[Electric_City]

A heads up about Kool-stop.

On their web page it states that the same pads are used on the Hope E4 and V4. I can tell you that they're not.

The E4 and Mono M4 are the same pads, Fwiw.

The E4 pads are slightly smaller in length. 3mm to be exact. If you try to put the V4's in the E4's they won't fit.

The E4 pads in the V4 caliper rock back and forth when you hold the brake and push/pull the bike. I think that can lead to damaging the caliper, snapping the pin causing you to lose your pads/brakes altogether or the pads getting jammed on the rivets of the disc.

They also reference "Tech 4 E4" which don't exist. I believe they mean "Tech 3 E4".

Don't buy the Kool-stop pads for Hope brakes at least.

 

[Sandwich]

magura will not warranty their brakes if you run anything other than magura blood or pads. I read a blurb that they advise against sintered pads....I guess I don't really need to worry about warranty since I run pentosin for fluid...

 

[djjohnr]

How would they ever know? If you had to send them in just push some of their oil through and swap the pads, or better yet don't send em in with pads.

 

[norbar]

Maybe it's been asked here since I'm blind but I've seen Vital or someone claiming Rachel runs one organic and one sintered pad. Can anyone explain why?

 

[troy]

Maybe it's been asked here since I'm blind but I've seen Vital or someone claiming Rachel runs one organic and one sintered pad. Can anyone explain why?

Probably due to vibration issues on trek frames - that is one of the solutions to this problem. They do run some vibration dampers on their brakes too.

 

[toodles]

On their web page it states that the same pads are used on the Hope E4 and V4. I can tell you that they're not.

The E4 pads are slightly smaller in length. 1-2mm. If you try to put the V4's in the E4's they won't fit.

The E4 pads in the V4 caliper rock back and forth when you hold the brake and push/pull the bike. I think that can lead to damaging the caliper, snapping the pin causing you to lose your pads/brakes altogether or the pads getting jammed on the rivets of the disc.

A pic for comparison. V4 is the slightly longer pad, the E4 is the dark coloured backing.

 

[Udi]

Maybe it's been asked here since I'm blind but I've seen Vital or someone claiming Rachel runs one organic and one sintered pad. Can anyone explain why?

See post #19 - although other pros have done this in the past too and it's for different reasons. In Shimano the sintered pads have more bite so I don't see any point in running one organic pad (especially because their heatsink solution is awesome). It could be for vibration reasons on Trek like troy said, and in the past Peat (I think) ran one each on Saints to reduce bite.

In other brands though, I've found the semi-sintered pads (EBC Red, Galfer Red, Formula semi-sintered, and to a lesser extent the TruckerCo semis) have more bite in the dry than the sintered pads - plus they have much more consistent bite through their wear life because they wear fast enough to avoid glazing. However organic/semi pads perform poorly in the wet, so you can have a useful combination of the benefits by running one of each. This definitely doesn't apply to all semi/organic pads though, you have to pick a good one to reap any benefit.

magura ... I read a blurb that they advise against sintered pads

That's a bit silly, I was surprised that they didn't make a sintered pad for their brake, now this.

 

[HAB]

@Udi, are you still running Shimano road pads in your ROs?

 

[Udi]

@Udi, are you still running Shimano road pads in your ROs?

I was but the whole brakeset got moved to my trailbike (still has those pads), the DH now has the same levers mated to Hayes Prime calipers for a bit more power on 650b.

 

[HAB]

I was but the whole brakeset got moved to my trailbike (still has those pads), the DH now has the same levers mated to Hayes Prime calipers for a bit more power on 650b.

Cool. They're working well though? I'm due for new pads soon, and the Shimano heat sinks are nice.

 

[Udi]

@HAB Yeah I had no problems with them, only complaint from memory was the pad area was slightly smaller (height) but I'd run them again. They seemed harder to glaze than the Formula sintered pads which was good. I also liked the Formula semi-sintered pads for bite (I used the alloy-backed ones) but they wear a bit fast.

Maybe try one pair first to see if you like them?

