[Zark]

Come tax return time I want to retire my old DS1 from trail duties. I was thinking about selling the whole bike and getting a complete Enduro, but I don't think I'll get much for the Azonic (despite some good parts). So when I contemplated an Enduro frameset I thought about a coule design flaws (no full length seat tube and a sub-par shock) and started thinking about maybe a Saber instead.

Anyone know the frame weight for a Saber? Is it light enough for trail use?
Any opinions on what to do would be appreciated.

My parts are good for the most part, but the cranks are a little torn up and I wanna bail my z1 drop off.

Why this bike? I'm tight on cash so no Turners or Intenses and don't like single pivots (brake jack, chain grow)

 

[WestCoastHucker]

maybe this will help a little?

http://www.dirtworld.com/story.asp?id=490&article_type_id=3&articletypecode=bikes

 

[Bulldog]

I think the Saber would make a great trail bike. About 8 pounds with the big Romic coil, so you could go under 7 with an air shock if you like that. That's a good solid trailbike weight. Full seat tube, choice of 5" or 6" travel, gussets, etc. Good warranty program if needed. Sounds like they've got the first-year bug of broken chainstays fixed. Sounds like a pretty sound choice to me. Plus this year it's available in black!

 

[Zark]

8 pounds! I was hoping for lighter, but an Enduro with a Romic would weigh that much too.

MMMmmmm Black:devil:

Anyone know the MSRP?

 

[ChainWhip]

Originally posted by Zark
8 pounds! I was hoping for lighter, but an Enduro with a Romic would weigh that much too.

MMMmmmm Black:devil:

Anyone know the MSRP?

http://secure.oneal.com/cart/product-a.asp?ProductCode=1004b

$1295

 

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by Zark
8 pounds! I was hoping for lighter, but an Enduro with a Romic would weigh that much too.

It is all in the shock. A Fox float weigh ~1/2 pound, my similar sized Romic weighs over 1.75 pounds. Always take the shock into account when comparing weights.

 

[oly]

6.5 no shock according to a sales guy at azonic.

 

[oly]

Originally posted by Bulldog
It is all in the shock. A Fox float weigh ~1/2 pound, my similar sized Romic weighs over 1.75 pounds. Always take the shock into account when comparing weights.

And in that also take into account spring size on a coil shock. I weighed the diff between a 600 and 900lb spring. I was blown away by the difference. I dont remember what it was now but it was significant. I also remember the fox ava was lighter than the coil spring itself......

 

[Zark]

What would you choose: coil or air? The newer generation air shocks are supposed to be tons better than before but I'm leaning towards coil for reliabillity and feel.

Even at 8 pounds I should be able to build it around 33-34 pounds with my parts, not too bad I guess.

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by Zark
What would you choose: coil or air? The newer generation air shocks are supposed to be tons better than before but I'm leaning towards coil for reliabillity and feel.

Even at 8 pounds I should be able to build it around 33-34 pounds with my parts, not too bad I guess.

If you go with a fox air, aren't you going back to your complaint with the enduros (unless you're talking about that brain thing on the s works)? I've been riding an 03 enduro and am curious about what you don't like about the fox's. The 04's come with propedal shocks and I was planning on ordering one for mine.

Coils still feel better to me too but climbing for 2 hours validates anything lighter weight. Maybe you could talk to romic about building you one of the exc shocks their stocking on some of the ellsworth bikes. Jimmy the romic man told me they are up to 3/4 of a lb lighter than one of the comparable standard romics. Swinger air maybe? It's worth doing because the saber is a better descender than the enduros for sure and would be worth lightening.

 

[MikeD]

My buddy bought one and it's really really light compared to my Turner...geometry probably isn't too great for climbing, but if you just want to drop into the granny and spin, you can get up most any non-technical climb. It's certainly no DH sled, either. And if I know you, you're not looking to conquer any XC-geek climbing...I think the bike would be pretty damned good for ya. A swinger air would be pretty cool, too...if it doesn't have the bottoming problems that Rabie's did. (even after factory servicing...)

But why retire the HT??

 

[Zark]

Originally posted by MikeD
But why retire the HT??

My ass hurts
The DS1 isn't getting sold, just resting until more parts come along.

