[Toshi]

Here's the scoop:

I've been checked out from the bike scene for many years. I don't know half the names of the component lines these days (SLX? WTF? there wasn't any such thing back in the day). I don't have any bikes at this point, in fact. Also keep in mind that I'm short: 173 cm / 5' 8" with a ~30" inseam and a slightly longer reach/wingspan, for what that's worth.

This bike would be for general trail riding. Long Island doesn't have much other than dinky little trails, from what I've seen, and my days of jumping off of stuff are probably over, what with being more "responsible" now that I'm a married professional not to mention a somewhat bum shoulder. If I make it back out west in a few years then I'd pick up something beefier but for now a simple hardtail would do.

On that topic, my riding history includes all disciplines, basically, and I've bounced through more than my share of bikes over the years. I'm not a gear snob, however, and want to get something cheap, as in $1000 if possible.

I'm posting this thread in the 29er forum since 29" wheels are one of the things that I can see have visibly changed in the landscape since I last was into the scene. If I constrain myself to 29" wheels (bad idea given my height? I do like the concept…) then what other things should I be looking out for?

- 29er in general? Yea/nay?
- Integrated headset? Makes a difference or showpiece?
- External bearing bottom bracket? Any impact on real life usage?
- 7" disc up front is the way to go, no?
- UST/tubeless? Good/bad/not necessary/critical?

Once again I want to do this on the cheap, circa $1000, so no suggesting high-zoot rigs. I've had my Chris King and XTR caviar and don't need anything of the sort. What bikes might the RM audience suggest given the above?

One that caught my eye at first glance is the 2010 Kona Kahuna, which is a $999 29er that should fit me in 16" (likely) or 18" (unlikely) guise, has an 80mm RockShox Dart 3 (of which I know zilch), has Deore/SLX parts, 7"/6" hydro Shimano discs, and has the integrated headset/external bearing BB buzzwords covered.

 

[dirtygirlmagnet]

To answer some of your questions about current technology:

29er, y or n; There are 29ers that will fit you, test ride as many as you can though, you're on the difficult end of the size scale for these bikes.

headsets; Integrated headsets get the front of the frame lower to the ground, in an attempt to lower the top tube and bars. It's thought of as more of a looks gimmick, but has this advantage. Having a properly reamed/faced headtube is much more important with these, than standard headsets. Many 29ers out there will have these, so don't worry about it, just ride it.

External bb; these are easy to install and service, lighter and a little more universal as far as parts go. Supposedly stiffer, giving you a better power transfer. Cons; frame prep again is very important with these. Even a properly prepped frame may not allow the bearings to align perfectly, causing for some premature wear, and excessive drag. However, all high end cranks are this design now. I'm not sure of anyone still doing ISIS or Square Taper in anything above a Deore level Crank. So for this one, just go with whatever is on the bike you choose. There are still a plethora of extra parts, bb's, etc. available for all types of cranks, in all quality levels, so this shouldn't hold you back.

7" disc: Bigger is better right? We all know larger rotors give you more stopping power, that's the whole idea here. Don't worry about clipping it on rocks since it's larger, since your axle is now 1.5" higher off the trail. And the weight gain of a 7" rotor + adapter at this level of the game is negligible.

tubeless: I'm going to say that this will depend a lot on your trails you ride. But is most of the time not necessary. These are designed to allow you to run a lower pressure without the risk of a flat, pinch or otherwise. Not originally designed to reduce weight, but they're working on it. Kind of a hassle to learn all the tricks of getting these to work properly, and then dealing with them on the trail if something happens, but most users who have had them for awhile don't find them any harder to use than standard tires and tubes. Tubeless is more expensive, so you may not have this option on bikes in your range.

my opinions:
Don't go tubeless, it'll cost more for some small gains.
Look for quality brakes on the bike, not cheap hydros with bigger rotors. They may feel nice on the showroom floor, but that doesn't mean jack for real world use. Get a brake with a solid background and reputation. Ask if your shop always has pads for them too.
As for the crank/headset thing, don't let this be your final deal breaker. Since you probably know how to work on an ISIS and a ST crank, they wont be any harder to use than external. The bike will ride nicer if they put more money into other parts of the bike like the fork, chain, cassette, etc.
Most importantly, go for the 29er. They've come a long way over the past decade, and are a lot of fun to ride, but you should be trying many out before you nail one down. Ask about demo programs, the parking lot test isn't always enough. Just remember that the layout of the cockpit should feel no different than a 26" hardtail, the bike itself will simply ride differently, causing you to handle it differently.

