http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30011
When do you think this started, after the Patriot Act? I've read journalists in Sweden say they can't write the truth because they fear they will loose their jobs.
Belafonte: "No free press in the US"
- Thread starter rockwool
- Start date
When do you think this started, after the Patriot Act? I've read journalists in Sweden say they can't write the truth because they fear they will loose their jobs.
my ass!, belafonte has got no on clue what "no free press" means...
btw, its rich he says that while visiting cuba....
btw, its rich he says that while visiting cuba....
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48324
There's a linked FOX news clip in that article.
Cuba has been under constant threat of a take over from the US for 45 years. If you study how the media have been used in countries where there been US led/backed coups, then you will see the big role they've played in fooling the masses. I can fully understand if a country that is under that kind of threat from its neighbour, who also happens to be the most powerful nation in teh world, takes defensive precautions like that.
yeah right.
dont tell me you also believe/think its not a "dictatorship" but a "single party state"??
I don't belive nothing. I have the constitution of the republic of Cuba in my home. It is true that you can't vote on different parties there. They only vote on individuals. There are 4 different elections; Neighbourhood, municipality, national assembly, president.
In their electoral prosses nobody that is running for a post is allowed to "promise", or in anyway speak of, what they will achieve when elected, cus that's only a lot of BS (and don't we know it from our own politicians...). They are voted in on merits. Ain't that refreshingly manure free?!!
http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Cuba/cuba.html
Cuba is most certainly a dictatorship. You are misinformed.
No Sir. It is you Sir that is disinformed.
Strangely, as the big critic of the US you are, you buy what they say about Cuba.. Read the part in their constitution that's about their elections. There you'll see, black on white, nobodys propaganda, 4 elections.
Oh, Castro is not a dictator. C'mon...he seized power, held it by force and intimidation, and has used his position to enrich his freinds and family. Nope, definitely not a dictator...
(Come to think, he sounds a bit like GW...)
(Come to think, he sounds a bit like GW...)
So yeah, who opposed Castro in the last election? Hmm...
And yeah, Constitutions are always followed to the letter...
thats a bit of circular reasoning.
we are questioning the status of castro's rule of cuba, but you use castro's ruled contitution to counter.
so, in your view, castro's cuba isnt a dictatorship because castro's own constitution says it isnt. and castro's constitution is reality adjusted, because castro's cuba says so.
something like that is what we, southamericans, call "happiness by decree". just because they enact a law saying "everybody will be happy" doesnt really mean everybody achieves happiness.
So the Cubans who come here really don't know what the fvck they are doing?
they don't, they just take a pleasure cruise for a change of scenery. It's not like they put their lives at risk or anything.
If you can't leave a country, you're living in a dictatorship.
Now, that's not to say that the US isn't screwing over Cuba. Just because we are, it doesn't make Castro a good guy. Having said that, when he dies, there will be editorials written by idiots on the left saying that "He provided the Cubans with healthcare...etc." Just like asshats on the right went nuts when Pinochet died, saying that "Sure, he killed and tortured thousands of Chileans, but at least they didn't have to live under Allende's economic policies!"
Being the head of the one legal political party in the country makes you a dictator, not a President.
Now, that's not to say that the US isn't screwing over Cuba. Just because we are, it doesn't make Castro a good guy. Having said that, when he dies, there will be editorials written by idiots on the left saying that "He provided the Cubans with healthcare...etc." Just like asshats on the right went nuts when Pinochet died, saying that "Sure, he killed and tortured thousands of Chileans, but at least they didn't have to live under Allende's economic policies!"
Being the head of the one legal political party in the country makes you a dictator, not a President.
They HAD a revolution, so the people seized power by force, but they have elections today. You can't critisize a people for overthrowing the dictator Batista and the economic elite that supported him. You Americans had a revolution too. You lived under opression and you dealt with it.
The power was in the begining held by force, but is not held by intimidation. Enriching his friends and him self? Twice has Forbes magazine claimed that Castor has a substantial weath. First time was a few years ago and they claimed $1.4billion. Second time was last year with a claimed $800million. Castro answered something on the way of "show me the money and I will give it to you".
