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Bush backs Intelligent Design

GumbaFish

GumbaFish

Turbo Monkey
Oct 5, 2004
1,747
0
Rochester N.Y.
Anyways this is neither here nor there. You said I can't see evolution, well of course I cant see it that is a ridiculous arguement. What if I could only live for 10 minutes and all I did was sit there and stare at you, I'd say aging is a load of bs and people dont age at all. If I could live for a billion years and sit and watch life on earth then guess what I'd probably be able to see evolution.
 
Changleen

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,355
2,466
Pōneke
Kihaji said:
We can't "see" gravity, only it's effects. Does that mean gravity is useless? For that matter, we can't "see" evolution as it happens, only after it has happened, so does it matter what we call it?
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Gravity is measurable and repeatable. I can say: "If I drop this object in proximity to a mass the size of the Earth, it will accelerate toward that body at 9.8m/sec/sec, unless acted on by another force." And no matter how many times we do this, it always happens. Even if you drop something and have a 1000 people pray it won't fall, it still does.

Now wanna try a repeatable experiment with prayer? I have one for you. Pray that nothing will happen as a result of your prayer. That's the only one that has been shown to work repeatably.

Seriously. If you can't understand the difference between science and religion, you are pretty retarded.
 
Changleen

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,355
2,466
Pōneke
Kihaji said:
You "measure" that field by observation of how it affects other objects. In fact, you can generalize that to almost all, if not all, things classified as forces. It's a technicality of semantics, but it is an important one.
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What the fvck are you talking about, you fvcking retard?
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Changleen said:
Now wanna try a repeatable experiment with prayer? I have one for you. Pray that nothing will happen as a result of your prayer. That's the only one that has been shown to work repeatably.
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what if i pray you read this useless post?
how can you prove "nothing happens as a result"? you'd have to assume a shelf-life, i reckon. also, aren't prayers that are outside of God's will routed to /dev/null?
Changleen said:
Seriously. If you can't understand the difference between science and religion, you are pretty retarded.
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what about those for whom science is religion? is this not opiate for the unfalsifiable masses?
 
Secret Squirrel

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,150
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
$tinkle said:
what if i pray you read this useless post?
how can you prove "nothing happens as a result"? you'd have to assume a shelf-life, i reckon. also, aren't prayers that are outside of God's will routed to /dev/null?
what about those for whom science is religion? is this not opiate for the unfalsifiable masses?
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So, if I pray for my neighbor not to sleep with my wife but he still does, what does that mean?
 
GumbaFish

GumbaFish

Turbo Monkey
Oct 5, 2004
1,747
0
Rochester N.Y.
Sure prayers can do something for you, the mind is a powerful thing and so is hope. Placebo's anyone? I am not dismissing it, I am not dismissing God but there is a lot to be said for the will of man. Personally I am much more amazed sitting in an anatomy class seeing how efficiently our circulatory system is engineered or the way termites build their mounds which allow for an air circulation system in the colony using pressure gradients then I am about an old guy with a beard thinking and instantly creating all life on earth. I'd much rather ponder how things came to be as they are then just have the same token answer it was God's will for everything.
 
Changleen

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,355
2,466
Pōneke
$tinkle said:
what if i pray you read this useless post?
how can you prove "nothing happens as a result"? you'd have to assume a shelf-life, i reckon. also, aren't prayers that are outside of God's will routed to /dev/null?
what about those for whom science is religion? is this not opiate for the unfalsifiable masses?
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You were right about that being a useless post.

Maybe when you pray that little Suzy recovers from her horrific car crash injures, god actually starves some Indian kids to death? Or kills some kittens?

And whats this crap about a prayer router? The new Cisco 10/100 divinity router?
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
$tinkle said:
also, aren't prayers that are outside of God's will routed to /dev/null?
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Which, assuming that God exists (and making a bunch of Christian assumptions, which are as good as any other religious assumptions) means that prayer is useless. An answered prayer is one that by the definition of God's omnipotence was going to happen anyways.
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Changleen said:
And whats this crap about a prayer router? The new Cisco 10/100 divinity router?
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it would have to use OSPF or bellman-ford algorithms; reverse-path-forwarding wouldn't make much sense for those about to die (these are a rather demanding bunch).
 
jaydee

jaydee

Monkey
Jul 5, 2001
794
0
Victoria BC
Kihaji said:
And many scientific theories started out as beliefs. In fact one could easily argue that all of science is a belief itself.

A few hundred years ago, Galileo believed that the Earth was not the center of the universe, but couldn't prove it until he created the telescope.

A hundred years ago Henri Becquerel believed in radiation, until he used the right tool (photographic plates) to view them.

For centuries people have believed in some sort of higher power, God, Allah, what have you, but have been unable to prove it. Is it because that power doesn't exist, or because perhaps we don't have the tools to see it? Because remember, absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense.
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You're getting your beliefs all confused with your hypotheses. A scientist has to start with some idea of what he's investigating, so he will make a hypothetical statement and then try to prove or disprove it. That is nothing like a belief.
 
Old Man G Funk

Old Man G Funk

Choir Boy
Nov 21, 2005
2,864
0
In a handbasket
Kihaji said:
And many scientific theories started out as beliefs. In fact one could easily argue that all of science is a belief itself.

A few hundred years ago, Galileo believed that the Earth was not the center of the universe, but couldn't prove it until he created the telescope.

A hundred years ago Henri Becquerel believed in radiation, until he used the right tool (photographic plates) to view them.

For centuries people have believed in some sort of higher power, God, Allah, what have you, but have been unable to prove it. Is it because that power doesn't exist, or because perhaps we don't have the tools to see it? Because remember, absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense.
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To further what Jaydee just said, many "beliefs" as you call them sprout from inaccuracies in present theories, or holes in our knowledge. Galileo didn't simply decide to believe in a heliocentric solar system. He came to that conclusion through observing the shortcomings in what was the present theory.

You'll also note that both your examples were of testable hypotheses. Religion and ID are inherently non-testable. Big difference.

Lastly, to argue that all of science is a belief in itself is to wholly dismiss the scientific enterprise. Science proceeds through observation, testing, and verification. Things are not allowed to be accepted solely on belief. If something can not follow the scientific method, it ain't science. If it can follow the scientific method, then there is no reason for belief.
 
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