[kazlx]

Out of curiousness. I really want a new pedaly trail bike at some point. Just one of the possibilities. All I have is my Chromag Stylus right now. I don't mind the hard tail, just not as my only trail bike, plus it's a medium when I should really be on a large. I think it's between something like a Phantom and maybe a SB66C. Something used, around or below the $2500 range. For all things shuttle and lift, I have my DH bike, so....

 

[jonKranked]

phantom and sb66 are pretty different bikes. travel and wheel size being the primary differences. if you are looking for something more like the sb66 but from banshee you'd want the spitfire.

 

[kazlx]

Yea, I realize that. Not sure where I which direction I want to go. I have a couple friends that are killing it on short travel 29ers for all around stuff, but they are tiny compared to me, so doesn't help much in the testing department. I've always like the 66 and would have bought one (had a deposit down, got screwed, long story) and wouldn't mind a SB6, but I think those are just out of the budget right now.

I did ride a coworkers Ibis Ripley and have to say, it was pretty nice for 80% of the type of trails I would ride a trail bike on around here. It was pleasant to pedal. I'm seriously getting kind of chunky and need to get back to some pedal oriented rides. Just haven't been all that motivated to ride my Chromag lately, being a combo of getting beatup and too small.

 

[jonKranked]

i'd still throw the spitfire into the ring... current versions have replaceable dropouts so you can run 26" / 650. travel / geo is closer to the SB66.

 

[kazlx]

It's definitely an option. Don't think I want to deal with the version 1, but I'd consider the later setup with the newer design. I'm on a Banshee Legend for my DH bike and I'm happy with how the bike feels.

 

[jonKranked]

i opted for the spitfire route because it was the slacker/aggressive geo i wanted (closer to a DH bike than XC). its probably a little more bike than i need for most of my local trails (i could also swap some parts to drop weight), however when i venture out farther to some of the bigger trails (more elev, steep, aggressive) its very much at home and that's what i was after. my "home" trails would be better suited to a 4" travel XC frame, but two f/s trail bikes aren't in the budget. i opted for the more aggressive route.

 

[canadmos]

I'm biased, but the Spitfire is a great bike. I use mine for everything, except DH (did ride it at Bromont once though).

Not the lightest bike out there, but its also not too pricey and I'd never question it's ability to handle any trail.

I think this is a good excuse to post some Spitfire pictures.

 

[kazlx]

That's kind of where I'm at. I don't really 'need' a longer travel trail bike for the most part. If we shuttle, I have a DH bike. Torn on deciding to go a little more XC or more aggressive.

 

[canadmos]

Torn on deciding to go a little more XC or more aggressive.

Coincidentally, I'd say that's right where the Spitfire fits in.

My buddies Transition Covert feels like an absolute pig compared to it.

 

[jonKranked]

for what it's worth i do have an XC hardtail, so i'm covered on that end of the spectrum. my back still isn't 100% from my injury last year, so the hardtail hasn't been seeing a lot of use (it aggravates my back still).

 

[jonKranked]

one factor in my decision is that i'd rather have a bike that's a little bit of overkill in more instances than finding myself wishing i had "more bike" in others. this is just personal preference.

 

[kazlx]

Honestly, that's what I don't want (a bike feeling like a pig). I know it's cliche, but I want something that pedals relatively well, and I'm perfectly ok giving up DH performance to get it. I feel like I'm a strong enough rider now to overcome more shortcomings on the DH side. When I started riding, I didn't care about how well anything pedaled, just wanted the most travel because I felt like it would help me on the descent. I've ridden some gnarly stuff on my hardtail, I just want some cushion while getting around most places.

 

[canadmos]

brb, going to go ride my Spitfire on some muddy trail to be able to provide some irrelevant feedback.

 

[kazlx]

??

http://www.jensonusa.com/Banshee-Spitfire-Jenson-GX-2015-Bike

 

[jonKranked]

Honestly, that's what I don't want (a bike feeling like a pig). I know it's cliche, but I want something that pedals relatively well, and I'm perfectly ok giving up DH performance to get it. I feel like I'm a strong enough rider now to overcome more shortcomings on the DH side. When I started riding, I didn't care about how well anything pedaled, just wanted the most travel because I felt like it would help me on the descent. I've ridden some gnarly stuff on my hardtail, I just want some cushion while getting around most places.

i wouldn't say my spitfire is a big, but at the moment its definitely not as nimble as my xc hardtail. i know that's an really a fair comparison. however a big part of that is that my build is by no means light.

-slx cranks w/ lg1 chainguide
-deity dirty 30 bars (early gen)
-mavic 325 rims. old. heavy. they came from a set of dee traks but i had them and they are in basically perfect shape
-not tubeless
-old fork; 2008 revelation with 06(?) pike lowers.

so yes, would drop a few lbs from it. not that i know what it weighs right now anyways.