If Forbes had seen any bank accounts then they would have publiched the PROOF for sure.
Don't know, don't care because a vast majority of Cubans like their president. Do a search or email www.Granma.cu and ask them, they might help you.
I've seen great examples of your constitution being overrun and what not in those past few years, so no, they aren't but when it comes to holding elections on Cuba, they are. The constitution is followed on that point.
Isn't a constitution a good way of seeing the facts of how a country in governed?
Castro's status: President, elected by the National Assembly.
Cuba's constitution is not more Castro's than the constitution of the USA is Bush's.
It isn't a dictatorship because they regularily have elections that everybody can vote in. Cuba's electoral prosses is as it is because of the, by any other case, unmatched external threat they have been under for 47 years.
If someone was, under all of your lifetime, starving you, attacking you with terrorist units, blocking your means of communicating with other people, just ****in you with every way he could, you would not be as open, loving, self assured, extrovert and have that good social skills that you have today.
You would do your best to be all those things, but your life would have been all too traumatised (as a psychiatrist probably would put it) for it not to show in you personality. You would be a bit "different" that the rest of the lads...
Of course they do, they just want another thing than ever could get on Cuba. We have to keep in mind that it is a 3rd world country, and as such people are going to want material stuff even more than those on this forum that have 5 bikes + God knows what not, and still want more.
We have loads of immigrants from 3rd world countries in Sweden too. They all have left because they can't fulfill their dreams in their native countries; political refugees; economic refugees; life explorers.. My parents are political refugees.
That is completely not true. Cuba doesn't differ form any other 3rd world country on this subject. If you don't have the means to buy an airplane ticket to Canada (no flights to the US, and who wants to go to Mexico
), it is going to be a looong swim.There are no restrictions for leaving Cuba, but there are when entering Western countries. If a Cuban comes to Sweden he has to show that he has enough money to pay for him self while here, and also provide proof of where he will live, friends etc, while visiting, if his money is limited.
This probably goes for most 3rd world visitors as the EU wants its refugees to apply for asylum from outside its borders, thus limiting the "problems" on home turf...
Agree, there are other things that distinguishes Castro, and other members of their parliament, from politicians in any other country. That is that they actually serve their people.
If you ask the people of ANY 3rd world country to name the most important things they want their politicians to do, they will probably say:
* I want enough food for me and my family,
* I want healt care for me and my family,
* I want education for my children,
* I want to be able to provide for me and my family,
As those very basic needs have been fulfilled he is going to want the same opportunities for him to get as good healt care, education, a job and pension as the rich white fella next to him.
Cuba's politicians have provided for those things. Not even in the soo equal country of Sweden do we have it that good, and it's way worse where you live.. Non of our countries lack the funding to give all these things to its inhabitants. Our countries just seem to prioritize weapons/wars and rebuilding 4way crossings to roundabouts instead.
Things like these have to be adressed before you and I can have the opportunity to fulfill our dreams of "making it" to jet seters. That is what distinguishes good politicians from bad.
If you go to Cuba I am sure everybody will say:
"yes, I want to go abroad and see something else", just like anybody I've spoken to anywhere. In Sweden it's mostly the darkness and the weather that gets us. But people of 3rd world countries don't have the means of leaving with enough money to start new lives elsewhere. Not many Swedes do eather.
I belive that you will find people that will complain about their daily lives just like we do; They're going to want some things to improve or change just like we do. But if you ask them if they would rather live in Honduras, Equador or any other Latin American country of equivalent GNP and I'm positive they will say no!
Don't fool your selves, 99% of the Cuban's do not want the US to "spead their democracy" to them. They do not want their houses (that they own or rent) to get back into the hands of their previous Miami fled wealthy owners. They do not want their commonly run/owned places of work to be taken over by their old Batista loving countrymen in Miami.
