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Continental Der Kaiser review, since I haven't seen much about em yet

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Grabbed a couple of the Der Kaisers about a month ago, have since run them into the ground (rear one is literally bald, as in it's hard to see where the knobs used to be). Up until now I've almost exclusively run Maxxis, mostly Minions DHFs in their various compounds (have owned countless 40a/42a and a few 60a), though recently I've also tried a few Schwalbes (Dirty Dan and Muddy Mary). Was pretty keen to check out the Der Kaisers since the "Black Chili" compound they use is supposed to be pretty cool, they claim extremely good grip as well as slow wear characteristics. RRP in Canada is $95cad, vs Maxxis 42a at $90cad - more or less the same.

First impression - the bead seats properly and easily (rims are Mavic 823s) when you install it, definitely easier than the Schwalbe beads to get to seat properly and probably equivalent or slightly easier than Maxxis. The compound feels super soft, but has a weird kind of texture, almost feels a tiny bit greasy to the touch. The tread pattern didn't seem particularly inspired one way or another except insofar as having similarities to a Highroller but with longer (lengthways around the tyre) centre knobs that turned out to be a lot more resistant to tearing off than Highrollers typically are. Don't recommend riding without goggles on if you have one of these as a front tyre, as the compound is so soft it picks up a LOT of gravel and whatnot and flicks it up in your face. The 2.5 Der Kaiser is bigger than a 2.5 Maxxis (mostly due to the fact that Maxxis tyres are undersized for their nominal size compared to all the other brands), maybe closer to a 2.7 Minion. I don't know what the weight is, nor do I really care, seems about the same as most other DH tyres as far as I can tell.

I put these tyres on (front and rear) a month ago, have probably logged about 20 days on them since then. The front one is pretty much done, the rear one is completely toast and has been for a few days now - I'm that guy who skids and puts braking bumps in trails, sorry! Grip-wise, they seem fairly equivalent to a Minion 40a in most situations, the notable exception being dusty rock faces where they scared me a couple of times, but in fairness dusty rocks are always fairly slippery. In the wet I thought they were reasonably good but when they did slide out, they seemed to do it a bit more suddenly and with a bit less feedback than Schwalbe/Maxxis stuff.

I did find them a little bit less predictable than a Minion on the rear in pretty well all situations; up until the point where the wear was quite significant, they tended to either grip or slide with relatively little slow/controllable slippage in between. However, this was just my impression and not a characteristic that I thought was extreme or even particularly significant. Some people might find the opposite on their own trails, it certainly wasn't a dealbreaker to me anyway. Actual outright grip was up there with pretty much anything else in most conditions. One guy I know who ran them for a while said he thought they were pretty slippery in the wet, but I didn't find em much if any worse than anything else.

Longevity of the tyres was good I thought, I am fortunate enough to be able to ride a lot and I go through tyres very quickly, but these have lasted me longer than anything else I've owned except 60a Minions. Given how soft the compound is, that's fairly impressive. They stayed looking brand new for a surprisingly long time but when they did begin to show their age they did it fairly suddenly - knobs went from still having well defined square edges to having big tears in them very quickly.

What was not so impressive was the flat resistance - despite having snakeskin sidewalls or whatever they call it, they definitely are not as bombproof as Maxxis sidewalls. I've had 3 or 4 rear flats in the past month (vs that many in 5 years with Maxxis), even though I always keep tyre pressures pretty high, and even had a front flat at high speed that caused a crash mid race-run (vs one front flat with Maxxis ever, that was caused BY a crash!). I get the impression from the feel of the tyre casing that the anti-pinch inserts or whatever don't go high enough up the sidewall of the tyre, but I'm not a tyre designer and I could be wrong on that.

The long and the short of it - outright grip is good in most situations, wear rate is very good given the grip/softness of the rubber, if the price is comparable to Maxxis then lifespan vs cost does makes them better value, but to me the one thing that's put me off buying them again is the fact that the flat protection seems pretty weak compared to Maxxis. It's a very good tyre, but not the perfect tyre. If you're looking for something to run ghetto tubeless or something then the Der Kaiser might be a good option to check out, but since I can't be arsed with that stuff anymore, I'm going to save myself some money on tubes and go back to Minions.
 

big cal

Monkey
Nov 18, 2001
177
0
Melbourne, Australia
Nice review Steve, nothin like a bit of reality in a write up...

So i guess the conclusion is you can't go past the Minion for a tire that you can put on and not have to think about, ie. it's gonna grip predictably in nearly all conditions and you only flat when you fark up.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
Can you comment on the lean angle you can get with that tire vs any of the Maxxis? Biggest thing I noticed about them is the tire profile and that the sideknobs seem to stick straight out.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Please tell us whatyou think of the Minion once you get back on it.
Wil you be trying a 2.7 Minion now?
UST Minion, tubeless normal, or tubed?
Thanks for the review.
What about the other tyres MM etc?
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
i have been riding der kaiser's for the last month or two as well.

i dig them overall, but the comments are pretty spot on. i have flatted more in the last 2 months that in 3 years on minions. cranked the PSI to 30 and check every day of riding, and *hopefully* that will solve it. i usually run dhf at 25-27, and rarely check until it is appartant the psi has dropped.

for some reason, i feel the der kaiser on the front drifts more than a dhf, but on the rear less so. kinda weird really. the der kaiser requires more lean to break free, but totally engages on the cornering knobs.

i am still getting used to the different lean on them so far, and the more i ride them, the more i like it. you just gotta get the bike nearly sideways (lke 45deg+) to 2 wheel drift into a corner, where the dhf is like a 30deg. this may have something to do with the ultra round profile the tire gets on a 28mm rim, would be interested in trying them on a wider 32 or so rim... try and square the profile a bit more.

the rubber has worn very well and is very sticky. overall really impressed. i ride 4 days a week dh, so i go through tires pretty quick too.

i have a pair of rainkings to try as well, stoked to give them a go once the der kaisers are done.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
they brake awesome. really do not skid out much at all.

the newbs that think a ton of rear brake is how to drift will not like this tire.

though it is harder to box out a corner.
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
Great review Socket, and well done riding 20 days in a month, you b@stard! ;)

Based on your description, I'm thinking maybe Black Chili for the AM bike then.

What are your thoughts on the Muddy Marys? I'm loving them for everything but hardpack and spike conditions.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,368
1,606
Warsaw :/
So the usual with contis - they flat much to offen like the rest of their tires. I will stick to my maxxis ust. Id be very interested to see companies stop bsing me about ust tires and start making one. All the new fancy complete dh wheels are ust compatable so why no new tires?
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,086
0
A, A
good review

I've been riding the rain kings all year and i love them. They suit all the conditions i ride in and the bigger volume tire seem to make my 721s last a bit longer than normal (seems that my mates working as guides in whistler have found the same). I found they lasted about twice as long as id get out of the maxxis tires id usually run. What i do like about them is the fact that they seem to work in nearly every condition from mud to dry hardpack so it saved me changing tires and bringing an arsenal of tires to a race. So while my mates where changing tires i could just keep riding. As for punctures ive got 3 since Feb and i run 22-24 psi thats riding about 3 days a week and 10 days in whistler. So don't think there any worse than maxxis although 2 out of the 3 punctures where on race runs which was a tad annoying
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
What are your thoughts on the Muddy Marys? I'm loving them for everything but hardpack and spike conditions.
I love my muddy mary's 2.5" variety, they provide great traction in most any conditions I have put them in, not one flat yet. I also have a set of minions (2.7 front (which is still smaller than the MM 2.5, and a 2.5 rear) but think I prefer the muddy mary's more
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,368
1,606
Warsaw :/
Not going to lie, I haven't ever noticed big differences in braking characteristics between almost any tyres. Just not something I'm sensitive to. So they seemed decent enough I suppose!
Thats what you get for riding dual dhfs for too long ;)

