[Verskis]

I have read from different sources that the Sram 9-speed cable pull is similar to Shimano 10-speed cable pull. Is this really true?
Anybody here using 9-speed Sram shifter with 10-speed Shimano derailleur on 9-speed cassette? If you are, please tell me your experiences.
I would be really keen to use my X7 shifter with a Zee derailleur on 9-speed cassette, but I'd like to hear more about this before buying the derailleur.

 

[kickstand]

my buddy is setting his bike up exactly like you are talking about.

He said there is a fair amount of information out there on the subject.

I will link him to this thread and see if he chimes in.

 

[Verskis]

I will link him to this thread and see if he chimes in.

Thanks!


There are some conflicting information floating around, seems like some people are using the derailleur in standard configuration, while some others are adding spacers to the cable clamping part to increase the lever length a bit.

 

[Sandwich]

problem solvers needs to release a roller wheel inline adapter to reduce lever throw to do just this with no questions. They already have all the gear, they just need to find the right ratios to do it.

I want a clutch derailleur so bad, but I just can't bring myself to make my chain even thinner.

 

[cjcrashesalot]

I mated a 9sp X.9 shifter to a Zee derailleur on my TR450 and it seems to line up well. The shifting has never been perfect on that bike though, I think the small cassette I run doesn't allow the derailleur upper pulley to be close enough to the cogs in many of the gears even with the B screw backed out.

That being said, the Zee shifts better than the X.7 I took off, and there are none of the symptoms of incompatible pull ratios (derailleur/cassette alignment getting worse as you shift through the gears, etc.)

 

[no skid marks]

I mated a 9sp X.9 shifter to a Zee derailleur on my TR450 and it seems to line up well. The shifting has never been perfect on that bike though, I think the small cassette I run doesn't allow the derailleur upper pulley to be close enough to the cogs in many of the gears even with the B screw backed out.

That being said, the Zee shifts better than the X.7 I took off, and there are none of the symptoms of incompatible pull ratios (derailleur/cassette alignment getting worse as you shift through the gears, etc.)

So with a wider ratio cassette you think it'd work fine?
Are there any ten speed cassettes that can pull apart that have a bigger then 34 tooth sprocket that you could build into a 9 speed cassette with 9 speed spacers.

 

[cjcrashesalot]

So with a wider ratio cassette you think it'd work fine?
Are there any ten speed cassettes that can pull apart that have a bigger then 34 tooth sprocket that you could build into a 9 speed cassette with 9 speed spacers.

It still works fine, there is just a bit of a delay in shifting that I attribute to the large gap between the upper pulley and the cassette that is unavoidable with my current setup. No doubt the shifting would be better with a wider range (11-21 currently), but I don't think that's an issue related to the 10/9sp conversion.

No idea on the cassette, but why would you want to turn a 10sp cassette into a 9sp?

 

[Verskis]

Are there any ten speed cassettes that can pull apart that have a bigger then 34 tooth sprocket that you could build into a 9 speed cassette with 9 speed spacers.

If you are after a 9-speed cassette with a 36t cog, Shimano makes one. It is a Deore level cassette, 12-36. You could replace the smallest 12t cog with a 11t if the high gear was not high enough.
That's the cassette I would run on my trail bike with the X7/Zee setup.

 

[Verskis]

I mated a 9sp X.9 shifter to a Zee derailleur on my TR450 and it seems to line up well. The shifting has never been perfect on that bike though, I think the small cassette I run doesn't allow the derailleur upper pulley to be close enough to the cogs in many of the gears even with the B screw backed out.

That being said, the Zee shifts better than the X.7 I took off, and there are none of the symptoms of incompatible pull ratios (derailleur/cassette alignment getting worse as you shift through the gears, etc.)

Nice to hear that. Are you using a stock derailleur, no spacers under the cable clamp etc. ?

 

[cjcrashesalot]

Nice to hear that. Are you using a stock derailleur, no spacers under the cable clamp etc. ?

Yep, totally stock derailleur. That being said, I set it up a while ago but haven't really gotten a chance to ride it. It may be improved with a spacer, but I don't have enough time on the setup to tell. My impressions are just from the bike stand so far.

 

[no skid marks]

No idea on the cassette, but why would you want to turn a 10sp cassette into a 9sp?