 

[6thElement]

Cool. They're working well though? I'm due for new pads soon, and the Shimano heat sinks are nice.

Which model of Shimano pads will work in Formula RO calipers?
I think I've still got spare Formula pads, but nice to know for the future.

 

[Udi]

Which model of Shimano pads will work in Formula RO calipers?
I think I've still got spare Formula pads, but nice to know for the future.

Shimano L04C, thread here:
http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/anyone-have-access-to-shimano-road-disc-pads.276375/

 

[StiHacka]

A pic for comparison. V4 is the slightly longer pad, the E4 is the dark coloured backing.

View attachment 125386

 

[Electric_City]

A pic for comparison. V4 is the slightly longer pad, the E4 is the dark coloured backing.

Just to clear up what Toodles wrote, the color of the back plate has nothing to do with which brake it's for (E4 vs V4). The V4's come with 2 different pads when you purchase them new- the Red backing and the Gold backing. The gold ones squeal like a pig. The Red ones wear down faster, but still last a season and don't kill the disc.

The E4's measure 3mm shorter than the V4's. 39mm < 42mm respectively.

 

[Udi]

Actually, the color of the back plate has nothing to do with which brake it's for (E4 vs V4).

He didn't say it did - that info was only to identify the pads in that particular picture.

The red-backed Hope pads are actually Galfer Red semi-sintered, an excellent pad.

 

[toodles]

Yup, i've got a set of sintered pads to try next pad change. Running the semi-sintered for now and they're still bedding in so too early to make the call. They do lose some bite in the wet though but will confirm once they're bedded and ridden in the wet again.

I used to quite like the standard sintered pads that I had from Shimano in my old Saints. I'm 99.9% sure they'll fit straight in my V4 calipers as well so might give that a go next time I have to change the pads on the V4s. The pad length and braking material height are practically identical, just the height from the retention pin to the braking material seems to differ.

 

[troy]

I would not be surprised if the original magura pads were made by Galfer too, as they do makes the rotors for magura (at least they did some time ago)

 

[Electric_City]

He didn't say it did - that info was only to identify the pads in that particular picture.

I first thought he meant that only E4's are red. But after re-reading it I got that he meant in that particular picture. Hence my edit.

While we're here though, you said the red's are semi-sintered. What are the gold screamers?

Also, what's the difference between organic, semi-metallic, semi-sintered, sintered etc... There seems to be this thing where different companies use different terms or are they actually different compounds altogether?

 

[Udi]

I first thought he meant that only E4's are red. But after re-reading it I got that he meant in that particular picture. Hence my edit.

While we're here though, you said the red's are semi-sintered. What are the gold screamers?

Also, what's the difference between organic, semi-metallic, semi-sintered, sintered etc... There seems to be this thing where different companies use different terms or are they actually different compounds altogether?

The gold ones are full-sintered. You could probably try Shimano for a better full-sintered pad.

They are just different terms - full sintered implies 100% metal construction (sintered = powdered metal solidified by heat/pressure). These are not all created alike but good ones have pretty good bite, work better in wet conditions, and last long. Everything else usually has some metal particles (hence "semi") and other compounds (can be synthetic or organic). Again, not all created the same - but the best ones have more bite than full-sintered pads and are less prone to glazing. The tradeoff is usually inferior wet weather performance and faster wear.

Full-sintered pads also transfer more heat to the caliper/fluid (while non-metallic pad materials act as insulators) which is why some brakes may warn against them.

 

[Sandwich]

I thought it was

Organic
Semi-metallic
Metallic/sintered

Organic being lower bite and shorter lasting with less noise

Metallic having higher bite, longer lasting, better heat resistance, and the potential for more noise.

Semi-metallic being a mixture of the two.

That's why, I thought, virtually all high end brakes come with sintered pads, except for magura because they're german.

 

[Udi]

Yeah maybe, but I've found most "organic" pads have metallic particles (thus are semi-metallic), and if they don't I'd probably avoid them for DH use anyway.