 

[jonKranked]

??

http://www.jensonusa.com/Banshee-Spitfire-Jenson-GX-2015-Bike

that's a pretty dag nasty deal. i paid $1600 for frame only back in June. came with a double barrel inline CS tho.

 

[kazlx]

Granted there are some nice used builds, but that's cheaper than anything I've seen for a used one.

 

[stoney]

I m seriously impressed by the SB66c. I'm going to be putting it onto a slight diet and using it for Xterra races this summer. With heavy rubber it makes for a rowdy, dh-focused trail bike.

Weight wise it's at 29.9 lbs:
XL frame
Pike
819/Hope Pro2
Formula The One 8"/7"
Thomson Stem
Easton Havoc Al
RS Reverb
X9 1x10
XT Cranks
Maxxis Advantage 2.45

 

[jonKranked]

Maxxis Advantage 2.45

if you ever find these tires in this size again let me know

 

[StiHacka]

Just to throw it in the mix: http://www.cambriabike.com/Spider-29c-Foundation-29in-Full-Suspension-Bike-Red-Large.asp

 

[jstuhlman]

UNRIDEABRUUUUUUU

fer rill tho, 20 years into serious riding, i am still in the "ride as much travel as you can possibly deal with" camp. with today's linkage designs, lightweight frames (either carbon or alu) and great air shocks like float/pike and ccdba, there's not much reason not to.

 

[stoney]

if you ever find these tires in this size again let me know

No. Because I will be buying them for myself.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Spittys are heavy, but they are surprisingly efficient pedalers. All the hype about it being the DHr's trail bike is true. I love mine and I do long ass rides on it. And I too used to be chunky, ok bouncer size, but the Spitty makes me wanna ride. Now, I'm an OCD trail rat who needs smaller clothes.

Buy the Spitty unless you want to stay on the fast track to Fatty Town.

 

[mandown]

Can't you just machine one?

 

[Jozz]

I'll just throw Transition Scout in here and leave...

 

[jackalope]

@SuboptimusPrime is the RM resource you need, as he has a lot of saddle time on a mk2 Spitty and a Phantom. Having very limited riding time on both his rigs, I thought the Phantom was an absolute ripper for most trails people actually ride. For reference, I ride a GG Megajizz and felt instantly comfortable on the Phantom. It definitely pedaled well, had a nice playful pop and can monster truck a respectable amount of gnar. With only like 105mm of rear travel, I think it'd get overwhelmed pretty quickly in truly nasty, high speed chundgnar, but anything short of that it's super solid. The Spitty feels closer to my Megajizz in terms of weight and overall ride quality imo. Won't be sad with either one, but the Phantom is basically a Chromag Surface with a useful amount of rear travel.

 

[canadmos]

Well, I still have the same thoughts and feelings for the Spitfire, as I did yesterday; AWESOME.

FWIW, NTTIAWWT, FYI and YMMV, but for the last two months I have left my shock on the Spitfire in the full-derp (open) position and just forgot about it. Pedals just as good as in the other settings, I think.

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

Jackalope pretty much nailed it. I've spent 3 years on a V2 spitty and have loved it for all types of trail riding...it isn't super light, but truly does pedal very well. This makes it a pretty fun trail bike that also kicks ass for mini-DH type duties. I had a chance to pick up a complete demo phantom last year for a ridiculous price so said what the hell. It weighs about the same as the spitty, is equally burly/stiff and pedals significantly better (which you'd expect having 105mm of travel). For fun trail riding it's great--I like it better than the spitty for the rolling trails we have here. It jumps and pops over things really well and is really fun to mob over moderate gnar too. On a recent trip to the mountains (Pisgah) a buddy borrowed the phantom and followed me and jackalope on our spitty/megajizz respectively. Said friend was pretty damn close behind us even on some pretty real trails (Bennet gap and full Black Mountain). That said, he was definitely more tired than I was by the end of the day--think he was working harder on the downhills (and not in shape even by my standards). Point being that the phantom really is quite capable in the right hands.

Bottom line, I really like having both. If you are all "fuck uphills, I just want to ride corners and downhills like I'm on a DH bike" then get the spitty (or SB, etc). If you are thinking "I want a bike that is optimal for 85% of my actual riding but that can handle some fun shit" then get the phantom (or smuggler, etc).

 

[amishmatt]

I've been on my V2 Spitfire for 18 months now and it's faster everywhere than my prior bikes that were lighter and shorter travel. I came from a Blur 4x to a Nickel to the Spitfire, and the Spitfire reminds me of the 4x, but just better in every way.

With carbon wheels, cranks and bars, a 1x setup and a dropper I'm around 29 lbs., but it "rides light." Seriously.

