[snowskilz]

Why are the Go ride low rider crowns so much more expensive than the risse? Looking at the crowns there is little difference between the 2 and there is a 100 price difference for the set?

I am going to buy one of these sets and would like to by the GR crowns but the price difference makes no sense.

thx

 

[punkassean]

just a thoguht but maybe GR desgined their crowns and has the production outsourced, therefore they charge additional mark up to cover the added production expenses? Where as Risse's crowns are completely made in house, eliminating the middle man and lowering the final cost? Pure speculation maybe James@GR can pipe in.

 

[neversummersnow]

Yea, the post above could be right and it could also come down to the time needed to machine the part/VOLUME. For those that don't know yet, making money in the bike industry revolves more and more around...VOLUME.

 

[buildyourown]

(disclaimer: this is complete hear-say)
The way I heard it was a friend of go-ride made a few sets and then they realized there was a huge market for them and decided to make more. The guy doing them is doing it as a side job which is why the availability of them was limited. Risse came onto the seen late and tryed to undercut go-ride's price. I haven't seen the Risse's but the go-ride's are nicely done. As a machinist, I can appreciate the programing and machine time that goes into those.

I think what it comes down to is Risse is trying to get your attention with the lower price. If they were priced the same, which one would you choose?

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by neversummersnow
Yea, the post above could be right and it could also come down to the time needed to machine the part/VOLUME. For those that don't know yet, making money in the bike industry revolves more and more around...VOLUME.

I don't think either of those were done in volume and both were made in the US. Risse, however, can do theirs in-house. Face it, machining stuff in the US is frickin pricey

 

[zedro]

it also depens how they were designed which affects how they are made. Machining processes get more expensive if multiple setups are used, as well as more intricate (slower) processes. Then you get designing and programming costs, as well as prototyping etc. Also they may be setting a price according to a very low production number estimate (the market is really small), which in their case might be as low or lower than 25 (originally they were only going to make around 10 i think they said), plus estimated warranty returns if any.

Even the difference in materials can make a difference, like using 7075 Al which is three times more expensive than 6061 Al, although i dont know what the respective crowns are made from.

 

[Kornphlake]

Originally posted by buildyourown
I don't think either of those were done in volume and both were made in the US. Risse, however, can do theirs in-house. Face it, machining stuff in the US is frickin pricey

Ha, it doesn't cost me a cent, I get a print, take it to the machinist and a few days later I have the part, if I want it quick and dirty I do it myself.

Of course this only applies to what's related to my job. Our machinist's pay scale is about the same as the engineer's, some companies it's slightly higher, mold and tool makers are paid top dollar. So yeah it's pretty darn expensive just to have stuff like this machined. I always scratch my head when I look at the amount of machining done on a mag lite and wonder how they can sell the things for under $20. High volume helps, compare a CK headset to a mag lite subtract the cost of bearings, add the cost of some molded plastic parts and you see there's a huge differance in cost.

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by zedro
it also depens how they were designed which affects how they are made. Machining processes get more expensive if multiple setups are used, as well as more intricate (slower) processes. Then you get designing and programming costs, as well as prototyping etc. Also they may be setting a price according to a very low production number estimate (the market is really small), which in their case might be as low or lower than 25 (originally they were only going to make around 10 i think they said), plus estimated warranty returns if any.

Even the difference in materials can make a difference, like using 7075 Al which is three times more expensive than 6061 Al, although i dont know what the respective crowns are made from.

Not to get to technical, but I noticed the relief on the go-ride's crown was hem-stitched. Very slow on most mills, a pain to program, but also trick. I also heard the original numbers were very low.

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by Kornphlake


Of course this only applies to what's related to my job. Our machinist's pay scale is about the same as the engineer's, some companies it's slightly higher, mold and tool makers are paid top dollar.

That's funny. I make alot more as a wannabe engineer without a degree than I ever did as a toolmaker.

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by buildyourown
Not to get to technical, but I noticed the relief on the go-ride's crown was hem-stitched. Very slow on most mills, a pain to program, but also trick. I also heard the original numbers were very low.

please do get technical, an explain what hem-stitched means. Never heard the term before.

 

[punkassean]

Originally posted by zedro
please do get technical, an explain what hem-stitched means. Never heard the term before.

yoo no, when yer pants is too long and you gots ta take em in a bit, thats what's a hem-sticth is, duh.

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by zedro
please do get technical, an explain what hem-stitched means. Never heard the term before.

Take a look at this picture. The angle on the bottom front of the lower cronw isn't a constant angle and it flows seamlessly in the rad as it blends into the bores for the stantions. There are several ways to cut this:

A.) Put it on a $2 mil 5 axis mill and use an endmill to cut the angle. Quick, but machine time on these is high.

B.) Use a much cheaper 3 axis mill and a small ballnose endmill. You program the tool to move up and down along the angle. The tool only cuts with the tip and then moves over .005-.010" and then makes another pass. Repeat about 300 times. You can tell this is how it was done because it leaves telltail tool marks. The tighter you make the resolution, the better the finish gets and the longer it takes. It's called stitching because the spindle of the machine looks like a sewing machine doing a hem stitch.

I made some Ti stems this way. They were trick but crazy expensive.

I said I didn't want to get technical, but you asked

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by buildyourown
Take a look at this picture. The angle on the bottom front of the lower cronw isn't a constant angle and it flows seamlessly in the rad as it blends into the bores for the stantions. There are several ways to cut this:

A.) Put it on a $2 mil 5 axis mill and use an endmill to cut the angle. Quick, but machine time on these is high.