Good review though. Kinda count on them being realesed in ust as the rest of the conti line is. Though their guy at the Munich bike expo gave me a vague response at best (though the schwable guys knew even less).
 

quickneonrt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2003
1,611
0
Staten Island NY
now I have used the Kaiser up front and hated it in the super dry conditions we have been having at Diablo. The front would constantly unpredictably drift of even just wash out without warning. I have always used a HR in the rear and a minion DHF up front, always a great combo in everything except mud.
The Kaiser is very nice in rocky and tacky conditions but the dry moon dust i can't stand it.
I have switched to a Wicked Will up front for the past few weeks and so far I am loving it. Compareable to a DHF with a wider foot print. Just waiting to see how long it is going to last.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,012
1,704
Northern California
Thats what you get for riding dual dhfs for too long ;)

Good review though. Kinda count on them being realesed in ust as the rest of the conti line is. Though their guy at the Munich bike expo gave me a vague response at best (though the schwable guys knew even less).
Yeah, the only issue I have with dual DHFs is rear braking in steep hardpack/loose over hardpack conditions. A High Roller rear is marginally better, but doesn't last long. I'm going to try a DHR next.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
Yeah, the only issue I have with dual DHFs is rear braking in steep hardpack/loose over hardpack conditions. A High Roller rear is marginally better, but doesn't last long. I'm going to try a DHR next.
Rear braking of the DHR is the best I've found across those 3 Maxxis tires. Followed by the HighRollers then the DHF's last. A DHF with more of a "paddle" across the middle for braking would be perfect.
 

Uncle Cliffy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2008
4,490
42
Southern Oregon
Thanks for the review.

I've been riding a set for a couple weeks now on my 951. They're tubeless on 823's. For a non UST tire, they're the best I've tried. Easy to seat, and hold air great with a little Stans.

Currently, I'm riding dry decomposed granite trails and they work quite well. There's a lot of off camber trail I've been riding lately and the side lugs are doing they're job. My rear tire is wearing pretty quick though as it's like stopping on sand paper... I'm still trying to get a feel for how much I can lean them. Sweeping turns are held well unless you turn a little harder. They drift a bit in the duff trails, but don't feel any different to me than Minions in those conditions.

No flats or punctures in the time I've used them, and I ran one for a front tire most of last season without issues. Way better bead than a UST Minion. (worst bead design ever IMO.)

Here's the bike:

 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Thats what you get for riding dual dhfs for too long ;)

Good review though. Kinda count on them being realesed in ust as the rest of the conti line is. Though their guy at the Munich bike expo gave me a vague response at best (though the schwable guys knew even less).
hahah, I've had DHRs, Highrollers, Swamp Things, Muddy Marys, Comp24s and Dirty Dans on the back too, just never noticed a distinct difference because it's not something I pay that much attention to.
 

worship_mud

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2006
1,464
2
good review

I've been riding the rain kings all year and i love them. They suit all the conditions i ride in and the bigger volume tire seem to make my 721s last a bit longer than normal (seems that my mates working as guides in whistler have found the same). I found they lasted about twice as long as id get out of the maxxis tires id usually run. What i do like about them is the fact that they seem to work in nearly every condition from mud to dry hardpack so it saved me changing tires and bringing an arsenal of tires to a race. So while my mates where changing tires i could just keep riding. As for punctures ive got 3 since Feb and i run 22-24 psi thats riding about 3 days a week and 10 days in whistler. So don't think there any worse than maxxis although 2 out of the 3 punctures where on race runs which was a tad annoying
same here: i like the rainkings a lot. good in all conditions, exceeding in the wet. hard to believe how effortlessly they manage wet off-camber! no tire for apocalyptic mud (wetscreams!), but anything other than that and they shine! i had no problems in regard of punctures (i run them at 1,8 - 2,0 bar = 26 - 29 psi, depending on terrain) and they last rather long. perfect mixed weather / mixed terrain tire! only weak point seems the higher rolling resistence compared to the minion / highroller combo i ran before.
i recommend!
 

