But here it is, my first...Is it strong? No, Is i strait?...no not really...But i guess it would help if all the spokes fit and i didn't have to take spoke off of a diffrent wheel.
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Bulding wheels...is not easy
- Thread starter .Pit Steelers.
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...bring it to a shop along with $10 and have them "fine tune" it for you
Yes it is.
that's a profile hub and there are several online spoke calcs. I've been using dtswiss.com's lately...
Building wheels is a breeze, if you don't approach it the ghetto way. Start with the proper spokes, follow some instructions, and it's child's play.
Calculator: http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/
Instructions: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#lacing
Calculator: http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/
Instructions: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#lacing
I used Sheldon Brown, but i really thought it was going to be much easier then it was. Some of the spokes did not reach the nipple even when i tightend the trailing spokes like sheldon brown says, and when i did get them i would tighten it so much that the spokes pulled out the nipples. But these are not quailty spokes im sure there not wheel smith or dt there just some cheep ass brand that i got for $20.
How many turns did you initially put on the nipples? It sounds like you either put them on way too far initially, or your spokes are a little on the short side...
I like to install them all with about 3 turns, then crank them all down evenly. The dish is usually really close right off the bat that way too.
Don't worry, the next one will probably be a lot easier. Re-read the instructions a couple of times, I found that really helpful.
i paid attention to a guy building my wheel one time and tried it myself on my next wheelset and they came out practically perfect. i've been building my own wheels ever since. i always use the dt spoke calculator...
I think the spokes were just to short, atleast some of them because the spokes were not very tight when i started working on the other side i just used the screw driver to turn the nipple about 2 turns. Yeah my dish was WAY off the first time around so i loosened them all up and went threw it again. But again some the spokes were just to short and when i got them on one side they (the real tight ones) would start to pull. Yeah im sure the next one is going to be better. Just wanted to try it so i dont have the pay bike shops $50 or what ever there price is.
Funny, I just built my first wheel last night. Piece of cake! The spokes were pre-cut though, I'm sure that made it easier. Hopefully I'll do the math right when I build some new ones up.
Funny, how some consider building wheels as simple while others call it an art (as in requiring great skill)
I'd rather say it's an art. I considered it as a piece of cake too, right after I built my first set, but after a while came to realize that it's not so simple to build a true (perfectly round and straight) wheel that lasts under heavy conditions. And after all, I know more riders that don't even dare to touch a spoke wrench than riders that build their wheels from scratch.
I'd rather say it's an art. I considered it as a piece of cake too, right after I built my first set, but after a while came to realize that it's not so simple to build a true (perfectly round and straight) wheel that lasts under heavy conditions. And after all, I know more riders that don't even dare to touch a spoke wrench than riders that build their wheels from scratch.
There is no great skill required... Just some common sense. It might take a few tries to figure out proper tension, and how to get the dish right, or those hops out. But nothing about building wheels is rocket science.
Some people are mechanically and technically inclined, and some are not.
I've seen some people really eff up wheels using what they thought was common sense. to be build a wheel proper that lasts (stays true and tight) takes practice and experience. totally IMO...
I agree that there is the great skill that is required but that it takes experience more then anything to start buliding good wheels.
I agree. experiance is the biggest key I have found . and learning to just take is nice and easy don't try to rush it , and it will come out better and faster then when you try to rush it ( found out the hard way )
I guess I'm just lucky then... every wheel I've built, even the very first ones that I did with zero instructions turned out fine.
So your saying that you knew you all of this the first time, never looked at anything? Way to go, Champ.
The first spoke to be installed is the "key spoke" .
This spoke must be in the right place or the valve hole will be in the wrong place, and the drilling of the rim may not match the angles of the spokes. The key spoke will be a trailing spoke, freewheel side. It is easiest to start with the trailing spokes, because they are the ones that run along the inside flanges of the hub. If you start with the leading spokes, it will be more awkward to install the trailing spokes because the leading spokes will be in the way.