Either way, I think it's safest to talk about pads by referencing the exact brand and model because even under these vague designation umbrellas, there's a lot of variations between different pads.

 

[StiHacka]

Don't organic pads have the strongest bite but the shortest life?

 

[norbar]

See post #19 - although other pros have done this in the past too and it's for different reasons. In Shimano the sintered pads have more bite so I don't see any point in running one organic pad (especially because their heatsink solution is awesome). It could be for vibration reasons on Trek like troy said, and in the past Peat (I think) ran one each on Saints to reduce bite.

In other brands though, I've found the semi-sintered pads (EBC Red, Galfer Red, Formula semi-sintered, and to a lesser extent the TruckerCo semis) have more bite in the dry than the sintered pads - plus they have much more consistent bite through their wear life because they wear fast enough to avoid glazing. However organic/semi pads perform poorly in the wet, so you can have a useful combination of the benefits by running one of each. This definitely doesn't apply to all semi/organic pads though, you have to pick a good one to reap any benefit.


That's a bit silly, I was surprised that they didn't make a sintered pad for their brake, now this.

I loved my EBC red but Jesus those lasted a moment. Thanks for the reply. It makes sense. Also thank @troy

 

[Udi]

Don't organic pads have the strongest bite but the shortest life?

Yeah that was my understanding, but I think these days it's got something to do with vegans.

 

[Sandwich]

The 4 piece ones (performance) are supposed to use a different compound that will increase power. I haven't tried them yet since I bought a stack of the 2 piece ones. For aftermarket I've had good luck with EBC (haven't tried their Magura pads though). At least with EBC you're getting them from a company that has a lot of experience with brake pads across multiple vehicle formats vs some small bike company getting OEM pads from who knows where.

I've been looking into this and it actually seems that the 9.1 pads (the one piece setup) comes in either performance or comfort (blue back). My pads are 9.1. I'm checking with magura, but I'm guessing that the performance difference may come from the 4 pad setup vs. 2 pads.

I am very tempted to get those chinese pads but I don't have pad pins. I'm willing to bet they are the supplier for almost all brands on the market. Even the swisstop pads seem to have a similar construction. Anybody know if they are cross compatible between brands? I don't want to spend $25 on titanium posts.

 

[marshalolson]

I've been looking into this and it actually seems that the 9.1 pads (the one piece setup) comes in either performance or comfort (blue back). My pads are 9.1. I'm checking with magura, but I'm guessing that the performance difference may come from the 4 pad setup vs. 2 pads.

I am very tempted to get those chinese pads but I don't have pad pins. I'm willing to bet they are the supplier for almost all brands on the market. Even the swisstop pads seem to have a similar construction. Anybody know if they are cross compatible between brands? I don't want to spend $25 on titanium posts.

there is a "race" compound (8.R) from Magura on the 4-piece pads. no idea what it is. Pretty sure the OEM 4-piece pads come with the screws. BTI has all of them in stock, feel free to PM if you need help sourcing them.

 

[Sandwich]

Thanks for the heads up! Yes I just discovered those after emailing magura today. It looks like the 8.r is a sintered compound, based on what they told me. They also confirmed that the mt5s ship with performance pads. I'm not getting 8.1 performance pads in that case.

 

[djjohnr]

Nice find!

 

[maxyedor]

For wear reference, this Conti Trail King went in the same day as the rear pads. So that's about half a tire from a set of rear tires

%5BURL=http://s50.photobucket.com/user/maxyedor/media/Mobile Uploads/2017-05/A7664005-AADD-4EE9-93B5-8DD50DF9CCBF_zpszbicgpni.jpg.html][IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/maxyedor/Mobile Uploads/2017-05/A7664005-AADD-4EE9-93B5-8DD50DF9CCBF_zpszbicgpni.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

%5BURL=http://s50.photobucket.com/user/maxyedor/media/Mobile Uploads/2017-05/954F13C2-CA28-4FF8-BABB-D492C530B8A4_zpsthqox9mn.jpg.html][IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/maxyedor/Mobile Uploads/2017-05/954F13C2-CA28-4FF8-BABB-D492C530B8A4_zpsthqox9mn.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Hedging my bets, fingers crossed the China pads work though, at that price I don't even care if they glaze