And as for feeling pigish/big, just ride faster. I was initially concerned that the longer, slacker bike with more travel and bigger wheels would be a handful in the tight rocky stuff around here, but it's a total non-issue, and I wouldn't hesitate to go with more bike next time around. It pedals so well I run it full open and don't usually bother to flip a switch even for paved road climbs.

My only complaint is the seat angle, which could be a little steeper. And of course, I wish there was a size in between the medium and large frames - story of my life.

I agree with @jstuhlman, these newfangled bikes are so good at everthing, why not ride as much travel as you can deal with?

 

[kickstand]

That's kind of where I'm at. I don't really 'need' a longer travel trail bike for the most part. If we shuttle, I have a DH bike. Torn on deciding to go a little more XC or more aggressive.

I have found the Santa Cruz 5010 to strike a real nice balance here. Like jonkranked my local trails lend themselves to 80-100mm bikes, hard tails, etc. But if I just drive a few hours or go out of state the 120-140mm bikes start to fit in very well. The 5010 and other bikes in it's class have really impressed me with their ability to descend. Unless I'm riding chairlifts I ride the 5010 and it rarely disappoints.

 

[kickstand]

I'll just throw Transition Scout in here and leave...

having ridden this back to back with my 5010, I'll agree that this is another great option. I've always been a fan of the transition bikes.

 

[kazlx]

Bottom line, I really like having both. If you are all "fuck uphills, I just want to ride corners and downhills like I'm on a DH bike" then get the spitty (or SB, etc). If you are thinking "I want a bike that is optimal for 85% of my actual riding but that can handle some fun shit" then get the phantom (or smuggler, etc).

This is actually the info that I was looking for. I really like the idea of the Phantom just because of the optimized pedaling, but I could see at some point having both. I might see if I can rent both before I buy something, but Banshees are hard to find around here.

 

[jonKranked]

This is actually the info that I was looking for. I really like the idea of the Phantom just because of the optimized pedaling, but I could see at some point having both. I might see if I can rent both before I buy something, but Banshees are hard to find around here.

the spitfire pedals well for sure, my issues are surrounding the hefty build currently on it, and my own lack of fitness.

 

[kazlx]

I have normally always been in the camp of 'the most available travel', but it really was an eye-opener when I rode a friend's Ibis Ripley. I don't have all that much to compare to (as far as bikes that 'pedal well'), but man, it pedaled extremely well. Way better than any 6" bike I've ridden. And honestly, I think that bike would be ideal for quite a bit of the riding around here. One of the guys I ride with regularly has just been killing it on a BMC.

 

[jonKranked]

i think we've reached a point that pretty much all (at least a majority) of the mid to high end bikes out there are really really good. it's more a matter of picking out which one is right for you.

 

[kazlx]

I definitely agree with that. I think I've gone the 'mini-dh' bike route for so long, I'm willing to try something a little more XC/trail oriented. That's why I was asking about the Phantom.

 

[kickstand]

i think we've reached a point that pretty much all (at least a majority) of the mid to high end bikes out there are really really good. it's more a matter of picking out which one is right for you.

Agreed. It also opened my eyes this year, by attempting some things I chickened out on in the past, on my trail bike. How truely capable todays mid travel bikes can be. Things I used to say "if I was on my DH bike" I now have the confidence in my trail bike to do.

 

[jonKranked]

I definitely agree with that. I think I've gone the 'mini-dh' bike route for so long, I'm willing to try something a little more XC/trail oriented. That's why I was asking about the Phantom.

i think today's mini DH bike is even more mini.

 

[jstuhlman]

i just want my crabon uzzi, dammit

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

I definitely agree with that. I think I've gone the 'mini-dh' bike route for so long, I'm willing to try something a little more XC/trail oriented. That's why I was asking about the Phantom.

I think we are coming from the same place for the most part. The thing that is fun about the phantom is that it kinda makes more tame trails fun again cause you are closer to riding at the limits of the bike, which I think feels cool. For example, there is this downhill with a little natural lip where you can pop off of it, land in a little depression, bounce out of the depression, landing in a loose turn before hitting another little step down. On the spitfire, it's fun as hell, but that bike just runs everything over and gives no fycks--you can basically just ignore all the above features and carve an arc through the whole thing. On the phantom, I nearly bottom out in the depression, bounce out of it in the air, land in a bit of a drift and huck the step down thing to flat. I bet it's no faster or slower, but feels really fun on a bike with so little travel.

I guess you could compare it to fishing. Sure you can fish for a 1-2 pound bass using salt water tackle but it's way more fun to do it with a tiny whipy 2-3 weight fly rod.

To be clear, there is no wrong answer--the bikes on your list are all awesome. At this point you are selecting the riding feel/experience you want most.