'd start to feel really spongy once the pads were ~50% worn down. You could "fix" it by overfilling them with the pistons not fully retracted, but then you'd have to let some fluid back out when resetting the pistons when you went to new pads. I assume they've fixed that by now?

This was fixed a while ago I believe (in 2011), I ran the '11 brakes for 5 years and ran many sets of pads to the backing without needing to rebleed (including pulling the pad springs to get a few more runs before hitting the backing). The 2010 was the last model to have that issue to my knowledge.

I'm interested too. I have T1's, and if these heatsink road pads provide some appreciable benefits that's a pretty cool(aharhar) and cost-effective upgrade.

Give me another month, but so far so good, very happy for a drop-in upgrade.
They should fit the T1 directly too.

 

[kidwoo]

@Udi Still digging them?

I got some of those mineral oil brakes formula is making and they're good. The pads feel like not metal though.

I'm going to buy a second pair for my dh bike but want different pads.

I know you wanted the heatsink of the shimanos but were you glazing these?

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Formula/Brake-Pads-for-Oval-TheOne-Mega-RX-R1-R1R-T1-C1-p18398/

 

[HAB]

I got some of those mineral oil brakes formula is making and they're good. The pads feel like not metal though.

That so? The Shimanos on my Megatrail are getting all Shimano-y and inconsistent (after 2 years of actually being pretty solid) so I'm thinking about moving on. The RO Racing was my frontrunner, but if the mineral oil ones are good I'd be down to save money/not deal with DOT.

 

[kidwoo]

I've got two rides on them now so like pinkbike and vital "we have no reason to believe these won't hold up to the rigors and abuse of something something........"

They may turn out to be total lemons but with daylight savings over, I can't ride after work any more and my bikes sit for five days at a time. I can't stand getting on either of them and having to burn the damn brake fluid off the pads before I can ride safely. I'm desperate.

I didn't have any of their specific fluid so I could only do a half assed bleed with what was in them to shorten the lines. I know I have a crappy bleed on the rear one and no hiccups so far. That's enough for me.

 

[HAB]

I can't stand getting on either of them and having to burn the damn brake fluid off the pads before I can ride safely. I'm desperate.

... were you actually doing that?