Since the key spoke is a trailing spoke, it should run along the inside of the flange. The head of the spoke will be on the outside of the flange. (see sidebar "Which side of the flange?")
It is customary to orient the rim so that the label is readable from the bicycle's right side. If the hub has a label running along the barrel, it should be located so that it can be read through the valve hole. These things will not affect the performance of the wheel, but good wheelbuilders pay attention to these things as a matter of pride and esthetics.
Rims are drilled either "right handed" or "left handed". This has to do with the relationship between the valve hole and the spoke holes. The spoke holes do not run down the middle of the rim, but are offset alternately from side to side. The holes on the left side of the rim are for spokes that run to the left flange of the hub. with some rims the spoke hole just forward of the valve hole is offset to the left, with others it is offset to the right (as illustrated). Which type is "right handed" and which "left handed"? I have never met anyone who was willing to even make a guess!
The key spoke will be next to or one hole away from the valve hole in the rim.
As viewed from the right (freewheel) side of the hub, the key spoke will run counterclockwise, and it will go to either the hole just to the right of the valve hole (as illustrated) or the second hole to the right, depending on how the rim is drilled. The aim is to make the four spokes closest to the valve hole all angle away from the valve, giving easier access to the valve for inflation.
Screw a nipple a couple of turns onto the key spoke to hold it in place. Next, put another spoke through the hub two holes away from the key spoke, so that there is one empty hole between them on the hub flange. This spoke goes through the rim 4 holes away from the key spoke, with 3 empty holes in between, not counting the valve hole.
Continue around the wheel until all 9 of the first group of spokes are in place. Double check that the spacing is even both on the hub (every other hole should be empty) and the rim (you should have a spoke, 3 empty holes, a spoke, etc. all the way around. Make sure that the spokes are going through the holes on the same side of the rim as the flange of the hub. It should look like this:
The second group
Now turn the wheel over and examine the hub. The holes on the left flange do not line up with the holes on the right flange, but halfway between them. If you have trouble seeing this, slide a spoke in from the left flange parallel to the axle, and you will see how it winds up bumping against the right flange between two spoke holes. Turn the wheel so that the valve hole is at the top of the wheel. Since you are now looking at the wheel from the non-freewheel side, the key spoke will be to the left of the valve hole.
If the key spoke is next to the valve hole, insert a spoke into the left flange so that it lines up just to the left of where the key spoke comes out of the hub, and run it to the hole in the rim that is just to the left of the key spoke.
The illustration shows it viewed from the right side:
In the illustration, the key spoke is right next to the valve hole. Some rims are drilled with the opposite "handedness" so this may not be the case for your wheel.
If the key spoke is separated from the valve hole by an empty spoke hole, insert a spoke into the left flange so that it lines up to the right of where the key spoke comes out of the hub, (looking at the wheel from the left!) and run this tenth spoke to the hole between the key spoke and the valve hole
If you have done this correctly, the spoke you have just installed will not cross the key spoke. When you flip the wheel back around so you're looking from the right side, if the tenth spoke is to the left of the key spoke at the hub, it will also be to the left of it at the rim. Like the first group of spokes, it will be a trailing spoke, it will run along the inside of the flange, and the head will face out from the outside of the flange. Install the other 8 spokes in this group following the same pattern.
At the end of this stage, the wheel will have all 18 of the trailing spokes in place. In the rim, there will be two spokes, two empty holes, two spokes, two empty holes...etc. as shown below:
The leading spokes
Turn the wheel back around so that the freewheel side is toward you. Insert a spoke into any hole, but this time from the inside of the flange. Twist the hub clockwise as far as it will conveniently go. Since we are building a cross 3 wheel, this new spoke will cross 3 trailing spokes that go to the same flange of the hub.
The first two crosses, this spoke will pass outside of the trailing spokes, but for the outermost cross it should be "laced" so that it goes on the inside of the last trailing spoke. You will have to bend this leading spoke to get it around the last trailing spoke on the correct side.
