I commend you for saying that. The current Israeli regime seems to use similar tactics as those that were used against their grandparents, and viciously attacks anyone who suggests as much.Originally posted by -BB-
Ok...I've been trying to stay outa things like this (political debates) but c'mon!!! WTF are these people thinking?
It's like israel is gonna become the 4th reicht (sp?) w/ these kinda tactics.
Well lets not talk about the ugly details no one wants to hear. Like the fact that the bombers often use things like bearings and rat poison (as an anti-coagulant) to maim their victims. Or that they purposely target women and children, the more innocent the better. Or that there are wards full of bomb victims that will never be able to rejoin society.Originally posted by Toshi
I commend you for saying that. The current Israeli regime seems to use similar tactics as those that were used against their grandparents, and viciously attacks anyone who suggests as much.
Originally posted by RideMonkey
Well lets not talk about the ugly details no one wants to hear. Like the fact that the bombers often use things like bearings and rat poison (as an anti-coagulant) to maim their victims. Or that they purposely target women and children, the more innocent the better. Or that there are wards full of bomb victims that will never be able to rejoin society.
The Arab bombers are the most cowardly bunch I've ever heard of. What is Israel supposed to do in this situation? I think separation is a logical strategy given the circumstances.
Like I have said before, terrorism can never be condoned. As long as the bombings continue the Palestinian cause will have no validity.
I would say to "turn the other cheek" but that is the New Testament.Originally posted by RideMonkey
The Arab bombers are the most cowardly bunch I've ever heard of. What is Israel supposed to do in this situation? I think separation is a logical strategy given the circumstances.
That's a valid argument for the wall/barrier between Israel and the Palestinian territories (though I oppose that as well), but this is segregation of Israeli CITIZENS. It doesn't say in the article if the family in question was even Palestinian.Originally posted by RideMonkey
Well lets not talk about the ugly details no one wants to hear. Like the fact that the bombers often use things like bearings and rat poison (as an anti-coagulant) to maim their victims. Or that they purposely target women and children, the more innocent the better. Or that there are wards full of bomb victims that will never be able to rejoin society.
The Arab bombers are the most cowardly bunch I've ever heard of. What is Israel supposed to do in this situation? I think separation is a logical strategy given the circumstances.
Like I have said before, terrorism can never be condoned. As long as the bombings continue the Palestinian cause will have no validity.
Originally posted by Toshi
Actually, the fact that the Arab suicide bombers are moved to act as they do shows that they have serious grievances.
VERY well said.Originally posted by Pistol
People around the world everywhere have serious grievances, while few resort to cold blooded murder to try and resolve them. The only thing these acts show is the perpretrator's complete disregard for human life.
Sorry, but that is absolute poop.Originally posted by Toshi
I would say to "turn the other cheek" but that is the New Testament.
Actually, the fact that the Arab suicide bombers are moved to act as they do shows that they have serious grievances. Making life worse by being more intolerant and racist (such as through the separation policy in the article) won't help anything.
Sure, it won't solve their problems. But no one throws away their life lightly, even if you hold them to be "animals."Originally posted by Damn True
Sorry, but that is absolute poop.
Serious greivances are not settled by blowing up a busload of kids. Grievances my butt, those people are animals.
.......Or that they are completely brainwashed How could you say something that backwards Toshi? I dont care how serious their grievances are, there is no excuse for that kind of barbaric behavior.....Originally posted by Toshi
I would say to "turn the other cheek" but that is the New Testament.
Actually, the fact that the Arab suicide bombers are moved to act as they do shows that they have serious grievances. Making life worse by being more intolerant and racist (such as through the separation policy in the article) won't help anything.
do you feel the same way about the terrorists that flew those airplanes into the WTC and the Pentagon???????????Originally posted by Toshi
Sure, it won't solve their problems. But no one throws away their life lightly, even if you hold them to be "animals."
Yes. They were people, too. Not being in their position, I can't imagine what motivated them to commit such horrific acts as they did. But they aren't animals, and aren't zombies that were mindlessly brainwashed. It's high conceit if we think that Americans are the only ones who can think and make rational decisions (I'm not saying that you said this, just extending on some arguments that have been implied here).Originally posted by JOJO
do you feel the same way about the terrorists that flew those airplanes into the WTC and the Pentagon?
This IS true (us not being the only ones who make rational decisions).Originally posted by Toshi
Yes. They were people, too. Not being in their position, I can't imagine what motivated them to commit such horrific acts as they did. But they aren't animals, and aren't zombies that were mindlessly brainwashed. It's high conceit if we think that Americans are the only ones who can think and make rational decisions (I'm not saying that you said this, just extending on some arguments that have been implied here).
Condeming the actions of the jews does not neccesaritly mean you condone the actions of the Palistinians.Originally posted by RideMonkey
Well lets not talk about the ugly details no one wants to hear. Like the fact that the bombers often use things like bearings and rat poison (as an anti-coagulant) to maim their victims. Or that they purposely target women and children, the more innocent the better. Or that there are wards full of bomb victims that will never be able to rejoin society.
The Arab bombers are the most cowardly bunch I've ever heard of. What is Israel supposed to do in this situation? I think separation is a logical strategy given the circumstances.
Like I have said before, terrorism can never be condoned. As long as the bombings continue the Palestinian cause will have no validity.
its obvious that there was nothing rational about the decision to bomb the wtc. it was a decision made in a religious fervor. people are feeding off of these poor, uneducated people's despair. they are saying their is a better life for you if you kill americans. the suicide bombers are being exploited by the people that they trust and follow. i personally dont believe for one second that osama and all the head guys over there think that you can get into "heaven" by killing. i think they are just preying off of other people who do believe that.Originally posted by fourgivn1
This IS true (us not being the only ones who make rational decisions).
However, I think that the vast majority of the free world would agree that the decisions to bomb the WTC Towers and the Pentagon weren't exactly rational decisions - or weren't backed by rational thought processes.
I'm not saying that these guys weren't rational. (Well, actually, yeah I am. At least to me, they weren't rational. But that's the 'beauty' of differing points of view, haha.) But I do know that if I myself said "I think I'm gonna bomb something" with 100% seriousness, and then asked "By the way, do you think that's a rational decision?" I'm fairly sure they'd say NO. *L*
I dunno....this is not to say that I'm saying you are wrong. But I guess you have to look at it like this. Some people claim a set of beliefs (I claim Christianity, for instance), and while some people sort of do it just to 'do it' but don't know really WHY they do it....or worse yet, they use it only as a means to an end, others truly aspire to do their best to live their lives according to the tenets/commands/wishes of the focus of that religion. I do my best to live my life according to the Bible, which I believe is the Word of God.Originally posted by laura
its obvious that there was nothing rational about the decision to bomb the wtc. it was a decision made in a religious fervor. people are feeding off of these poor, uneducated people's despair. they are saying their is a better life for you if you kill americans. the suicide bombers are being exploited by the people that they trust and follow. i personally dont believe for one second that osama and all the head guys over there think that you can get into "heaven" by killing. i think they are just preying off of other people who do believe that.
just my 2 cents
"He was well respected in the community," he says, "because he could recite the Koran by heart."
it was unlikely he had been forced to join Hamas, that he chose his own route
In a videotape released after his death, the bespectacled student dressed in camouflage fatigues said his action was aimed at the security fence that is Israel's latest measure to stop the suicide bombers.
His mission, he said, was to "set the separation fence aflame."
"I hope that his death will contribute to finishing the occupation. As long as it continues and the arrests continue, so will the intifada."