They are going to want the illegal blockade of the US to end, and normal relationships to commence. Then we will se a different Cuba, that is not as protectionistic as it is today, but that won't be allowed by the western politicians, as then the whole world will be able to see that a different type of world is possible, without starvation, malnutrition, poverty and analphabetism.
That will never be allowed to happen, because that would mean the end of the unjust and unequal distribution of wealth that exists today. Powerful men that have too much paper too lose will not allow us to see Cuba as it is today. The propaganda is immence and full of lies. The smallest of critisism is blown up as unique to their country, while the good things are silenced, not mentioned by the same medias, that they own.
Thing is, that as a US citizen, you will hardly be able to get an exemption to go to Cuba and see for your self. If you go via Canada or Mexico and they get notice of it you will be fined big $$$, 40000-70000 is very common. Your government are doing everything they can to censor you from learning the truth.
Think about it, you know that they are upto a whole heeps of dirty things they do on their own citizens; Clinton put Echelon to snoop on yo asses; dubya ****ed your constitutional rights even more. Don't you think they are going even further in foreign countries?
I will post the paragraphs of the electoral system of Cuba. Either a translation from my book (which you should double check!!!) or an exerpt and a liniky.
We should have a RM seance tonight!
If you look at Che's life, then I think you can come to a reasonable conclusion without disturbing him.
Rock, it is obvious that nothing anyone can say will change your perspective as you sit comfortably in your pseudo leftist comfort in Sweden, critiquing the evils of the US and trumpeting the revolution in hindsight, but President for Life sounds alot like Dictator. And he isnt elected by the people, he is elected by the NAoPP, his lackeys...
Seems you two know Che better that all those Cubans that have studied every text he wrote in school and at universities. They have failed to see what you see and foolishly believe that he went out to further the revolution in Bolivia.
Maybe I should ask Fernando, the father of my mentors best friend, who fought with him in Bolivia (actually he was their little erand boy as he was to young to fight), what Che thought and spoke of Castro?
Maybe we should ask Aleida Guevara, she hasn't bought that side of the story. But who is she to know?
Personaly I'm sure he's looking down from heaven in disgust when he sees how Cuban's share their GNP and what they have achieved under such harch surcumstances. Maybe, just maybe, he will allow him self to say that poor Cuba has achieved what the whealthy members of the UN promised its poorer brothers they would do for them decades ago.
Maybe I should ask Fernando, the father of my mentors best friend, who fought with him in Bolivia (actually he was their little erand boy as he was to young to fight), what Che thought and spoke of Castro?
Maybe we should ask Aleida Guevara, she hasn't bought that side of the story. But who is she to know?
Personaly I'm sure he's looking down from heaven in disgust when he sees how Cuban's share their GNP and what they have achieved under such harch surcumstances. Maybe, just maybe, he will allow him self to say that poor Cuba has achieved what the whealthy members of the UN promised its poorer brothers they would do for them decades ago.
more happiness by decree....
they do it because "they want luxuries", ¨they are greedy" and "do not support their fellow man revolution", not because they need to!!!.
dont you know??.
no chit, thats the argument i´ve heard many times on why cubans want to leave the island.
well, after all, in miami they can buy omre than 1 pound of beans a month....
"Cuban Idol" just doesnt compare.
Translation (to the best of my abilities) of the 14th chapter of the Cuban constitution from my book:
Chapter 14
The electoral system
§ 131
All citizens with legal competence have the right to participate in the leadership of the state, directly or by the chosen representative to the assemblies. They have the right trough the form that is prescribed in the law to participate in the periodic elections and referendums through free, equal and secret votes. Each voter has the right to one vote.
§ 132
All Cuban's, men and women that are older than sixteen years have the right to vote, with exceptions for:
a/ them who in a court have been found mentaly incapable,
b/ them who through a court decision have lost their right to vote as a consequence of comitting crimes.
§ 133
All Cuban citizens, men or women who enjoy full political rights, can be elected.
If the election is for the National Assembly they have to be older than eighteen years.