%5BURL=http://s50.photobucket.com/user/maxyedor/media/Mobile Uploads/2017-05/E9C97510-3845-4A4D-8994-BFA290007C5C_zpsvkifjzbi.png.html][IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/maxyedor/Mobile Uploads/2017-05/E9C97510-3845-4A4D-8994-BFA290007C5C_zpsvkifjzbi.png[/IMG][/URL]

 

[Sandwich]

I can't see any of your photos, but best of luck with the china pads. I imagine they'll be fine. For me, I need pins too, and @ $25 for a set of 4 with two pins for the 8.r pads, that's hard to beat. I just want to find $15 worth of gear to add to my cart to get free shipping, otherwise it's $28 a pair.

 

[maxyedor]

Photobucket mobile sucks!

Where are you ordering the R pads from? Couldn't find them online in my brief search. Still undecided on even keeping the Mt5s, but I always liked the sintered Magura brand pads on previous brakes.

 

[Sandwich]

https://www.merlincycles.com/magura-disc-brake-pads-100983.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-US&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=MTB+Brake+Pads&ucpo=39837&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmIrJBRCRmJ_x7KDo-9oBEiQAuUPKMvg8D3DwH3zmhnYMfcDXVWN_DCIaWHjizZ37wkCrfW4aAq2E8P8HAQ

free shipping @$65. Hoping these will make the mt5 a standout brake, otherwise I'll do a lever swap with my XTs or just buy a set of SLXs once a year and bin them at the end...

 

[djjohnr]

Sandwich, what are you running for rotors? The Magura rotors are thicker than most; I found switching to their rotors pushed the bite point out and gave a perceived increase in power.

 

[Sandwich]

Formulas that came stock on my bike. I had read the same, that maguras are thicker, however I just can't believe that with fat pads and a good bleed, you could tell the difference. Clearance is really minimal on these brakes too.

I don't think it's the engagement of the brake, I just think organic pads can't hold up to DH racing at real parks. The trails that I complain about my brakes on put the hurt on a lot of different braking systems.

 

[StiHacka]

Formulas that came stock on my bike. I had read the same, that maguras are thicker, however I just can't believe that with fat pads and a good bleed, you could tell the difference. Clearance is really minimal on these brakes too.

I don't think it's the engagement of the brake, I just think organic pads can't hold up to DH racing at real parks. The trails that I complain about my brakes on put the hurt on a lot of different braking systems.

I run Magura MTS calipers. Worst rotor performance - Magura Storm & Galfer Wave. Best performance - Formula $9 rotors. Okay performance but $$ - Avid Centerline.

 

[Sandwich]

that's weird. doesn't surprise me with how weird magura is though.

when you did your frankebraking, did you use magura olives and barbs? some combo of the two? or shimano? the magura barb is a little bit different than the shimano, and supposedly the magura hoses are larger in diameter than shimano. I dunnolol.

 

[StiHacka]

that's weird. doesn't surprise me with how weird magura is though.

Both Magura and Galfer rotors were soft, little stopping power, deep gouging quickly.

when you did your frankebraking, did you use magura olives and barbs? some combo of the two? or shimano? the magura barb is a little bit different than the shimano, and supposedly the magura hoses are larger in diameter than shimano. I dunnolol.

Honestly I don't remember. I think I used Magura olives and barbs.

 

[troy]

when you did your frankebraking, did you use magura olives and barbs? some combo of the two? or shimano? the magura barb is a little bit different than the shimano, and supposedly the magura hoses are larger in diameter than shimano. I dunnolol.

When i was shortening the stock Magura hoses, I've used Shimano olives and barbs. No problems at all.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Sat down at my desk this AM and felt something crawling on my leg. It was a little Tick friend wanting to suck my blood. Now he is dead.

When i was shortening the stock Magura hoses, I've used Shimano olives and barbs. No problems at all.

Sapphire martini, up, one Shimano olive.