Sorry for the long post, time to go ride.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Redline has a29'er with disk brakes that was in the 900 range a couple years ago. Its a rigid single speed however. I was very close to buying one a year or two ago but I had some other expenses crop up. If you want to keep it under a grand with gears and or/fork I'm guessing your gonna have to go with a used bike. That said I love my RIP 9, I don't think I'll ever go back to a 26 wheel. IMHO tubless is a gimmick and more hassle than its worth. I suppose it might depend on your particular terrain but I would never do that here in sharp rock Colorado Territory. I have Formula brakes with 6 inch rotors front and back and its got plenty of "whoa" for the X-country/technical riding I do including some serios long stretches of downhill X-country stuff. If I was doing serious DH stuff I would look into a bigger rotor but it sounds like you shouldn't need one.
I run a King external bottom bracket and headseat. Zero issues. In fact, I read some time ago on the Chris King website an article that totally made me steer clear of integrated headsets. Of course Chris King is trying to sell head sets so read it with a grain of salt, but it reaffirmed what I already suspected.

Good luck!

 

[MMcG]

Whatever you do - don't get a 29er that comes with a RockShox Dart fork.

 

[Toshi]

Whatever you do - don't get a 29er that comes with a RockShox Dart fork.

How come? Noodly? Blows up? That Kona Kahuna I mentioned in the OP has a Dart on it but its spec looks good otherwise, I think.

I found and then went to my LBS for the first time since moving here. They were nice, and talking to them for about 45 minutes was actually very helpful. The female co-owner is about 5' 1" and rides a tiny Rocky Mountain 29er amongst other rides, and the male co-owner is 5' 5" and has a sweet, custom Titus titanium 29er frame with a Fox up front and high-zoot parts everywhere you look.

It was heartening to see that people shorter than me like their 29ers, and I actually was offered and took a spin around the neighborhood on the Titus! It's clearly much more than I want to spend but it was a good mini-test of sorts in that the front end didn't feel too weird or floppy while doing figure 8s in a parking lot nearby. Keep in mind that many of my old bikes had long forks on them anyway so I'm used to odd geometry, and the Titus felt quite normal in comparison.

 

[Toshi]

Ok, here's an $1099 29er that doesn't have a RockShox Dart fork:

2010 Gary Fisher Cobia. http://www.fisherbikes.com/bike/model/cobia

Comes in 15.5" and 17.5" flavors, so I'd probably be going with the 15.5". RockShox Tora SL fork with 80mm up front (better?). Deore/X.5 componentry, no external bearing BB and a "semi-integrated" headset, for what that's worth. I'm not sure if its spec of Avid BB5 mechanical discs is worse or better than the Shimano hydraulic discs on the Kona.

Would the fork really make that big of a difference? I like the look of the Kona better--the GF seems too XC racerboi-ish with its graphics, stock 2.0" tires, and general gestalt.

 

[dirtygirlmagnet]

the cobia is a pretty solid bike. We sell a fair amount of them around here, and they take a hell of a beating. The brakes are probably lower as far as power goes than the shimano low end hyrdos, but they are easily serviced, and fairly reliable.

and yes the fork will make a large difference. The Tora is an air fork, allowing you to actually adjust the preload. The Dart has knobs too small for human fingers that don't do anything anyways.

for 2010, the cobia does have some smaller tires, so if you can find an 09 in your size you will get the nicer xdx 29X2.2 skins. I never really care about a few parts on brand new bikes. Seat, grips, and tires. because they will all be changed before I ride it anyways.

 

[MikeD]

Don't discount rigid with the 29" either. The wheels roll over stuff nicely. (Not that a rigid 26" is super-hard to ride or anything, but I digress...)

And as someone who's been a little out of biking myself, I have to say singlespeed has made my return to the fold really, really fun. I climb at least 500' at the beginning of every ride, and usually quite a lot more, and it's not that freakin' hard. And on the rigid, I'm never feeling like I'm not going fast enough on a descent, so pedaling out is a non-issue. But most of all, it's super-simple, and you can forget about bike maintenance other than lubing your chain (unless you go belt drive...) and checking your tires, or seriously periodic stuff like packing bearings and occasionally checking your spoke tension.

It's dead simple on a rigid singlespeed. Get on bike, pedal, smile, have fun, grimace on a few climbs, feel like a kid again, come home, put bike away. Repeat. It's not as fast or capable in many ways as that full-susser with CK hubs you probably used to have, but it's been every bit as fun and well-suited to a lifestyle that isn't bike-centric. All your time devoted to biking is spent on the bike, not messing with or worrying about anything.

The only disadvantage I've found in my case is that the gearing I like for the ups and downs of the mountains is too low to move efficiently on a flat road. But I guess if it's that important, I can start running a dinglespeed (Two parallel singlespeed chainlines with identical chain length, shifted by hand depending on conditions) or a Schlumpf (internally geared BB, shifted with the foot).


Oddly, singlespeeding is at once for a certain strain of hardcore biker and a certain strain of casual biker. It's not better or worthy proselytizing about, but fits for some riders in some situations, and is worth a friendly mention to consider it.

And a Redline Monocog or whatever is super-cheap, to boot.

 

[MMcG]

Look into the Redline Monocog Flight. - you could always ad a used fork on later.

 

[Toshi]

I like my gears, and don't mind a little bit of maintenance. If I still had my other bikes then I'd consider a rigid, single speed 29er. I think a hardtail with a triple will be flexible and not really limit me, crap parts and all.

 

[MMcG]

Toshi - where do you live now?