I wouldn't. I'd just want the three lowest gears to add to a 9 speed block(yes 9 speed spacers) so I had the gearing range of ten speed, with the clutch derailleur, and the reliability of 9 speed, and one less shift. I'd ratehr 8 speed, but the jumps between gears are even greater so shifting performance would diminish, and cable pull would be off.

If you are after a 9-speed cassette with a 36t cog, Shimano makes one. It is a Deore level cassette, 12-36. You could replace the smallest 12t cog with a 11t if the high gear was not high enough.
That's the cassette I would run on my trail bike with the X7/Zee setup.

That sounds easier. and would be low enough geared for me with a 34-6 up front. I'd only do it on a hardtail if at all.

 

[iRider]

Just FYI: the Deore cassette is super heavy.

FRM makes a 36t replacement cog to convert a 9sp cassette:

http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/frm-36t-conversion-kit-2x9-cassette-591441.html

BTW: I have read a couple of times that people use X.9-Zee clutch derailleur combos successfully.

 

[Lelandjt]

Can someone link to other discussions about this? I love my old version Sram 9spd shifters with the indicator wrapping around the bars. I'd like to match them with a clutch derailleur but won't tolerate any shifting weirdness if the cable pull isn't perfect so I'd like to read up on the spacers and stuff.

 

[300hp]

http://www.pinkbike.com/u/jwick/album/Shadow-Plus-Mod/?directtolastphoto

Be sure to give him props for figuring it out, saves us alot of hassle.

I'll be doing this in the near future.

 

[kickstand]

Thanks!


There are some conflicting information floating around, seems like some people are using the derailleur in standard configuration, while some others are adding spacers to the cable clamping part to increase the lever length a bit.

From what he told me he was planning to go with the spacer on the cable clamps due to better shifting and staying adjusted better.....

 

[Electric_City]

This is all new to me, but... What would happen if you put the cable on the incorrect side of the cable clamping bolt?
Years ago I had 8spd XTR stuff that was working fine. But after putting new cables and housing on, it wasn't shifting right. My buddy Bill took a look and realized that I put the cable on the wrong side of the bolt and it changed the leverage. Did anybody try this yet? EC

 

[Sandwich]

I'm tempted to mate an X4 or older X7 8 speed with that zee derailleur as an experiment. Should be slightly less sensitive to small adjustments, but can anyone say whether an 8 speed chain will fit in the cage?

 

[iRider]

I'm tempted to mate an X4 or older X7 8 speed with that zee derailleur as an experiment. Should be slightly less sensitive to small adjustments, but can anyone say whether an 8 speed chain will fit in the cage?

You might need wider pulleys.

 

[Lelandjt]

I'm gonna make a few of those square spacers cuz if I do this I want the cable pull to be correct. Are the shapes of the arms the same on Zee, Saint, XTR, XT, SLX (Shadow Plus) so this 6mm spacer does the same thing on any Shimano clutch derailleur?

 

[no skid marks]

I'm tempted to mate an X4 or older X7 8 speed with that zee derailleur as an experiment. Should be slightly less sensitive to small adjustments, but can anyone say whether an 8 speed chain will fit in the cage?

Now we're talking. You'd possibly need to use longer jockey wheel bolts to make more room between cages. Wider jockey wheels would probably make spacing for this easier.

 

[Lelandjt]

I'm tempted to mate an X4 or older X7 8 speed with that zee derailleur as an experiment. Can anyone say whether an 8 speed chain will fit in the cage?

I'd also like to do a clutch on my 8spd Sram shifter bike so let me know how this works. I'm not worried about cage width cuz I could put washers between the cage and pulley to make it wider. I just want to make sure the cable pull is right between an 8spd Sram ESP shifter and a Shadow Plus derailleur with a 6mm spacer.

 

[weedkilla]

Sram cable pull didn't change from 8 to 9 speed. Swapped between plenty of times.

 

[weedkilla]

Quick measure in the shed, mostly SRAM stuff as thats what I have -
External width 8 speed chain - 8.0mm
9 speed chain - 7.6mm
10 speed chain - 6.9mm
Internal width 9 speed derailleur - 10.0mm
10 speed derailleur - 9.9mm
Old shimano xtr 9 speed derailleur internal width - 9.0mm

I cant see that spacing the derailleur will be nescassary, I've run 8 speed chains in 9 speed derailleurs many times, both shimano and SRAM.

 

[no skid marks]

Quick measure in the shed, mostly SRAM stuff as thats what I have -
External width 8 speed chain - 8.0mm
9 speed chain - 7.6mm
10 speed chain - 6.9mm
Internal width 9 speed derailleur - 10.0mm
10 speed derailleur - 9.9mm
Old shimano xtr 9 speed derailleur internal width - 9.0mm

I cant see that spacing the derailleur will be nescassary, I've run 8 speed chains in 9 speed derailleurs many times, both shimano and SRAM.

Cool.
WooHoo, well done everyone. So I can keep rocking 8 speed. So pardon my ignorance, but what clutch Shimanno mechs have roadie style cassette throw, and what ones have a steeper throw for the mega cassette granny rings? Or are they all the same? Is there clutch roadie mechs?
Sorry for all the noob questions, most of my bikes are gearboxed, have been for a while now. Still have one with a 8 speed mech set up, and handy to know.

 

[weedkilla]

Shimano shadow plus (clutch) is from slx up in xc style mechs, cage lengths as per normal.
For the dh breeds, Zee mechs suit up to 28t cassettes (dh) or up to 36t cassettes (fr).
Saint has a chip you can remove for smaller cassettes, so one derailleur suits both.

My Zee dh arrives Tuesday......(or 2 weeks, whichever comes first!)

 

[thad]

I just added a 8 speed hole to a Zee Clutch. It works! Shifts good in the stand. 9 spd shimano, as well.

 

[Lelandjt]

You drilled a hole to move the cable anchor point in to match a Shimano 8spd shifter's cable pull? How did you decide where to put the hole, geometry and math and stuff? If I did the same thing it would save me from having to buy a Sram ESP 8spd shifter but I like the idea of more cable pull so I'm gonna do the spacer mod.

 

[thad]

Yes. I was all fired up to do the math, but when I got out the calipers, I couldn't measure accurately and repeatably enough to make it worth while. It's just making the lever arm shorter. So I wung it. The first hole didn't change it quite enough. If I were to do it again, I think I would drill same side as first hole, but 3mm lower. I didn't want to put two holes that close together... it needs to be a tight hole, not a slot.

I looked into the ESP 8 speed shifters, but it was either 12 year old grip shift or X3... had a had time taking XT 8spd pod off for that.

I wonder what alfine 8 shifter pull is...

 

[Lelandjt]

I looked into the ESP 8 speed shifters, but it was either 12 year old grip shift or X3.

The whole reason I'm doing this to all my bikes is I LOVE the Sram trigger shifters with a gear indicator that wraps around the bar and of course I want the clutch. On my 8spd bike I'm using the Sram Attack shifter in this style (Shimano cable pull). On Ebay I found a "Dualdrive" shifter that says it's 8spd, ESP 1:1, and is this style. QBP only has the 9spd model and ebay is the only online source for the 8spd so maybe it's discontinued. It'll cost me $30 versus using the shifter I already have but I like the idea of pulling twice as much cable as my Attack shifter.

 

[Sandwich]

Ha, I'm watching that auction too.

Sounds like you have two options, SRAM with a block or shimano with a hole....that's good for me!

 

[HardtailHack]

The whole reason I'm doing this to all my bikes is I LOVE the Sram trigger shifters with a gear indicator that wraps around the bar and of course I want the clutch. On my 8spd bike I'm using the Sram Attack shifter in this style (Shimano cable pull). On Ebay I found a "Dualdrive" shifter that says it's 8spd, ESP 1:1, and is this style. QBP only has the 9spd model and ebay is the only online source for the 8spd so maybe it's discontinued. It'll cost me $30 versus using the shifter I already have but I like the idea of pulling twice as much cable as my Attack shifter.

I have attack mechanicals inside an X9 body, couldn't deal with the rubbish plastic shift lever.

We need a CAD wizard to design some new indexed plate things(?) to change the shift points in the shifter, if we got enough laser or water cut they'd only be a few $each. I have wanted to do it for quite a while but I know the minimum cutting charge is $110 so I've never bothered.

 

[weedkilla]

Honestly - as much as I preffered 8 speed - the point came where I couldnt get quality chains, cassettes, shifters and I gave up.
While I can drag out 9 speed a bit longer I will, but when I cant buy a xtr/991 chain or a cassette that is mounted on an ally block, then I'm done here too

 

[Sandwich]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-DURA-ACE-8-SPEED-12X25-CASSETTE-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/271158847284?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f2253a734

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRAM-PG-850-12-26T-Road-Bike-8-Speed-Cassette-/270975603643?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f176793bb 220g vs 245 for saint 10 speed

http://www.amazon.com/P-Link-Bicycle-Chain-8-Speed-Silver/dp/B0011ZIN5M

http://www.ebay.com/itm/shimano-rear-derailleur-shifter-sram-8-speed-xtr-/190801188137?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c6ca31529

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-XT-Rapid-Fire-Shifters-M739-8-Speed-trigger-pods-/121059119071?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c2faf8fdf

Still there, just gotta look. My saint/xtr setup was one of the best I've had, including road setups, and an xtr/xt bled on my trail bike.

 

[Lelandjt]

I still have 2 8spd XT 11-28 alloy cassettes and use KMC's best 8 spd chain that's pretty high quality.

 

[Gary]

Sandwich, that SRAM cassette may well be lighter than Saint but SRAM cassette durability is atrocious in comparisson to Shimano! I've bent and completely split sram sprockets in both 8 speed and 9 guises and I know I'm not alone in this respect. Seeing as I run 8speed for durability and value I wouldn't even dream of buying a SRAM cassette.
There are still plenty of decent cheap shimano 8 speed cassettes around if you look around.

 

[Verskis]

This is all new to me, but... What would happen if you put the cable on the incorrect side of the cable clamping bolt?
Years ago I had 8spd XTR stuff that was working fine. But after putting new cables and housing on, it wasn't shifting right. My buddy Bill took a look and realized that I put the cable on the wrong side of the bolt and it changed the leverage. Did anybody try this yet? EC

This might work, seeing as the spacers on the cable clamp increase the lever length, as would clamping the cable on the wrong side of the bolt. Not sure if the leverage would be correct, though.

 

[Tomasis]

possible to run 8, 7 speed cassettes and chains with 9 speed derailleur & shifter? also with that combo of Zee and Sram shifter? just to be sure.

that is interesting about sram cassette quality, I guess i will avoid that in future. Im looking for XTR cassette

 

[Sandwich]

Sandwich, that SRAM cassette may well be lighter than Saint but SRAM cassette durability is atrocious in comparisson to Shimano! I've bent and completely split sram sprockets in both 8 speed and 9 guises and I know I'm not alone in this respect. Seeing as I run 8speed for durability and value I wouldn't even dream of buying a SRAM cassette.
There are still plenty of decent cheap shimano 8 speed cassettes around if you look around.

Interesting! I've only had good luck with SRAM stuff, but I typically stick to higher end alloy carrier cassettes, which only come in at 980 or above. I have a 990 red flavor cassette on my trail bike and it's pretty good, if a little notchy under power. SRAM bits before 9 speed were all designed by SACHS, and if there's anybody I trust with over-engineering simple components, it's the japanese and the germans.

Still, everybody has their favorite and my point was mostly that you can get an 8 speed cassette for $40 that rivals 10 speed stuff in weight. I have an XTR cluster on my DH bike that has lasted phenomenally well, but it's 11-30 so spread a little too wide for DHing. It's too nice to swap for a low end cassette, but whatevs. I've honestly never heard that about SRAM cassettes though.

I had an Action Tec 12-25 ti cassette on order, but I had the wrong address on Ebay, and it got lost in the mail.

 

[Sandwich]

possible to run 8, 7 speed cassettes and chains with 9 speed derailleur & shifter? also with that combo of Zee and Sram shifter? just to be sure.

that is interesting about sram cassette quality, I guess i will avoid that in future. Im looking for XTR cassette

Not typically. You can run an 8 speed cassette and chain with a shimano 9 speed derailleur, but you need an 8 speed shifter to get the spacing right. Also, there's no point in running 7 speed, as the spacing is the same as eight.

 

[weedkilla]

And x9 shifter is married to zee derailleur, working fine with no spacer. I'll give it a good run before I try a spacer block at the cable mount, but at this stage it passes the work stand and backyard pedal with the cable mounted in the standard position.