After this leading spoke has crossed 3 trailing spokes, there will be two possible rim holes to connect it to. Use the rim hole that is on the same side as the flange you are working from. It should not be right next to one of the trailing spokes that runs from the same flange of the hub.
Install the other 17 leading spokes following the same pattern. If you can't get some of the spokes to reach their nipples, make sure that the nipples on the trailing spokes are seated into their holes. When you are done, double check around the rim to make sure that every other spoke goes to the opposite flange of the hub.
Different cross numbers: The instructions above are based on a normal cross 3 pattern. If you are using a different cross pattern, substitute the appropriate numbers in the instructions above. With any cross number, only the outermost crossing is "laced" so the spokes go behind one another.
The first spoke to be installed is the "key spoke" .
This spoke must be in the right place or the valve hole will be in the wrong place, and the drilling of the rim may not match the angles of the spokes. The key spoke will be a trailing spoke, freewheel side. It is easiest to start with the trailing spokes, because they are the ones that run along the inside flanges of the hub. If you start with the leading spokes, it will be more awkward to install the trailing spokes because the leading spokes will be in the way.
Since the key spoke is a trailing spoke, it should run along the inside of the flange. The head of the spoke will be on the outside of the flange. (see sidebar "Which side of the flange?")
It is customary to orient the rim so that the label is readable from the bicycle's right side. If the hub has a label running along the barrel, it should be located so that it can be read through the valve hole. These things will not affect the performance of the wheel, but good wheelbuilders pay attention to these things as a matter of pride and esthetics.
Rims are drilled either "right handed" or "left handed". This has to do with the relationship between the valve hole and the spoke holes. The spoke holes do not run down the middle of the rim, but are offset alternately from side to side. The holes on the left side of the rim are for spokes that run to the left flange of the hub. with some rims the spoke hole just forward of the valve hole is offset to the left, with others it is offset to the right (as illustrated). Which type is "right handed" and which "left handed"? I have never met anyone who was willing to even make a guess!
The key spoke will be next to or one hole away from the valve hole in the rim.
As viewed from the right (freewheel) side of the hub, the key spoke will run counterclockwise, and it will go to either the hole just to the right of the valve hole (as illustrated) or the second hole to the right, depending on how the rim is drilled. The aim is to make the four spokes closest to the valve hole all angle away from the valve, giving easier access to the valve for inflation.
Screw a nipple a couple of turns onto the key spoke to hold it in place. Next, put another spoke through the hub two holes away from the key spoke, so that there is one empty hole between them on the hub flange. This spoke goes through the rim 4 holes away from the key spoke, with 3 empty holes in between, not counting the valve hole.
Continue around the wheel until all 9 of the first group of spokes are in place. Double check that the spacing is even both on the hub (every other hole should be empty) and the rim (you should have a spoke, 3 empty holes, a spoke, etc. all the way around. Make sure that the spokes are going through the holes on the same side of the rim as the flange of the hub. It should look like this:
The second group
Now turn the wheel over and examine the hub. The holes on the left flange do not line up with the holes on the right flange, but halfway between them. If you have trouble seeing this, slide a spoke in from the left flange parallel to the axle, and you will see how it winds up bumping against the right flange between two spoke holes. Turn the wheel so that the valve hole is at the top of the wheel. Since you are now looking at the wheel from the non-freewheel side, the key spoke will be to the left of the valve hole.
If the key spoke is next to the valve hole, insert a spoke into the left flange so that it lines up just to the left of where the key spoke comes out of the hub, and run it to the hole in the rim that is just to the left of the key spoke.
The illustration shows it viewed from the right side:
In the illustration, the key spoke is right next to the valve hole. Some rims are drilled with the opposite "handedness" so this may not be the case for your wheel.
If the key spoke is separated from the valve hole by an empty spoke hole, insert a spoke into the left flange so that it lines up to the right of where the key spoke comes out of the hub, (looking at the wheel from the left!) and run this tenth spoke to the hole between the key spoke and the valve hole
If you have done this correctly, the spoke you have just installed will not cross the key spoke. When you flip the wheel back around so you're looking from the right side, if the tenth spoke is to the left of the key spoke at the hub, it will also be to the left of it at the rim. Like the first group of spokes, it will be a trailing spoke, it will run along the inside of the flange, and the head will face out from the outside of the flange. Install the other 8 spokes in this group following the same pattern.
At the end of this stage, the wheel will have all 18 of the trailing spokes in place. In the rim, there will be two spokes, two empty holes, two spokes, two empty holes...etc. as shown below:
The leading spokes
Turn the wheel back around so that the freewheel side is toward you. Insert a spoke into any hole, but this time from the inside of the flange. Twist the hub clockwise as far as it will conveniently go. Since we are building a cross 3 wheel, this new spoke will cross 3 trailing spokes that go to the same flange of the hub.
The first two crosses, this spoke will pass outside of the trailing spokes, but for the outermost cross it should be "laced" so that it goes on the inside of the last trailing spoke. You will have to bend this leading spoke to get it around the last trailing spoke on the correct side.
After this leading spoke has crossed 3 trailing spokes, there will be two possible rim holes to connect it to. Use the rim hole that is on the same side as the flange you are working from. It should not be right next to one of the trailing spokes that runs from the same flange of the hub.
Install the other 17 leading spokes following the same pattern. If you can't get some of the spokes to reach their nipples, make sure that the nipples on the trailing spokes are seated into their holes. When you are done, double check around the rim to make sure that every other spoke goes to the opposite flange of the hub.
Different cross numbers: The instructions above are based on a normal cross 3 pattern. If you are using a different cross pattern, substitute the appropriate numbers in the instructions above. With any cross number, only the outermost crossing is "laced" so the spokes go behind one another.
keep at it ... the next wheel will be easier.
Looks like you got all the crosses right. Better than I can say for my first go at it. Do I spy an Arrow rim?
This is all I did:
First Part (I did not look at this)
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(I already felt I had enough "experience" to start here)
Building it:
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Tueing It (I didn't watch this all the way through)
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First Part (I did not look at this)
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(I already felt I had enough "experience" to start here)
Building it:
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Tueing It (I didn't watch this all the way through)
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Yep it's an FRX have had goodluck with it on the big bike so decided i would put it on this bike. But might be rebulding the profile hub to a Dt Swiss 5.1 and putting the frx on the big bike so i can have matching wheels.
Ha alright yeah i really never felt like i was gonna have an easy time, but i did think it would be easier then it was. But again this is becasue some of the spokes would not reach the nipple no matter what.
Is that a Brown Profile hub?
Yep it is, if you want a better picture i can throw one up.
front wheels don't have to be 100% perfect. PSH i have chrome 12 gauge spokes on the disc side and black 14 gauge spokes on the non-disc side. And i have to say... it's one super stiff wheel. I was even off like 3mm's but was able to crank down the spokes till they squeeled like a pig.
Back wheels are different. those should be as perfect as possible.
just my 2 cents
Back wheels are different. those should be as perfect as possible.
just my 2 cents
The first ones I built I did by looking at another completed wheel. It took quite a while, and I'm pretty sure I screwed up the placement of the spokes relative to the valve hole... The wheels held up to a lot of abuse though.
Keep at it!
When I build my wheels, I put all of the spokes into the hub at the beginning. That includes all leading/trailing spokes. Then I make a 4-point star out of them. So in a 36 spoke hub, I take one flange and seperate out 9 spokes on each side, 180 degrees from each other, and elastic them. Then I flip it over and do the same for the other 18 spokes - but 90 degrees from the original flange side. It lookes like a 4-point weapon.
