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Anyone running a 650b front wheel?

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Thinking off trying this out just because. I should be getting a Dorado here shortly and thought I might try it out for no other reason than experimentation.
 

Tetreault

Monkey
Nov 23, 2005
877
0
SoMeWhErE NoWhErE
No, I have spent considerable time on dual 650's, and i didn't like it.

But when i think about it, it was mostly that i had problems with the larger diameter in the back, and limiting the in air mobility. I would be interested to try a 27.5/26 combo, Keep in mind that it will slacken out the HA about a degree, so experimenting with an angle-set to tighten it up might also need to happen.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
I'm running a Banshee Legend right now and will be leaving the 26 in the back. I know it will raise the front end and bb a bit, which I'm ok with. I think I'm going to give it shot anyway. I have also thought about a angle-set like mentioned to bring back the head angle, since the Banshee is already pretty slack. I'm sure there are plenty that think it's fine like it is. But what the hell. Worst case...I make a couple runs and put a 26 wheel back on.

The only thing I'm curious about is I know the Dorado itself is a little taller than my 888, so the combo of the fork and wheel could slacken it out too much or make it too tall.
 
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Tetreault

Monkey
Nov 23, 2005
877
0
SoMeWhErE NoWhErE
The only thing I'm curious about is I know the Dorado itself is a little taller than my 888, so the combo of the fork and wheel could slacken it out too much or make it too tall.
Spot on, rim and tire selection will make a difference as well, stock on the legend is just a hair under 64* i believe? expect just under 63 with the 27.5 and a normal sized tire, adding the dorado into the equation i would expect to be sitting at ~62.5, not unheard of for a head angle, but defiantly noticeably slacker than what you have been running.

also to note, the 27.5 takes away steering agility compared to 26's, something people don't mention nearly as often. So with the slack head angle and the 27.5 you might find your steering to be quite dead.

Try it out if the idea intrigues you, but i would keep in mind that you might have to tweak the head angle to tighten it up a bit down the road.
 
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kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Not one for lame hype, but just happened to switch bikes with someone at a local trail the other day and try a cheap 29er. Overall, not for me, but the roll over was night and day compared to my 26 hard tail. Obviously, to each his own, but some of the 'pros' are undeniable. I was fully not expecting to notice that big of a difference.
 
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Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,508
822
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
My XC bike is an Ibis Mojo SL with Maverick DUC fork, 26" rear 27.5" front. Love it. Next year I'll probably replace the 180mm fork and 26" wheel on my enduro bike with a 160 or 170 and 27.5". I want to keep the frames and 26" rear wheels cuz I love the short chainstays and light, flicky feel. On my DH bike I'm in less of a hurry to change to a bigger front wheel. With such a slack headangle I don't feel the front wheel hang up like I do on the enduro and XC bikes. I think body position and the pitch of terrain also make this different. Also DH tires are heavy and a larger diameter will make it quite a bit heavier. I don't like the "big wheels gyroscope" feel of 29ers and I wonder if a 27.5" DH wheel and tire will have the same negative effects.

When riding 27.5" and 29" full suspension bikes I can feel the roll-over benefits of the larger front wheel but I feel no benefit of having a rear wheel larger than 26". I notice the negative effects of larger wheels much more in the rear. I'm baffled more people haven't noticed this and bikes with larger front wheels aren't common. Why do you suppose cyclists want both wheels to be the same diameter?
 
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kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Not sure. I figure with the Dorado up front, it should be easy to test out. I think I can get away with a lighter casing tire on the front anyway since I rarely have issues with the front wheel, plus I will be running tubeless. I figure worst case is I swap the wheel back and have a spare 650b wheel.
 

Tetreault

Monkey
Nov 23, 2005
877
0
SoMeWhErE NoWhErE
I don't like the "big wheels gyroscope" feel of 29ers and I wonder if a 27.5" DH wheel and tire will have the same negative effects.
this is the main reason i hate 27.5, I'm only 5'10, ride mediums all the time as a like a smaller feel, and find that my riding style has always been active with lots of body movement, the gyroscope feel you mention i notice immediately when going up in wheel size, especially in the back.

the other reason why i don't like 27.5, is because you gain the roll-over benefit, but thus you steepen the head angle so that the handling isn't sloppy, and you loose suspension travel to keep the front end down. So really you just end up exactly where you were before

Steeper head angle + Larger Wheel Diameter + Less Travel = Slack + Smaller Wheel + More Travel


Probably a useless explanation, but this is how i see it, its a fix for a problem that doesn't exist.

When riding 27.5" and 29" full suspension bikes I can feel the roll-over benefits of the larger front wheel but I feel no benefit of having a rear wheel larger than 26".
I like the idea of running 27.5 front for riding styles where it makes sense. If you like to pick lines and go straight, and are a less active rider, i see the benefits for someone with that riding style. I really hope that in a few years time this is where the wheel debate comes to, Liteville has a great outlook on wheel diameter matched with riding style, bike size, and rider height.

But this idea that 27.5 is just simply better? I can honestly say i fail to see it
 
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buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,777
4,700
Champery, Switzerland
I am running it on both ends on a few bikes. I tried it just on the front last year and I kinda liked it but wouldn't plan to ride it like that all the time. I prefer the same wheel size on a bike. It usually takes me 3-6 days to get back up to full speed when I switch to 27.5 on a DH bike with the same geo as 26. A lot less time on a trail bike or freeride bike. After that I don't have any of the issues usually mentioned about bigger wheels. I don't want to like big wheels but 27.5 is not a huge difference and after you are used to it the disadvantages are almost non-existent.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Would bigger on just the front exaggerate docile wheel feel of the bigger wheel as the back can change direction quicker due to lower axle/wheel? Or am I not thinking right?
If you ran a wider rim on the front would you get a slightly lower profile tyre to help get wheel sizes closer?
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,508
822
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
I haven't noticed any odd handling traits from different size wheels. When I put a 650 on the front of my XC bike I limited fork travel by 5mm. I noticed a slightly slacker headangle, less hang-up allowing me to keep my weight more forward over bumps, and a slightly more stable/capable feel from the front end. I did this swap the night before heading to an enduro that I knew was too climby for my enduro bike but had sections that would work me on my XC bike. I felt faster and more capable than ever before riding this bike on rough downhills and took 2nd behind Nate Hills. Likely a big part of this was the slacker head angle but I think the larger wheel played a part. I used the same rim and tire as my previous 26" front wheel and being light trail parts, only added a little weight. Besides a slightly more capable front end I didn't notice any other handling changes.
 
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mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
The only thing I'm curious about is I know the Dorado itself is a little taller than my 888, so the combo of the fork and wheel could slacken it out too much or make it too tall.
The Dorado a-c is 590 - 605mm +/-. I've measured what a lot of people are running, and even some that have complained about the Dorado being tall are still running around 590mm a-c. It's pretty rare for people to actually run the minimum axle to crown height on DH forks. For example, of all the people that I know running a Fox 40, only one of them runs it at the min ~571mm. Most that I've measured run it around 585 - 590.

You can also reduce the travel on the Dorado for running larger wheels. Or, a super simple method is to connect a shock pump, compress the fork however much you want the travel reduced, set air pressure, disconnect pump while the fork is compressed. That will set the top out point wherever you want it.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,001
1,693
Northern California
The Dorado a-c is 590 - 605mm +/-. I've measured what a lot of people are running, and even some that have complained about the Dorado being tall are still running around 590mm a-c. It's pretty rare for people to actually run the minimum axle to crown height on DH forks. For example, of all the people that I know running a Fox 40, only one of them runs it at the min ~571mm. Most that I've measured run it around 585 - 590.
I run my 40 at the min to keep the bb low.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
Damn, I guess I wasn't supposed to race my Enduro 29er last weekend :(

45505_10151875998025490_2078448979_n (1).jpg
 
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kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
You can also reduce the travel on the Dorado for running larger wheels. Or, a super simple method is to connect a shock pump, compress the fork however much you want the travel reduced, set air pressure, disconnect pump while the fork is compressed. That will set the top out point wherever you want it.
How does this limit the travel? I'm wondering if I would even need to limit the travel on the fork. I don't think it would hit the crown or the down tube. Seems like I should have enough room to gain 3/4" on the radius of the wheel to not really interfere with anything, but I guess I'll just have to look at it when I get it set up. I should be ordering the fork this week. Looking to run maybe a Schwalbe tire in their super gravity casing...unless anyone has some specific suggestions.
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
How does this limit the travel? I'm wondering if I would even need to limit the travel on the fork. I don't think it would hit the crown or the down tube. Seems like I should have enough room to gain 3/4" on the radius of the wheel to not really interfere with anything, but I guess I'll just have to look at it when I get it set up. I should be ordering the fork this week. Looking to run maybe a Schwalbe tire in their super gravity casing...unless anyone has some specific suggestions.
Bottom out stays in the same place, so you'll need to check clearance. However, with the way the Dorado air spring works, it sets the top out point wherever the fork is in the travel while the shock pump is connected. Bottom out doesn't move, but top out does...the difference of the two makes the total travel available. That's why they recommend setting air pressure with the bike in a stand (front wheel off ground). But, you can move the top out point by compressing the fork with the pump attached, then release the pump. It's one of the quirks of the Dorado.

I'm probably also going to do this experiment as well, and for tires, I'm looking at the Magic Mary SG, Vertstar compound.
 
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buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,777
4,700
Champery, Switzerland
^I'm interested to hear you say you like having the same size wheels at each end. Why is that? A handling trait or to keep tire stock simple?
It wasn't a handling trait issue but more that I liked it enough on the front so why not run it in the rear too. I have a 425mm chain stay length with the 27.5 wheel so it is plenty quick through the tight stuff. If I had to have a longer CS length to fit the wheel then I would not be into it as much.

What tires are you running?
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
The Dorado auto-equalizes the positive and negative air pressure when the pump is attached, so if you equalize the pressure with the fork compressed, it'll just stay there.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,520
7,069
Colorado
With all of this talk about larger front wheel make me think of this.
 

wydopen

Turbo Monkey
Jan 16, 2005
1,229
60
805
With all of this talk about larger front wheel make me think of this.

im bummed..my dad just sold my old first gen Mnt cycle shockwave with a 1999 monster t, 24" doublewide rear and 3.0 gazzalodi jr front to some guy on CL for a few hundred bucks! Wish I at least got a pic of it before! Hopefully the headtube stayed attached for the new owner haha
 
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