§ 134
Members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces and the countrys other military institutions have the right to elect and get elected the same way as the other citizens.
§ 135
The number of members in each and every Provincial- and Municipal Assembly is established by law in proportion to the number of inhabitants within respective areas that the country has been devided up into for the elections. The delegates to the Provincial and Municipal Assemblys are elected by the voters through free, direct and secret elections. The law also regulates the forms and the procedure at the election.
§ 136
To get elected the member has to receive more than half of the designated guilty votes in his own electoral district.
If that doesn't happen, or in other cases when seats aren't occupied, it is established by law in which way new elections shall be implemented.
Chapter 14
The electoral system
§ 131
All citizens with legal competence have the right to participate in the leadership of the state, directly or by the chosen representative to the assemblies. They have the right trough the form that is prescribed in the law to participate in the periodic elections and referendums through free, equal and secret votes. Each voter has the right to one vote.
§ 132
All Cuban's, men and women that are older than sixteen years have the right to vote, with exceptions for:
a/ them who in a court have been found mentaly incapable,
b/ them who through a court decision have lost their right to vote as a consequence of comitting crimes.
§ 133
All Cuban citizens, men or women who enjoy full political rights, can be elected.
If the election is for the National Assembly they have to be older than eighteen years.
§ 134
Members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces and the countrys other military institutions have the right to elect and get elected the same way as the other citizens.
§ 135
The number of members in each and every Provincial- and Municipal Assembly is established by law in proportion to the number of inhabitants within respective areas that the country has been devided up into for the elections. The delegates to the Provincial and Municipal Assemblys are elected by the voters through free, direct and secret elections. The law also regulates the forms and the procedure at the election.
§ 136
To get elected the member has to receive more than half of the designated guilty votes in his own electoral district.
If that doesn't happen, or in other cases when seats aren't occupied, it is established by law in which way new elections shall be implemented.
I forgot to ask you what you meant with that. Where does the saying come from? "As you say in Latin America" is that after all decrees the military juntas imposed in all of them countries?
It is their way of doing it, just like every commonwealth country has a Brittish governor who has supreme command of respective country and obeys only under the queen!
yeah, ok, that might be true.
In the mid 70's in Australia, about half a year after a socialist government had been elected, the Brittish governor there dismissed (not sure I'm using the right word, maybe abolished) the government. The people of Australia had nothing to say about it. Democracy was set aside for the rule of the queen.
Why was this done? That socialist government was about to open some of the secret police's files on its citizens. That would show the whole world what the secret police is upto in western countries. The queen didn't allow it...
Anyways, the 50% mark is very often used in at least presidential/prime minister elections in many countries. Don't ask me why, I find it strange. Just their way of doing things. Democratic, yes but different from Swedens...
Fact is that their actions are clouded by the propaganda lies that mainly your government and its machine is spreading.
Fact is that you are defending those lies without knowing better. How could you? You aren't allowed by your government to find out for your self!
If Cuba was such a bad example and ALL those things your government and your media spews out about them, it would only fit their purpose if its citizens could go there and come back and say "iiioouuu"!!! Wouldn't it?
You're right, I can only comment on what little I know... my Aunt was on the boat lift, she got out with her son (my half-cousin). Some didn't try, some didn't make it. My Uncle has spent lots of money getting the rest of her family out and into Venuzuela.
Castro sucks.
Castro sucks.
First off the only one clouded here is rockwool.
You seem to know all about Cuba - from the pro-Castro side only. There are plenty of films made by CUBANS that will attest to the living conditions and the distrust of the government. Try and see both sides before you make a judgement.
Secondly - the original post was about the media being censored by the government. Close, but no. Actually they are censored by Corporate America. Journalism is dead, news in order to get ratings and viewership is all we have left. The higher the ratings, the more they can charge for advertisements... and that is how they make their money. A free press does not exist anymore, it's been bought and sold.
You seem to know all about Cuba - from the pro-Castro side only. There are plenty of films made by CUBANS that will attest to the living conditions and the distrust of the government. Try and see both sides before you make a judgement.
