[amirh1]

Hey,
I want to ask about properly approaching a lippy jump with my DH bike. I race sports category and so still have a lot to learn in terms of technique.

So I can take 20' doubles at speed fine, and sometimes tend to be on the over-compensating side and land with my rear wheel. However, on the ones with steep takeoff that I approach in speed I keep getting bucked forward sometimes resulting in an OTH landing. The last one put me away for the better part of two weeks.

Of course you're not there, but does this sound familiar? What am I doing wrong? I assume that maybe I'm not compressing on the takeoff, but when I try to verify it it gets painful

Appreciate any help I can get!

 

[nelsonjm]

I'm completely unqualified to answer this, but am including this to hear what others have to say.

Are you braking on the jump? That seems like a good way to quickly throw the nose of the bike downwards.

 

[homepiece]

How do you have your suspension setup? Slow rebound fork and fast rebound on the rear will do this to you.

 

[norbar]

I have very fast rebound and sometimes when I'm not concetrated I was going a bit forward (not OTH though). Simply adjust your body position, ride a bit more back to the lip and if anything goes wrong steer the bike with your weight in the air.

 

[jonnynails]

I'm by no means an expert, but it seems that one or both of these may be happening:

1. your locking your arms out before take off and generally stiffening up your body instead of being loose and letting the bike tell you what to do with your body. If you anticipate the steep takeoff and start getting too far back before you hit the lip, this could throw you over the front. It will eventuallt come natural as you hit more jumps, but you don't want to throw your weight back until you are launching off the lip. Any sooner and you get the friendly nudge forward

2. Your rebound is too fast and is kicking you (rear suspension) up over the front or you are being pulled down by a fast front fork rebound.

 

[norbar]

I'm by no means an expert, but it seems that one or both of these may be happening:

1. your locking your arms out before take off and generally stiffening up your body instead of being loose and letting the bike tell you what to do with your body. If you anticipate the steep takeoff and start getting too far back before you hit the lip, this could throw you over the front. It will eventuallt come natural as you hit more jumps, but you don't want to throw your weight back until you are launching off the lip. Any sooner and you get the friendly nudge forward

2. Your rebound is too fast and is kicking you (rear suspension) up over the front or you are being pulled down by a fast front fork rebound.

Can going too far back before the lip really throw you front heavy? MY dirt riding friends gave me some pointers when I tried it and they always complained I'm waaaaaay to forward biased.

 

[rockofullr]

On lippy jumps it is more important to "pop" than on wedge shaped jumps.

This is something I learned from skiing and I think it has helped my MTB jumping. It may not apply and I am not the best DJer so take it for what it's worth.

When you "pop" off of a lip you imagine trying to jump straight up (for straight airs). This gives your body (and bike) momentum in an upward and balanced direction. If you don't pop your momentum will be determined by the lip.

Body position approaching the jump and popper suspension setup are important as well but if those things are ok than focus on your "pop".

Also, don't get discouraged, hitting lippy jumps on a big bike is far more difficult than on a HT or BMX.

 

[MDJ]

When you heal up, go riding with your faster friends and they will help you.

Basically, on lippy jumps your front wheel needs to still be going up until your rear leaves the lip. If you are already leveling off and your rear hits the lip it will buck you.

Ah, I'll just show you sometime...

 

[Kanye West]

Sooooooo what's everyones consensus about the fork rebound - slow rebound will make the back come up faster in comparison OR fast rebound will make the front drop away and level off sooner, making the back come up faster?

I've had this issue hitting short steep lips, like ones that are less than the length of the bike and are often called "bitchnipple" jumps. Pretty sure I'm bottoming out the back end trying to pop off them at all, and trying to flow over them sends the back end way up. Rebound feels even front to rear and generally in the middle of its range.

 

[MDJ]

Sooooooo what's everyones consensus about the fork rebound - slow rebound will make the back come up faster in comparison OR fast rebound will make the front drop away and level off sooner, making the back come up faster?

I've had this issue hitting short steep lips, like ones that are less than the length of the bike and are often called "bitchnipple" jumps. Pretty sure I'm bottoming out the back end trying to pop off them at all, and trying to flow over them sends the back end way up. Rebound feels even front to rear and generally in the middle of its range.

I personally don't think rebound really matters if your timing is right, but I'm sure others will disagree. My XL SX Trail has a reallly long wheelbase and we have a lot of small lippy jumps around here. I also ride my long DS bike on jumps made for 20" so I deal with this a lot.

This is a vast oversimplification, but it's all about the bunny hop (pop) when jumping these types of jumps. As soon as my front wheel leaves the lip, then I'm pulling up (and forward) on the bars until my rear leaves the lip. Then I can do what I want with the bike because the bunny hop gave me control. Oh, and preload right before hitting it.

I'm not a dirt jumper or the most stylish in the air, but this works for me. I'm sure others will explain it better.

 

[soul-skier]

On lippy jumps it is more important to "pop" than on wedge shaped jumps.

This is something I learned from skiing and I think it has helped my MTB jumping. It may not apply and I am not the best DJer so take it for what it's worth.

When you "pop" off of a lip you imagine trying to jump straight up (for straight airs). This gives your body (and bike) momentum in an upward and balanced direction. If you don't pop your momentum will be determined by the lip.

Body position approaching the jump and popper suspension setup are important as well but if those things are ok than focus on your "pop".

Also, don't get discouraged, hitting lippy jumps on a big bike is far more difficult than on a HT or BMX.

I agree. You need to pop lippy jumps. It sounds like you are setting up subconsciencely to scrub. If you have no idea what that means than be more aggressive in your approach and pop up the lip. An accidental scrub = OTB because you are sucking up the lip with the front tire and getting kicked by the lip with the back tire. Practice, practice, practice!

 

[jonnynails]

Can going too far back before the lip really throw you front heavy? MY dirt riding friends gave me some pointers when I tried it and they always complained I'm waaaaaay to forward biased.

So many variables involved. All depends on timing, body english, and how hard you pull the front, but in general yes - being too far forward is not good either. Go out and practice, practice and then practice some more.

 

[Kntr]

Slow down the rear rebound. I went through this at Whistler and found the slower the rebound in the rear the flatter the bike jumped. BUT with slower rebound you dont jump as far or high. You have to find a happy medium. Once you find it its a lot easier to jump.

 

[davep]

Obviously you are not alone in this (I have a screw in my wrist as proof)...the length combined with travel makes DH bikes a pain to hit short steep lippy jumps. As others have mentioned, (pro)actively trying to pop or get more air is the easy way IME to keep the bike in control in this type of situation.

Every time I have had this happen, it has been a situation where I have been apprehensive of my speed vs jump/landing size and tried to partially suck up the lip or tap the brakes. If you compress it all, then it is all good...if you mess the timing, or can't suck it all up due the the lip, or are thrown off due to brake force....things can go bad quick.


I would find a table with the kind of take-off you hate and a shoter length to the top flat. Now roll into it significantly slower than required to make the jump....

when you go off the jump, actively bunny hop (if you cannot do a true bunny hop (front wheel then back) of at least 6" work on this first) and amplify the pop to (try)get yourself over the top to the landing. Pull and push hard to get your bike up and over the jump..this action will dictate the flight of the bike. NEVER let yourself get enough speed to feel uncomfortable/apprehensive or as if you dont want to/have to try hard to make the 'gap'.

DO this over and over until you feel 100% comfortable on this particular jump. Once you get to this point, you can try to carefully approach things a little different like trying to squash or suck up a bit of the lip. Just remember, Never brake last minute and always agressively dictate how the bike comes off the lip.

I don't think that rebound makes a huge difference, but I have felt a difference in different DH bikes in how much they inherantly 'pop'. You might want to slow down rebound while you are first trying to get the bunnyhop and agressive pop. As you feel more comfortable, speed things up a small bit at a time.

 

[amirh1]

When you heal up, go riding with your faster friends and they will help you.

Basically, on lippy jumps your front wheel needs to still be going up until your rear leaves the lip. If you are already leveling off and your rear hits the lip it will buck you.

Ah, I'll just show you sometime...

MDJ, unfortunately I am the trailblazer amongst my ride buddies when it comes to jumps. I have this one guy who races Expert but he too waits for me to clear a jump before taking it, and I want to make sure I teach him properly so he doesn't go and buck himself as well.

As for the rest of the comments, what I gather from all of this is that I need to work on pop and also get looser & more relaxed. I don't use the brakes before jumps (unless I want to slow down to get better control, and then I usually don't get bucked). My rear suspension is set to slower rebound than front (IMO there's no other choice, since other than jumps we also do downhill). But there is apprehension which may be causing me to pop less and suck up the lip more, and I can envision why this is bad.

I will definitely practice - I even have just the jump I need in mind.

 

[Dog Welder]

Maybe its the way the jump is designed. Back when they were still having races at Big Bear there was one jump in particular that was of questionable design. Bucked a ton of people and also killed a Japanese downhiller. It seems like the jumps that have lips that are shorter than your wheelbase have a tendency to throw people as was the jump at Big Bear. If the lip is too short then the front wheel is in the air before the back wheel has even touched the lip...and when it does it causes the back to buck up and since there is nothing to support the front, it dives.

But that's just my experience...maybe others who have more jump building exp. have a better clue.

 

[big cal]

forget the rebound! you need to dial in some more compression damping. Really.

 

[MDJ]

I will definitely practice - I even have just the jump I need in mind.

If your ball(s) have shrunk enough (litterally, not figuratively) from you last visit then you need to head back out to Calabazas and practice. It'll be the best thing for you. I'll even off a free bunny hop session on the pavement if you'd like.

 

[Spahman]

odd... I was having a problem getting bucked like this because the rebound in my fork was too high. Lowered it and it made my bike perform much more predictable

 

[Spahman]

err but then again I was running the wrong spring rate in my rear end.
ignore my post