[kazlx]

I'm trying to build my first wheel. Pretty sure I can figure it out once I have everything I need, but the spoke calculators are driving me nuts. I purchased the wheel pro book, which is great.

I followed his instructions and measured my hub, which is a 150mm Hadley.

Measured ERD for my 823 at 530 using two cut spokes
The spoke hole center to center are 59mm
I measured the end of the hub to drive side flange at 49mm
End to rotor side flange at 44mm

This gives me his 'C' and 'D' of 31 and 26mm, which are the measurement from the flanges to the centerline.

All is dandy and I enter my numbers and get L:255.6 R:255.0


But then I enter the
Numbers at prowheelbuilder. They use different measurements for the calculator but they are the end to flange measurements instead of center to flange.

So I use the same measurements but with L:44 R:49
I get spoke lengths at L:257 R:256.5

This is driving me nuts. I just want to get the right spokes so I can build this wheel. What am I doing wrong?

 

[IH8Rice]

where did you get your hub measurements from? these are the numbers you should be using
http://www.sicklines.com/tech-info/hadley/H500205.pdf

 

[kazlx]

I took measurements with calipers right from the hub I'm using.

Even if I use the print measurements the calculations come out different on the different sites...

 

[HardtailHack]

Don't mess it up, I was impatient, measured it all up and thought she'll be right. Ordered a bunch of CX-Ray spokes that ended up being slightly too long and had to do 32H 4X pattern which saw spokes snapping at aboot the 500mile mark, they are scrap now

 

[Nick]

Try these numbers, direct from Hadley.
View attachment H500205 REAR 150MM ISO DISC A SIZE.pdf

Also, are you taking into account the use of 16mm nipples?

 

[jonKranked]

that rim ERD is subject to debate as well

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/mavic-ex823-erd-=-534mm-199420/

 

[kazlx]

Don't mess it up, I was impatient, measured it all up and thought she'll be right. Ordered a bunch of CX-Ray spokes that ended up being slightly too long and had to do 32H 4X pattern which saw spokes snapping at aboot the 500mile mark, they are scrap now

That's what I'm worried about. Or pissing away $40+ on spokes that are too short. Once I get the correct length, I don't think I'll have any problems building.

Try these numbers, direct from Hadley.
View attachment 114271

Also, are you taking into account the use of 16mm nipples?

Same diagram Rice posted. The numbers actually don't change much from using the numbers I measured. From everything I read, nipples are easily accounted for, but you need to calculate the spokes first. I plan on using 14mm as shown in the Wheel Pro book.

that rim ERD is subject to debate as well

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/mavic-ex823-erd-=-534mm-199420/

I measured the ERD myself with two spokes cut down to 200mm.

 

[Nick]

whoops, I skimmed over ih8rice's post.

If all else fails, call up one of the better wheel building online shops (go-ride, universal, etc) and ask them. If you need spokes, you can order them up from whomever is able to help you out.

I've built the exact wheel you're working on, but I didn't save my numbers. The only unfinished box of spokes I have in the garage are 255s.

 

[kazlx]

I'm right about there (255). With 14mm nipples, I keep coming back to 254mm spokes.

 

[jonKranked]

I measured the ERD myself with two spokes cut down to 200mm.

i don't always measure my ERD, but when I do, i still confirm it against the internet speculation specifications.

 

[jonKranked]

also, you paid money for a book to teach you how to build wheels? sheldon brown would've taught you for free, and he's dead.

 

[IH8Rice]

also, you paid money for a book to teach you how to build wheels? sheldon brown would've taught you for free, and he's dead.

YT is free too

 

[kazlx]

also, you paid money for a book to teach you how to build wheels? sheldon brown would've taught you for free, and he's dead.

It was like $12 and worth it.

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

 

[jonKranked]

i dunno, i learned how to build wheels from the internet in the late 90's. none of the wheels i've built have ever had a problem (and i've built several dozen wheels for myself and others). the only mix up i ever had was on a bmx wheel that was given to me in parts by another mechanic at my old shop; he failed to tell me the spokes were laced for 4x not 3x.

 

[kazlx]

Pretty sure it's not all that difficult. I just like having multiple sources of information and he has a very well organized 'book' that is well written and clear. I also like the fact I have it printed out and can have it sitting right there while I do it. I've built motors and all kinds of other random crap. Bike wheels seem pretty straightforward.