B.) Use a much cheaper 3 axis mill and a small ballnose endmill. You program the tool to move up and down along the angle. The tool only cuts with the tip and then moves over .005-.010" and then makes another pass. Repeat about 300 times. You can tell this is how it was done because it leaves telltail tool marks. The tighter you make the resolution, the better the finish gets and the longer it takes. It's called stitching because the spindle of the machine looks like a sewing machine doing a hem stitch.

I made some Ti stems this way. They were trick but crazy expensive.

I said I didn't want to get technical, but you asked

ahh, ok, my machinists never gave me the lingo. On my project bike the swingarm brace has a hem-stitch from the 3 axis mill. There were supposed to be such features on the swingarm and sub-frame but they had to be omitted due to lazy i mean time strapped machinists. The parts were designed with the new 5 axis mill in mind but they were still troubleshooting the mill and Catia NC tool path software and post-processor, so only the sub-frame was machined with it, but again with missing features.

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by zedro
ahh, ok, my machinists never gave me the lingo. On my project bike the swingarm brace has a hem-stitch from the 3 axis mill. There were supposed to be such features on the swingarm and sub-frame but they had to be omitted due to lazy i mean time strapped machinists. The parts were designed with the new 5 axis mill in mind but they were still troubleshooting the mill and Catia NC tool path software and post-processor, so only the sub-frame was machined with it, but again with missing features.

UUhhhgg *shutter* catia. I had to learn it when I worked for a boeing contractor. For 99% of jobs, its just not worth it. There are alot of programs that produce better code with less headache. My project bike looks alot like pictures I've seen of yours. It should be done in a few months. I've been saying that for 2 years.

 

[punkassean]

lets see some pics of both of your bike designs...

 

[MikeT]

hey I cant find the old thread with the pics of zedro's bike, or just pics of zedro's bike. Can anyone post a link, or the pictures please?

thanx

-Mike T.

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by buildyourown
UUhhhgg *shutter* catia. I had to learn it when I worked for a boeing contractor. For 99% of jobs, its just not worth it. There are alot of programs that produce better code with less headache. My project bike looks alot like pictures I've seen of yours. It should be done in a few months. I've been saying that for 2 years.

yeah i have a love/hate relationship with Catia. I learnt solid-modelling on it as well as other features, so i'm kinda hooked on it for better or for worse. I have Solidworks on my machine now but its hard to motivate myself to learn a whole new GUI and modelling infrastructure.

the thing that really bugs me is its stability, or lack thereof, at least on my machine. Sometimes the parametric associations get messed-up for some reason; the actual sub-frame of my bike is rotated (ie. the main pivot is not exactly where i originally intended it to be) because of this, and i only caught the error after the part spec was submitted to the machinist. Not a huge deal, but it did alter the geometry off-spec a bit. Crashes once and awhile dont help either. Supposidly its really sensitive to what hardware and drivers are running, probably why they have an 'approved' system configuration list. I should upgrade my release too (V5R7, think its upto V5R15 now), it seems the software is truly a work in progress, theres not even backwards compatability with release versions.

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by MikeT
hey I cant find the old thread with the pics of zedro's bike, or just pics of zedro's bike. Can anyone post a link, or the pictures please?

thanx

-Mike T.

weird, i cant find the threads on mtbr or ridemonkey...its like they got dumped. anywho heres some pics, current setup may differ....

 

[MikeT]

thanx for posting the pics, good job on the bike, looks like a fun/interesting project

-Mike T.

 

[RaID]

i like it zedro

whats the rough weight of the beast?

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by RaID
i like it zedro

whats the rough weight of the beast?

when that pic was taken, around 55lbs, but i've since shaved down some weight off the frameset and fork. The original frameset target weight was 12.5lbs but it went up some since some machining operations were dropped from the design due to time constraints, as well as some last minute modifications. I dont notice the weight that much surprinsingly, i guess because its such an improvement in ride over the last bike.

 

[MMike]

CATIA rules....

Well...v4 does. I sat down in front of v5 the other day and couldn't even draw a line. What's with all the sketcher stuff? Can you not just draw stuff directly?

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by MMike
CATIA rules....

Well...v4 does. I sat down in front of v5 the other day and couldn't even draw a line. What's with all the sketcher stuff? Can you not just draw stuff directly?

the sketcher is just a more advanced drawing environment that you pre-select a plane for before entering. You dont need to use the sketcher though; you can create a point, circle or line directly in the Part design environment, or more complex 1-D forms in the Wireframe and Surface design environment.

Catia is fairly easy once you get the basic tour. I could probably give you a tutorial if needed....

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by zedro
the sketcher is just a more advanced drawing environment that you pre-select a plane for before entering. You dont need to use the sketcher though; you can create a point, circle or line directly in the Part design environment, or more complex 1-D forms in the Wireframe and Surface design environment.

Catia is fairly easy once you get the basic tour. I could probably give you a tutorial if needed....

Cool...I may just take you up on that one day.....

 

[Zoso]

Hell yeah Zedro. I thought my friend Russ and I were the only riders in existence who ran Michi comp32 2.8 front AND rear. Good to see there are some other REAL men doing the same.

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by Zoso
Hell yeah Zedro. I thought my friend Russ and I were the only riders in existence who ran Michi comp32 2.8 front AND rear. Good to see there are some other REAL men doing the same.

heh, well.....i'm switching the rear out for a Comp16 2.5 soon....maybe the front as well....:

 

[HTFR]

Originally posted by zedro
heh, well.....i'm switching the rear out for a Comp16 2.5 soon....maybe the front as well....:

burn!:devil: