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Craftworks ENR

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by hmcleay, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    SPAM alert!

    I'm very pleased to introduce the RM community to the Craftworks ENR.
    This is the first production bike to feature the i-track suspension system.
    Craftworks expects to start shipping in April.
    Pricing & pre-order details available soon.

    s1200_Craftworks_ENR_Production_MU.jpg

    Quick details:
    6061-T6 Alloy Frame
    160mm travel (vertical), with 48mm rearward travel (note, our press release had a typo, stating 43mm, it's actually 48mm).
    66.5deg Head Angle
    75.2deg Seat Angle
    1150/1170mm Wheelbase (Medium/Large sizes)
    418mm Chainstays
    BB 10mm below axles (roughly equals 347mm BB off ground - depending on tyres)
    Threaded BB.
    Syntace X-12 axle system (non-BOOST 142x12)
    Ample room for full size drink bottle.

    More info at www.craftworkscycles.com

    Enjoy!
     
    #1 -   Mar 1, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
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  2. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    This thread needs more leverage curves, otherwise it won't escalate.
    What's the CS length @ sag?
     
    #2 -   Mar 1, 2016
  3. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

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    #3 -   Mar 1, 2016
  4. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    #4 -   Mar 1, 2016
  5. rpet

    rpet Turbo Monkey

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    #5 -   Mar 1, 2016
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  6. rpet

    rpet Turbo Monkey

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    Fuck NAHBS I want die roboter.
     
    #6 -   Mar 1, 2016
  7. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

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    Sweeeet.

    Will it come with Ridemonkey stickers preinstalled?
     
    #7 -   Mar 1, 2016
  8. Da Peach

    Da Peach Outwitted by a rodent

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    Neat bike. Typo in your website:

    "The new Craftworks ENR features the patented i-track suspension system to deliver kinematic characteristics that have notXXXXXavailable until now"
     
    #8 -   Mar 1, 2016
  9. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    haha. Yeah I'll post the leverage curves once that other thread settles down.
    Chainstay at sag is 445mm.

    Cheers for that; it's now updated.
     
    #9 -   Mar 2, 2016
  10. kickstand

    kickstand Turbo Monkey

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    Looks like a....
     
  11. TrumbullHucker

    TrumbullHucker trumbullruxer

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    zorro?
     
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  12. Sandwich

    Sandwich just shake your rump
    Staff Member

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    very interested in pricing. what size wheels are we playing with here? ubiquitous 27.5?
     
  13. Wuffles

    Wuffles Chimp

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    Mmmmfff....

    Is there any chance you'll be making a production version of the prototype you show? I have a thing about hydroformed tubes. Also, I can't deal with those filled in seat tube-top tube triangles. It's probably a mental disorder, but I just can't buy a bike with it. Would freaking love to get that prototype though...
     
  14. manhattanprjkt83

    manhattanprjkt83 Rusty Trombone

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  15. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    Moar pix? Looking forward to seeing more details!
     
  16. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    Escalate....now:
    ENR Leverage.PNG
     
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  17. LAP

    LAP Chimp

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    RFX, no?
     
  18. LAP

    LAP Chimp

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    What are you aiming in term of weight for a medium?
     
  19. kickstand

    kickstand Turbo Monkey

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  20. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    Looks like the one from my trail bike, Derpalized Pitch, which works just great with a Pushed RP2 and Corset
     
  21. Happymtb.fr

    Happymtb.fr Monkey

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  22. Vrock

    Vrock Linkage Design Blog

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    Looks really nice, but be careful with that shock, it's not designed for bikes with too much travel.
     
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  23. no skid marks

    no skid marks Monkey

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    Can't wait to ride one. Well done both I-Tracks and Craftworks.
     
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  24. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    OK, quick q: why so regressive in the last 1/3 of travel? Coil shocks a no-no for this frame?
     
  25. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    Just realised the big difference in numbers, this is really curvy. A coil will have hard times in that frame or the rider at mid travel.
     
  26. weedkilla

    weedkilla Monkey

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    Congratulations Hugh.
     
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  27. MmmBones

    MmmBones Monkey

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    I think I read somewhere that it's designed for air shox but it would probably work fine with a DHX
     
  28. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    It's pretty close to that analysis. I didn't give Tony the pivot locations though, so he must have done it based on the photo, so there would some error associated with that. Exact P3 data is on the i-track website.

    Yes, the leverage curve (progressive-linear-digressive) is designed to complement a typical air spring curve (digressive-linear-progressive).
    In particular, the idea behind the very high initial LR is to reduce the initial wheel force that would otherwise occur with a more linear linkage (or god-forbid, an 'undrideable' digressive linkage).
    I haven't tried it with a coil shock, and can't really see any reason why I'd want to (apart from curiosity).
     
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  29. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    @hmcleay
    A question for you (though not directly related to this bike) - do you have a reasonably good working knowledge on the current patents that apply to (and potentially restrict) a rear suspension design?