On I side note, I think I'm just going to go for it with 254s and 14mm nipples and see what happens.

 

[jonKranked]

yea, everyone learns differently.


rounding down is always a good rule of thumb when building wheels, try to avoid rounding down more than 1.5 to 2mm. i never drop down more than that and i build my wheels with pretty high tension.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

TL;DR full thread...


Given the measurements you listed, you could go 255mm all around and be ok....I wouldn't stress over it.

 

[kazlx]

Try it now.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

Uhh....wrong length?

 

[kazlx]

Not that I can tell...why? Laced up fine and will be put to the test at Snow Summit this weekend. I'll definitely be bringing an extra wheel just in case....

 

[Nick]

from the 2nd pic it doesn't look like your nipple inserts are installed all the way.

 

[jonKranked]

Uhh....wrong length?

first picture looks like they were taken before full tension.

 

[kazlx]

In the 1st pic, the wheel was just fitted. Spoke cups were installed about a turn and all the spokes and nipples were loosely installed. I put a drop of loctite on the cups and tightened them down. Then I oiled the nipples and inside of the cups and tightened/trued the wheel.

from the 2nd pic it doesn't look like your nipple inserts are installed all the way.

Cups are definitely tight. Snugged them down with the Park wrench.

 

[jonKranked]

did you pre-relax them and re-true?

 

[kazlx]

did you pre-relax them and re-true?

Just tighten them up and let them sit then re-true?

I put the wheel flat and pushed on the rim, you can definitely hear the spokes move. The wheel has been tensioned up for about a day. I was thinking about loosening it and re-doing it just for practice. It has a small hop in right now, but it was also a used rim, so not sure if it was super straight to begin with.

 

[Nick]

I'd throw a tire on there and pedal around the block, then re-true and tension again.

Nice job on wheel #1.

 

[kazlx]

Ended up putting two full days at the local lift park with it. Feels super solid, still true and no loose spokes. Win.

 

[blindboxx2334]

also, you paid money for a book to teach you how to build wheels? sheldon brown would've taught you for free, and he's dead.

or you can just sit down and look at another wheel. that doesnt even require any internets!

thats what i did.

 

[blindboxx2334]

Ended up putting two full days at the local lift park with it. Feels super solid, still true and no loose spokes. Win.

lucky dog. my rear wheels always come loose after i build them. luckily they stay tight after the first tru

also, not sure what you used for spoke prep. but if youre down to try new stuff, use linseed oil next time you build a wheel. love that stuff.

 

[kazlx]

lucky dog. my rear wheels always come loose after i build them. luckily they stay tight after the first tru

also, not sure what you used for spoke prep. but if youre down to try new stuff, use linseed oil next time you build a wheel. love that stuff.

That's what following the $15 book that I bought does for you

I just used regular 30w oil.

 

[GodSmack]

OK its kind of like cheating instead of measuring. I just tell a pro wheel builder at my LBS what hub/ rim combination im using. What lace, usualy 3 cross. Then he sells me the correct length spokes. If the spokes are the wrong length its the shop owners fault.
After the build I squeeze the spokes, detention then retention the spokes. Go for a ride around the block and true em up for the last time.
Packing tape makes for great rim strips.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

The last time I got the urge to build a wheel, I got lost in the spoke calculators as you did. Went to LBS to ask for help, they had the wheel I wanted already built, bought it. ANy time subesequently it needed a little tweak due to my abuse, they trued it on the spot, no wait.

Still gotta try building one again, haven't built one since I used to build them from curb-side discard parts in Cambridge in the 1970s.

 

[kazlx]

It was easy actually. I used the wheel pro site with the published hadley measurements and came out perfect. Built a couple already.

 

[jonKranked]

lucky dog. my rear wheels always come loose after i build them. luckily they stay tight after the first tru

this is normal. one way to accelerate this the to push on the wheel vertically (i've described this elsewhere)

also, not sure what you used for spoke prep. but if youre down to try new stuff, use linseed oil next time you build a wheel. love that stuff.

second boiled linseed oil. a gallon is like 20 bucks. i've got enough to build wheels the rest of my life.

 

[jonKranked]

speaking of wheel building, finally broke down and got a truing stand. there was a cyber monday sale on park tools, can't remember which site, but 25% off? i couldn't pass it up