roel_koel

Monkey
Mar 26, 2003
278
1
London,England
Rear braking of the DHR is the best I've found across those 3 Maxxis tires

Minion DHR is really underated, since loads of riders switched to running DHF both front and rear

just watch out for heavy landings if running a DHR, tore the seat out of my pants in Winterberg bike park last summer, the DHR is a NASTY biting tire for sure ;)
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,368
1,606
Warsaw :/
hahah, I've had DHRs, Highrollers, Swamp Things, Muddy Marys, Comp24s and Dirty Dans on the back too, just never noticed a distinct difference because it's not something I pay that much attention to.
Strange. The differance is insane for me in case of DHFs. Any steeper track and the rear wheel goes sideways and I loose a lot of braking. I use only Hutchinson and Maxxis lately thanks to my UST fetish. Though I have to agree before I needed to brake more I did not feel the differance.

Im retesting dhrs right now after a 2 year gap since I last used them.
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Strange. The differance is insane for me in case of DHFs. Any steeper track and the rear wheel goes sideways and I loose a lot of braking. I use only Hutchinson and Maxxis lately thanks to my UST fetish. Though I have to agree before I needed to brake more I did not feel the differance.

Im retesting dhrs right now after a 2 year gap since I last used them.
Fair enough, I think a large part of the reason I don't notice so much difference in braking is that I tend to run rear tyres til they're completely flogged and bald as anything, so when I put new tyres on, I haven't got such a recent benchmark of "good braking" to compare to.

Back on a Minion DHF 3C front and Muddy Mary 2.35 Gooey Gluey rear today, was a bit wet though so hard to compare. First time I've ridden roots in the wet for a while, was struggling with those.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
^^^ bump ^^^

really stoked on these tires, after a hard summer on them.

a few things... need to run 28-30 psi to prevent pinchflats (with xc tubes), and check them if the bike sits a couple days.

the rubber grips supper well and lasts well. i ride 4 days a week, am heavy and brake hard. i got a month or so out of each rear tire before putting the front to the rear and a new front.

i would compare them super favorably with dhf/high roller.

they roll about as fast as the high roller, brake and drift alot like the DHF (expect you need to be a little more assertive than the dhf), are the size of a 2.7 maxxis, but the weight of a 2.5 ST.

really like them. just picked up a bunch more for this fall and next season.
 

Uncle Cliffy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2008
4,490
42
Southern Oregon
^^^ bump ^^^

really stoked on these tires, after a hard summer on them.

a few things... need to run 28-30 psi to prevent pinchflats (with xc tubes), and check them if the bike sits a couple days.

the rubber grips supper well and lasts well. i ride 4 days a week, am heavy and brake hard. i got a month or so out of each rear tire before putting the front to the rear and a new front.

i would compare them super favorably with dhf/high roller.

they roll about as fast as the high roller, brake and drift alot like the DHF (expect you need to be a little more assertive than the dhf), are the size of a 2.7 maxxis, but the weight of a 2.5 ST.

really like them. just picked up a bunch more for this fall and next season.
Agree. These tires rock on off camber/fresh trail. Fun to drift too.

One thing that surprised me is the rear tire has slowed it's wear considerably. It seemed like it would go bald on me quickly, but after the edge of the center lugs got tore a little, they just seem to maintain. Better wear than a 3c or ST from my experience.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
One thing that surprised me is the rear tire has slowed it's wear considerably. It seemed like it would go bald on me quickly, but after the edge of the center lugs got tore a little, they just seem to maintain.
agreed, i get 2-3 weeks out of ST, and at least 4 weeks out of these.