Dude I've learned a lot riding the HT for the last year, mainly that I'm too old to ride HT in this town. Seriously I think they are really fun for certain trails and make you a better bike handler, I just want more comfort.

The air shock will have to wait, it comes with a Romic and thats what I'll ride.

Now fork-wise I need to retire the Z1 drop off. I was thinking a Shiver SC or Z1 QR 20mm. Anyone know if the Z1 SL is offered with 20mm lowers?

The fork needs to be 20mm cause I already have a wheel and want the wheels interchangable with the DH bike.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

I bought a Saber late this summer and have been super impressed with it thus far. I've got some light parts and some not so light parts on my bike, and it weighs about 35 pounds. The weight hasn't been a big deal to me, but I'm about 185 lbs. Some people mentioned the chainstay problem and that it has been fixed. Also, if you read enough reviews you're going to come across the leaky Romic problem, which has also been fixed. If you get a frame with a leaky Romic, send it back, there's a part that is machined out of tollerance, they'll fix it for free within a day or two.

Anyway, you can go to http://www.go-ride.com/artmag_saber.html and get a better lowdown on what my impressions with the bike have been. There's a guy over on MTBR with the sn JM_ who also has a Saber, his is built up closer to 40 pounds though.

James
Go-Ride.com
801-474-0081

 

[James | Go-Ride]

A couple of other quick things I forgot...

The Z150 SL doesn't have steel legs or steerer, so if you're just looking to do XC and trail riding, that should be a consideration. It has the 20mm axle and will match the travel of the bike very nicely.

As for the climbing performance of the bike, so far my Saber has been a much better climber than my previous bike, a DMR steel hardtail. The geometry on the DMR should have been better, and it was on long smooth climbs, but when things got really technical and steep, having a bunch of travel in an FSR design makes for lots and lots of traction without pedal feedback.

James
GR.c

 

[Spunger]

I think go-ride has them for $1049 to, and no CA sales tax if that helps you with your thinking

No more HT huh......good choice. I got new wheels comming for the Cortina, should be fairly light after that, then again I only have 4.5" in the rear via Fox Float RL. It should make for a light, nice trailbike though.

You know I was gonna get an azonic or intense. Price wise Azonic probably hits the nail on the head, plus their build quality etc... After riding a bike with a coil and not much travel I think air is all I need, plus I get the lockout which is nice.

Your price range is at a weird point. Lots of $999-1399 frames around. I doubt you'll go wrong with any though. XT parts, decent wheels, good light stem/handlebar/seatpost & seat combo shouldn't be that much weight. My 20mm Marzocchi hub, XT rear laced to D521's was $239. Not bad for a good strong, not too heavy wheelset.

Shiver SC's aren't too much on the used market either, hell even new some aren't that bad. I think universal cycles gives a free headset with them. Just more options.

So no Bullit for you Zark? :

 

[Zark]

Originally posted by Spunger
Shiver SC's aren't too much on the used market either, hell even new some aren't that bad. I think universal cycles gives a free headset with them. Just more options.

So no Bullit for you Zark? :

Thats kinda what I was thinking, pick up a used SC and rip it up
Yeah, no Bullit 4bar militia an all

Z150 is too pricy/heavy for what I had in mind.
FSR pivot climbing is awesome James, its been so long I almost forgot:love:

 

[Jm_]

If you get a saber, and you put XT components on it and avid disc brakes, I'll punch you in the nose!






Cause it will be exactly the same as mine with the Shiver SC. It was the best solution for me, a Z1SL would have required me to rebuild my wheel with a new hub, plus SuperHoe wanted sales tax on the Z1SL. I wasn't going to put a 5.7lb Z1FR on my TRAIL bike, and the Shiver SC was kind of the best middle ground, 5lb, ECC, $370 bucks, no sales tax with Cambriabike. If you tighten the axle correctly the flex issue isn't a big one, and the fork will really take a LOT of punishment. I had never really done any drops on a single crown before(I havent owned one since 1999), but after having this I have a lot more faith in doing jumps and drops on a single crown, it takes a beating.

If I had to buy the saber again, I would in a flash. I just took it out last night for 3hrs and had a lot of fun. I would however immediatly sell/switch the romic out for something else. 3x blowing and too harsh for me. My Helix Expert while not "plush" due to being over sprung, would take all the punishment I could put the bike through, it was the shock I ran whenever the romic was blown(which was a large percentage of the time). Now I got a fox on there and I like it better.