Feel free to PM me - maybe I can provide some good leads for you.

Mark

 

[Toshi]

Update:

I'm the high bidder with 4 hours and change left on a 2008 Specialized Rockhopper 29er. 15" frame so it should definitely fit me if not be an inch small. My max bid is $420 and it's at $405 + $80 shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150405801824&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT#ht_760wt_917

I realize that it's even more of a crap bike than that Kona above, but it'd do the job. If I get outbid then I'm going to look into building something up on the cheap, and if I can't stick to ~$1000 and beat the Kona's specs then I'll order a Kahuna 29er sooner or later.

 

[Toshi]

I realize that it's even more of a crap bike than that Kona above, but it'd do the job. If I get outbid then I'm going to look into building something up on the cheap, and if I can't stick to ~$1000 and beat the Kona's specs then I'll order a Kahuna 29er sooner or later.

I didn't win the auction, and my quick and dirty spec list shows that I can't compete with Kona's OEM pricing, even electing for used parts here and there. Looks like steel stanchions will be in my future, which might be good given my cracked Z2 BAM stanchions from back in the day…

 

[henrymiller]

What about the Dawes DeadEye:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/dawes/deadeye.htm

For the price you could make loads of upgrades.

 

[Westy]

Toshi, what are the trails like in your area? 29er geometry has come a long way in the past few years but for me on really tight trails the increased inertia of 29er wheels (especially those on a $1000 bike) are a real pain in the ass. If your trails tend to have more of the sweeping or few and far between tight corners a 29er would kick ass.

 

[Toshi]

The trails are typical east coast fare, roots, ruts, etc. I have only sampled one local park but the turns were not overly tight.

I didn't feel that the shop owner's beautiful Titus 29er handled too oddly at low speeds aside from his intentional choice of a high front end height, so I think I'd like to go with a 29er for the perception that bike technology has advanced in the years that I have been "away" if nothing else.

 

[Toshi]

What about the Dawes DeadEye:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/dawes/deadeye.htm

For the price you could make loads of upgrades.

Anyone actually dealt with Bikes Direct? Their prices are pretty phenomenal actually...

Bikes Direct: Motobecane Fantom 29 Pro SL.

$1000, shipping included, with the caveat that "some assembly is required," which I'm sure I can handle. For that sum one gets a generic Taiwanese aluminum frame (that comes in a 15" model ), Deore/XT/XTR mixed drivetrain, a Rock Shox Reba SL fork with aluminum stanchions , 185 mm hydraulic Avid discs, and a 31.8 mm control layout up front.

I don't like the look of the $300-500 single speed 29ers from Bikes Direct or otherwise, and when up into the $600-800 range for a nice single speed 29er then I figure why not round up to $1000 and get something with 27 speeds and a fork.

 

[Toshi]

More thoughts (I still haven't bought a bike! been short on time and cash):

'09 Jamis Durango 29er on closeout from JensonUSA.

$605 + 40 more for shipping. Comes in 16", perfect for me in a 29er. Kinesis 7005 triple-butted frame. Deore 9 spd. Rock Shox Dart 29er with 100mm and magnesium sliders (and probably steel stanchions since not mentioned! heh). Tektro 6" hydros.



Bikesdirect.com/Motobecane Fantom 29er.

$596 shipped. Comes in 15", also probably a good size. Generic aluminum frame. Deore/XT combo 9 spd. Rock Shox Dart3 with 80mm. Avid BB5 cable discs.




Steel sliders and all I'd still probably be happier with either + $400 in my pocket than with a $1000 bike.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Update:

I'm the high bidder with 4 hours and change left on a 2008 Specialized Rockhopper 29er. 15" frame so it should definitely fit me if not be an inch small. My max bid is $420 and it's at $405 + $80 shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150405801824&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT#ht_760wt_917

I realize that it's even more of a crap bike than that Kona above, but it'd do the job. If I get outbid then I'm going to look into building something up on the cheap, and if I can't stick to ~$1000 and beat the Kona's specs then I'll order a Kahuna 29er sooner or later.

If you are 5'8" that tiny 15.5" Stumpie is too small for ya..

She's barely 5'4" and rides a 15.5" Specialized..

 

[Toshi]

She might be longer of leg than me. My inseam is about 30". In any case I didn't win the bid and am still some ways away from actually buying something. All talk, no action I am

 

[Jeremy R]

She might be longer of leg than me. My inseam is about 30". In any case I didn't win the bid and am still some ways away from actually buying something. All talk, no action I am

It sounds like you cannot find exactly what you need.
You better go the custom route.

 

[Toshi]

heh

On the other hand, maybe that's not such a bad idea: if I got a frame with a 5-year lead time then I'd be able to afford it even if it came in a whole year ahead of schedule by some miracle, as I'll be an attending by then...

 

[MikeD]

30" isn't that short, man. I'm nearly six feet and have a 32" inseam. I know I've got shortish legs for my height, but still, 30" isn't freakish...

On second thought, maybe you need a Jones Spaceframe.

MD