This part I've got to disagree with. The above is something the Western media has really fed us. A good friend of mine from school (who's Lebanese) filmed a documentary in Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and the occupied territories, and he came back with a vastly different story. The parents of these suicide bombers ABSOLUTELY mourn the deaths of their children as would ANY parent that has lost a child. The media feeds us soundbites and images of hardened resolute faces because much of the media would like us to see the Palestinians as "different" than us, emotionless, or even less than human.Originally posted by fourgivn1
This is why you will rarely see the mother of a bomber (or 'martyr') being SAD that her son committed suicide, because they believe their son's place in paradise is assured for eternity.
Well, this is true that it seemed rational...these guys don't always do cartwheels and scream and laugh maniacally and all of that. I grant you that.Originally posted by Toshi
This suicide bomber seemed rational. His target was the separating wall between the Palestian areas and the Israeli areas. Flies in the face of some "conventional wisdom" floating around here...
No I am not arguing that reason is relative. Personally I do not believe that it is relative, and I'm sure we could get into a huge debate/discussion about this. But that is not my intent. If you will look at my words above I did not say ANYTHING about the REASONING depending upon the point of view. What I said was, and I quote, emphasis mine,Originally posted by Toshi
So are you arguing that reason is relative, like so much else? If so, what does it hinge upon? If knowledge (ie, a man of the 1400s might not be irrational for believing that the world was flat because it was not common knowledge that it isn't) is part of the foundation of reason, then do you have the temerity to claim that those who find the suicide bombers' actions irrational to have a better grip on the truth than everyone else?
Interesting. What if you don't have a car to blow up? Also, please expand on this "monster" -- it's the oil producing part of the world, sure, but that's vague, and I don't understand your point.Originally posted by Sideways
If any of y'all actually gave half a sh'it about this "war on terrorism":
You'd blow up your cars and ride your bikes instead.
Stop feeding the monster.
I have a truck, therefore I am exempt from explosions.Originally posted by Toshi
Interesting. What if you don't have a car to blow up? Also, please expand on this "monster" -- it's the oil producing part of the world, sure, but that's vague, and I don't understand your point.
No car? Good for you!Originally posted by Toshi
Interesting. What if you don't have a car to blow up? Also, please expand on this "monster" -- it's the oil producing part of the world, sure, but that's vague, and I don't understand your point.
Did you know that I don't drive a vehicle or buy gas to support terrorists?Originally posted by Sideways
No car? Good for you!
Anyways,
Have you ever noticed that our president and vice-president are both wealthy oil barons?
Did you know that Hamid Karzai, the new US backed Afghan president recently struck an agreement with Pakistan for a trans-Afghanistan pipeline from the Caspian Oil reserves?
Did you know that American petroleum giant Unocal is in the running for the contract?
Did you know that Unocal was unable to negotiate a similar deal with the Taliban?
Maybe it's a little extreme on the whole conspiracy theory side, but he's got a point.Originally posted by Damn True
Someone listens to too much late night am radio.
Oh yeah, I do agree. For the record, I didn't disagree.....like you said, a little extreme on the conspiracy side. When I buy gas for my Dakota, I'm not thinking "Go Taliban!"Originally posted by ohio
Maybe it's a little extreme on the whole conspiracy theory side, but he's got a point.
Originally posted by ohio
Maybe it's a little extreme on the whole conspiracy theory side, but he's got a point.
There are a lot of reasons the Middle East is messed up right now, and a good number of Arabs hold animosity towards the US, and most of that has a lot to do with oil, and very little to do with religion or "being jealous of our prosperity."
If we were less oil dependent, there would be fewer problems. True, the middle east would not be as wealthy as it is, but we wouldn't feel the need to f--- them up and shake the down every time our precious supply was threatened...
As for South America, oil along with the war on drugs, has only recently caused the problems down there... so the history of our f---ing around with them isn't quite as storied as the middle east. Give it fifty years to stew, THEN we'll be screwed.
Only those who are rich from oil would be mad. The vast majority would be pleased as punch.Originally posted by Damn True
You think they are pi$$ed now, let's see what happens if we all start driving electric cars and their #1 source of revenue dissapears.