It's a damn versatile bike, not as heavily built as some freeriders, but for what I use it for, trail riding and light freeriding, it's pretty perfect.

 

[Zark]

Originally posted by Jm_
If you get a saber, and you put XT components on it and avid disc brakes, I'll punch you in the nose!

Dude, yer killing me today!
I've got Hayes brakes so I guess my nose is safe

I've ridden around on Shiver SC's before and like em, not that flexy IMO.

Your Romic experience sounds bad but I know tons of folks that have had great experiences on them so I'll gamble.

 

[Jm_]

And about weight, mine weighs about 33-34lbs or so with 650 gram tires, XT stuff, avids(heavy), the Shiver SC, 520g freeride rims, XT rear hub, chromo handlebar, XC clipless pedals, Ti railed saddle.

If I get a carbon handlebar and seat post, switch the rims for some 450 gram 3.1s or F519s, CK/Hugi hubs, then it would be around 30lbs or so. Hopefully I can get new wheels sometime because I'd like to take it down a few lbs now that I have a DH bike for real abuse.

 

[Jm_]

Originally posted by Zark


Your Romic experience sounds bad but I know tons of folks that have had great experiences on them so I'll gamble.

What seems to be a constant is how great Romic's customer service is, if that is any comfort. A lot of people in the mtbr review love their shock, but it's amazing how many have blown them as well. At least you won't be left in the cold if anything DOES happen, romic WILL take care of you.

 

[JerseyDave]

I like the Idea of sussy bikes but I want them to be as durable as a HT. I know that they are a decade or so from actually making a sussy bike that strong, but every season we (the bike shop owner next store and I) look at what's new. When we saw the sabre we thought, hey, this bike looks sweet, the only question is durability. So as people came in looking for sussy trail bikes, they ended up selling 3...all at the beginning of last season. Within WEEKS they started coming back all broken in the exact same place...on the chainstay at it's thinest point. All three ended up coming back multiple times...replacement swing arms contiuned to break and Azonic coninued to say...noone else has broken any..what are you guys doing wrong? Which was BS because suddenly, after my friends Jared's swing arm went away for the third time, a "redesigned" swing arm appeared. Now, if we were the only people breaking them, why would they redesign the swing arm. Maybe they changed for 04, but I wouldn't buy an 03 to ride to the store on.


Oh yea, also azonic speced the wrong shock bolt so everytime you unweight the bike there is an annoying cluclunk as the shock moves slightly. Owners of 03 should hold the back tire down and lift the seat and notice the play. Azonic could NEVER seem to get the right bolts sent to the shop. Take this info for what it is, a completely objective realying of a shops experience with azonic and 3 sabre frames. Did I mention they all broke repeatedly.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Sounds to me like you had a unique experience with Azonic, normally their customer service is top-notch. They told us right away when frames started cracking that they were going to replace that piece.

As for the shock bolt, Azonic emailed us and told us about that as well, and two or three days later a bunch of washer kits showed up for the shock bolts. The bolt was the correct spec, they just forgot to include the right size washers.

James
Go-Ride.com
801-474-0081

 

[BlackhillsBob]

James, have you had a chance to ride Scott's El Chamuco, I know that its a SP, just looking at a 6" bike compared to another 6" bike on the same trails, built simular.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

I haven't had a chance to ride Scott's Chamuco out on the dirt yet. I've done some parking lot testing, and I did sprint it to 7-11 the other day. The bike feels good, I think it could benefit from a bottom control shock for big hits or whatever, but as a trail bike the Romic feels awesome on there. It would be a tough decision between those two bikes. They're about the same price, the Chamuco weighs a little less, but the FSR-designed Saber is going to have better pedaling characteristics in certain gear combinations. Pretty much I would decide whether you want a silver frame or a red one, because both bikes are sick. The biggest advantage the Chamuco has is that it's a Ventana, built in the USA. Not to say the Saber has poor build quality, because it doesn't, but I know some people refuse to realize that the people welding in Taiwan or whatever can do some decent work as well.