Then I undo one set of spokes and put in the 1st set of spokes next to the valve opening on the rim. That way I start with the perfect straight spoke that does not "cover" the valve. From there I finish one side correctly lining up the spokes. Then I flip it over and mirror image the 2nd side.
Then the secret is to tighten the spoke down evenly and just start to create some tension. I then take the wheel and place on the floor. I tap the spokes on the flange to "bend" the spokes to the flange angle. I do this on the inside and outside of the flange using a small hammer (outside) and a hammer and metal rod (inside). This trick really distributes the forces evenly on the spokes so that each spoke rests on the flange slightly.
Then I tighten so that I can dish the wheel. 90 % of the time I don't need to re-dish it at all. Then tighten to the right tension.
Using bees wax or spoke prep on the initial build will really help to tension the wheel. It also prevents spoke twisting. lastly I will add a drop of light lock-tite to each nipple, spin the wheel at max velocity in the stand and then wipe the excess.
Then I undo one set of spokes and put in the 1st set of spokes next to the valve opening on the rim. That way I start with the perfect straight spoke that does not "cover" the valve. From there I finish one side correctly lining up the spokes. Then I flip it over and mirror image the 2nd side.
Then the secret is to tighten the spoke down evenly and just start to create some tension. I then take the wheel and place on the floor. I tap the spokes on the flange to "bend" the spokes to the flange angle. I do this on the inside and outside of the flange using a small hammer (outside) and a hammer and metal rod (inside). This trick really distributes the forces evenly on the spokes so that each spoke rests on the flange slightly.
Then I tighten so that I can dish the wheel. 90 % of the time I don't need to re-dish it at all. Then tighten to the right tension.
Using bees wax or spoke prep on the initial build will really help to tension the wheel. It also prevents spoke twisting. lastly I will add a drop of light lock-tite to each nipple, spin the wheel at max velocity in the stand and then wipe the excess.
Oh yeah i am going to keep bulding my own for sure, it's so much better knowing how to do it your self then having to wait on someone eles to do it for you. Dirtbag, that sounds a bit to complex for me, i just started so i just really grabbed any random spoke and stuck it in. If i did it that way i would have a way bigger chance making mistakes. Why do you think the front dont need to be that good but the back does? I dont know.
nice tips in here.
one thing that didn't come up yet though (2nd thought: Dirtbag's hammering tip more or less covers this): I used to just build the wheel, make it nice'n'straight, put it on the bike and have a go with it. Then after an hour use the spoke wrench to adjust, and again and again during a couple of days. Seemed that it took a while for the forces to even out, probably because tension wasn't the same on each spoke.
I figured the process would shorten if I could get enough force on the wheel while building it; so the next wheels I would just randomly smash against a wall, or put in a bike before they were finished, and both solutions did the trick: much, much less adjusting afterwards.
Anybody knows how 'professional' builders do this? Or are they just so good that they don't need to 'preload'?
one thing that didn't come up yet though (2nd thought: Dirtbag's hammering tip more or less covers this): I used to just build the wheel, make it nice'n'straight, put it on the bike and have a go with it. Then after an hour use the spoke wrench to adjust, and again and again during a couple of days. Seemed that it took a while for the forces to even out, probably because tension wasn't the same on each spoke.
I figured the process would shorten if I could get enough force on the wheel while building it; so the next wheels I would just randomly smash against a wall, or put in a bike before they were finished, and both solutions did the trick: much, much less adjusting afterwards.
Anybody knows how 'professional' builders do this? Or are they just so good that they don't need to 'preload'?
Actully thats the same thing i did, When me and a few off my freinds were up in Whistler way back in 04 i tacoed my wheel and had my freind build a new one up. That's the first thing he did bulit it up and hit it on the floor, worked perfect. Did the same thing with my wheel the other day threw a tire on it and whacked it a few times. Seems to have helped it.
Sheldon Brown's site mentions using an old crank arm to pre-stress the spokes.....
yep, prestressing is a major component in good wheel building...