    For example - I'm not sure which particular elements the dw-link patent covers - since other bikes use the same rear triangle and twin links (in same rotation direction), and other bikes also implement falling AS curves beyond sag point.

    Obviously your bike does both of these things but adds the extra rearward travel and the linkage mounted idler - but I'm curious how one decides whether they are or aren't infringing on an existing patent. Banshee for example is so close in both function and packaging/layout to dw-link that I don't understand how no infringement occurs, unless it's a case of "small enough company = turn a blind eye" which I suspect is the case.

    I don't want to jack the thread but it's something I've been curious about. I know you reference other patents on your site, but I'm curious if this means "sub-royalties" need to be paid, or if you had to negotiate some kind of "fair-use" deal beforehand.

    Obviously your design adds something beyond what existed before (which I think is very cool) but I've been wondering if that negates the need to license the previous designs for the shared components.
     
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  30. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    Hey @Udi,

    The DW-Link portfolio is covered by three patents, with claims (extremely condensed version) as follows:
    US7048292: Anti-squat is higher in the beginning of travel, and lesser thereafter.
    US7128329: Instant Centre is beyond pivots of lower link at 0% travel, and in between pivots of lower link towards full travel.
    US7828314: Anti-squat curve has negative slope at the beginning and end of travel, and less negative in the middle.
    These are the US patents, but there are equivalent ones in other jurisdictions.

    Shoot me an email at hugh [at] i-tracksuspension.com and I can elaborate further for you.
     
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  31. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    Not afraid the lengthening of the CS will make the bike sluggish? It's less of a problem on dh bikes but on endurpoo bikes that have to ride tighter tracks I wonder if it's not a downside. 445mm at sag means it's longer than most competition if I remember right.
     
  32. Happymtb.fr

    Happymtb.fr Monkey

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    What about the chain jumping from the idler pulley? Is it for real or just a bad excuse from Zerode to go away from a high pivot location?
     
  33. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    Sorry for the slow response; I missed this one.
    No, there won't be a production of the black prototype. Both this proto and the production version use hydroformed downtubes, it's just the production one is a bit more boxy and straighter (and looks way better IMO).
    Also, the filled in ST/TT gusset looks way better than the open one... you must have a mental disorder! But there is also an engineering reason for this.
    There are only two of the black prototypes in existence. It's unlikely (but not impossible) that they'd ever turn up in the 2nd hand market.

    Yes, 445 CS at sag is longish.
    From 0% to 30% travel, this bike has about 20mm more CS growth than a 'convential' drivetrain bike.
    This would make it roughly equivalent to a 'conventional' drivetrain bike with a 0% chainstay measurement of 438mm.
    I don't have any troubles doing wheelies or manuals on this bike, so I don't really notice it. I think also having excellent pedalling performance helps to mask the longer chainstays.

    Cheers,
    Hugh.
     
  34. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    Manuals is not an issue since people manual on dh bikes. That's not what I was mentioning. Enduro racing tracks as well as regular tracks people ride their trailbike tend to have quite a few more tight turns vs dh tracks. That's where a long CS might be a problem. The Megaaavalanche track is a real pain to ride on a dh bike in some spots. Same for Mountain of hell. That's why I wondered why you didn't go 10mm shorter.
     
  35. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    Pricing is now listed on the Craftworks website:
    Frame & Shock = $2499 AUD
    Complete GX1 Build = $4800 AUD

    Bargain!
    Ordering available soon.
     
  36. Sandwich

    Sandwich just shake your rump
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    US distro?
     
  37. Electric_City

    Electric_City The orangutans are loose!

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    So like, I'm ripping this enduro to shit bro! But then there's this 7'-2" radius switchback... My bikes sag must have been at like 56%, cause like, my chainstays must have been maxed out! I like totally failed cause of that. I could have been first... Only if my stays were precisely 10mm shorter...

    Not every bike is perfect for everyone.
     
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  38. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    We'll be selling direct to consumer initially.
     
  39. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    So we should not have a discussion or is this another answer of "I'm to cool to talk about technicalities" ?

    I'm curious since bikes with a high rearward component in susp are hard to balance geometry wise and most companies fail when they try to do it.
     
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  40. Sandwich

    Sandwich just shake your rump
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    norbar, my guess is that due to physical limitations, chainstays couldn't be much shorter. 419mm at top out is really incredibly short, I would even argue too short for good stability at speed, especially the speed these goons are getting up to on the enderpo circuit.

    Hugh's own suspension concept doesn't really correlate to short chainstays at sag because of his theories with axle path. Personally, I don't think 445mm is that bad at sag, and in fact I'd wager any bike with high anti-squat is going to sit around that area at sag. For local trails and lower speeds, then yeah, I'd rather have shorter stays but I'd also probably rather go with a much simpler suspension system. This looks to me like it would work wonderfully on a purpose built bike for enduro or DH racing, but for XCing? maybe not.