James
Go-Ride.com
801-474-0081

 

[Tully]

Go for an Azonic Propulsion. They're supposed to be strong enough for dirt jumping/mountaincross, and I have heard that they only weigh about 6.5 lbs. They have 4" of travel, but I think that's enough if you're at least fairly smooth. I've found them at go-ride.com for $1000 with a Romic coil, and at beyondbikes.com for $900 with a Fox AVA air shock.

 

[erikkellison]

Hokay.
I almost got a Saber for light freeride, I think it would be an awesome bike - SO VERSATILE!!!
If you want to lighten it up someday, you could get a 5th element air, those things are awesome for trail riding and weigh less than anything else.
As far as for, if I were you, I'd run a Z1 Freeride. If they still make a Z1 SL, that would be even better for you, or maybe a Z150SL, if that's not too heavy. I think they are all available with a QR20 axle. Just make sure the fork has external rebound and preload adjustments.

 

[Curb Hucker]

Originally posted by James | Go-Ride
There's a guy over on MTBR with the sn JM_ who also has a Saber, his is built up closer to 40 pounds though.

James
Go-Ride.com
801-474-0081

James theres also a guy on here with the name Jm_ and he too has a saber, i wonder if its the same guy, you need to spend less time working and more time on RM.

Don

 

[Jm_]

mine was never around 40lbs though! on either website

 

[Brian Peterson]

Noah,
I have a Shiver SC that I might be willing to part with....

Also, Z150SL is quite a bit lighter than it's FR cousin...

Brian

 

[JRB]

Any thoughts on this? Did you have one, Zark? I am thinking about one, but can't determine if I want the 17 or 19. I am just at 6 ft, but like some stand over. I also kind of like a longer TT. It will be a trail bike with a Z150 SL on it. I have thought about a bullit, but my NRS was my favorite XC bike, and this looks awfully similar.

 

[Zark]

Any thoughts on this? Did you have one, Zark? I am thinking about one, but can't determine if I want the 17 or 19. I am just at 6 ft, but like some stand over. I also kind of like a longer TT. It will be a trail bike with a Z150 SL on it. I have thought about a bullit, but my NRS was my favorite XC bike, and this looks awfully similar.

Wow, long lost thread

I didn't end up with one. I ended up with an SGS, that I'm selling. The Saber would have been a much better choice in hindsight (more trail bike than freerider). I played around on a 17" which fit me nicely (5'10") The 19 sounds more your size.

The visual similarity with the NRS is about it. The Saber is a true FSR suspension, while the NRS is virtually locked out and brake jacks big time. The Saber will be more active.

The bullit will be burlier, more hucker. The Saber will have more refined suspension and a little more versatile.

Hope this helps.

 

[dante]

Any thoughts on this? Did you have one, Zark? I am thinking about one, but can't determine if I want the 17 or 19. I am just at 6 ft, but like some stand over. I also kind of like a longer TT. It will be a trail bike with a Z150 SL on it. I have thought about a bullit, but my NRS was my favorite XC bike, and this looks awfully similar.

:nuts:

(that's for bringing back a year old post... :angry: )

 

[JRB]

:nuts:

(that's for bringing back a year old post... :angry: )

Yeah - everyone should have a kick in the nuts for asking a legitmate question.

edit - thanks, Zark.

 

[dante]

sorry, to bring up a year old post to ask someone (who didn't even get the item in question) what size he should get should expect some flak. if not, i appologize.

 

[JRB]

So what size should I get???

 

[Z-bomb]

I just read this (somewhat old) thread and decided I'd better chime in.

I bought an '03 17" (I'm 5'10") Azonic Saber with the Romic on it and have had *zero* problems with it. I put a Z1 FR on it with 8" Hayes hydraulic brakes. Built up somewhat light wheels, XT components, and Crank Bros Mallet-C pedals and the thing weighs just a tad over 33 lbs.

I ride it everywhere now. Awesome all-around trail bike, provided you are man enough to muscle the extra pounds up the hill.

Loco, if you are 6' tall you should definitely go with the 19" frame. It will have more than enough stand-over room because the top tube slopes steeply downward from front to back.

Very fun bike. It pedals quite well and I don't notice brake jacking at all.
-Z

 

[blue]

I've really been craving a Saber lately...I rode one and fell in love. Tempted to pawn off my XC bike for one.