Secondly - the original post was about the media being censored by the government. Close, but no. Actually they are censored by Corporate America. Journalism is dead, news in order to get ratings and viewership is all we have left. The higher the ratings, the more they can charge for advertisements... and that is how they make their money. A free press does not exist anymore, it's been bought and sold.
its means, in southamerica, reality and laws are almost two different worlds.
goverments usually come up with laws that say "everybody will be happy". but that doesnt mean it follows reality, or that reality follows. specially if the same govenment is the first to step on its laws.
Ok, I am an american and I have actually lived in cuba (4 months in 2004, studying at the university of havana) so maybe I can add some comments here.
If all you do is listen to the media or even to cuban exiles you have no hope of understanding the country.
Cuba is a democracy, although it works differently than any other country I've studied. The elections are mandatory, and they are only slightly more of a farce than US elections. However, the neighborhood elections are not the only mechanisms of representation. In theory, every Cuban is a member of some (and sometimes multiple) state sponsored organization whose democratically elected head usually holds a cabinet level position. Obviously some of these organizations wield more power than others, but they all make revisions and consult on legislation that effects the members.
As far as Fidel goes, his positon in the government is less a function of the constitution and more a result of his personal charisma and role in the revolution. He holds several positions simultaneously, though there is no constitutional reason for one person to occupy all those jobs. Post Fidel/Raul, those positions will probably be occupied by different people, creating a sort of separation of powers. Subsequent presidents will not be able to get away with executive orders either.
Are people there "free" in the ways that we are free? No, they cannot buy and sell property, start businesses, criticize Fidel, or take vacations abroad. They are also prohibited from accessing the internet without supervision, owning anything that might be used to disseminate ideas, operate satelite dishes etc etc. Many of them do these things anyway however.
They have free health care and education through university level, but the elements of social control inherent in these programs are quite obvious. For most people, life is hard and they are poor. Nobody starves to death, but they are very very poor.
The U.S. government encourages Cubans to flee with its wet foot/dry foot amnesty policy, and the economic collapse when the soviet union fell was unbelievably painful for the people of the island. The economy is still totally warped, based primarily on remittances, tourism, and stealing things from the government.
I certainly wouldn't want to live there, but the people are amazing and if you have a chance to get to know them, take it. You wont regret it.
If all you do is listen to the media or even to cuban exiles you have no hope of understanding the country.
Cuba is a democracy, although it works differently than any other country I've studied. The elections are mandatory, and they are only slightly more of a farce than US elections. However, the neighborhood elections are not the only mechanisms of representation. In theory, every Cuban is a member of some (and sometimes multiple) state sponsored organization whose democratically elected head usually holds a cabinet level position. Obviously some of these organizations wield more power than others, but they all make revisions and consult on legislation that effects the members.
As far as Fidel goes, his positon in the government is less a function of the constitution and more a result of his personal charisma and role in the revolution. He holds several positions simultaneously, though there is no constitutional reason for one person to occupy all those jobs. Post Fidel/Raul, those positions will probably be occupied by different people, creating a sort of separation of powers. Subsequent presidents will not be able to get away with executive orders either.
Are people there "free" in the ways that we are free? No, they cannot buy and sell property, start businesses, criticize Fidel, or take vacations abroad. They are also prohibited from accessing the internet without supervision, owning anything that might be used to disseminate ideas, operate satelite dishes etc etc. Many of them do these things anyway however.
They have free health care and education through university level, but the elements of social control inherent in these programs are quite obvious. For most people, life is hard and they are poor. Nobody starves to death, but they are very very poor.
The U.S. government encourages Cubans to flee with its wet foot/dry foot amnesty policy, and the economic collapse when the soviet union fell was unbelievably painful for the people of the island. The economy is still totally warped, based primarily on remittances, tourism, and stealing things from the government.
I certainly wouldn't want to live there, but the people are amazing and if you have a chance to get to know them, take it. You wont regret it.