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Craftworks ENR

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by hmcleay, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. Electric_City

    Electric_City The orangutans are loose!

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    Feel free to have these discussions. That's what a forum is for. I'm just saying that not every bike is perfect for you, or perfect for me. But this bike might be perfect for Tom, Dick and Harry. Imagine every bike out there having the shortest stays imaginable, that 64.31* hta 6" of travel and the same reach. What would make that bike different/stand out that would send you running to the shop to buy it?

    Like I said, not every bike is perfect for everyone. My bike company that I can't measure the amount of hate I have for, is Giant. Oil and water. But others SWEAR they're the best bikes in the world.

    To each their own.
     

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  2. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    I understand the limitations. I'm simply curious since finding a good balance between too short as you claim and too long is a big problem with rearward bikes. it's an even bigger problem when you increase the wheel size.

    I agree the bike seems like it's more suited towards full blown enduro racing vs having fun on less agressive trails where a bike that gives you a bigger sense of speed and is more agile could be more fun. I simply see Enduro as a really broad cathegory while in reality we have 2 types of customers and bikes here. People who want to feel fast but don't ride super fast tracks, and enduro racers that basically want a pedallable downhill bike (or a freeride bike like we called them in 2001 when everone rode Mongoose NX series bikes)
     
  3. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    I only buy bikes that look good on the roof of my car.
     
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  4. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    OK people.
    The Craftworks ENR is now available!
    Visit www.craftworkscycles.com to check out the web store.

    Don't forget, we have 10% GST in Australia, which is included in the advertised price.
    So if you're buying from outside of Australia, you can knock 9.0909% off the price!! (but don't forget you may have to pay duties/taxes when importing into your country).

    Free shipping within Australia. Hit me up for shipping prices to overseas.

    Cheers,
    Hugh.
     
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  5. Sandwich

    Sandwich just shake your rump
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    congrats on the launch!
     
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  6. Sandwich

    Sandwich just shake your rump
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    What's shipping to the us? Frame only should save customs cost and that's only 1700usd! Pretty good deal
     
  7. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    Good numbers and fair play on the price tag! Me like a lot. Any plans on a European distro?
     
  8. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    No European distribution at the moment; we'll look into it if we get a significant number of sales there.
    Shipment of a frame to Europe would be around 200 Euros, so taking that into account, I think it should still be competitive with other options.
     
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  9. slimshady

    slimshady Turbo Monkey

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    So @Vrock has posted his analisis of @hmcleay 's excellent creation. He seems pretty impressed with it, even when using a non-trustable, error-prone piece of software to base his conclusions on :rofl:.

    Now seriously: Holy rearward axle path & AS numbers Batman! If I wasn't a third-world slave, I'd be totally considering buying one. Kudos Hugh!
     
  10. Vrock

    Vrock Linkage Design Blog

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    Hugh helped to develop the Software and he also send the me the Blueprints, so he's problably OK with the results XD. And I want to add that the P3 prototype got the best results in the WM Climb Benchmark, the Best of 23 models with a good lead from the second...
     
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  11. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    What is the WM climb benchmark?
     
  12. Vrock

    Vrock Linkage Design Blog

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    I test a bunch of models with the Working Model Program, using the same conditions and the same terrain and measure who climbs faster...

     
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  13. Sandwich

    Sandwich just shake your rump
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    I dig the results.

    Can anyone help me understand the gradient curve charts a little better? I'm good with anti squat and I believe the force charts as well, but the gradient part confuses me.

    Also, what effect will negative pedal kickback have on the bike? Will it just go into the freewheel?
     
  14. Vrock

    Vrock Linkage Design Blog

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    Negative PK on the long gears means there is a bit more of chain slap on the DH, but other than that the bike is going to work fine. Gradient curves depends a lot on how you model the air shock, so you have to take them with a grain of salt. The first part is always a "cliff", but the important part is the middle and the last part of the travel. Assuming that my model is correct, you can see that the gradient is almost constant, that means the bike feels like it has a coil shock instead of a air one...
     
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  15. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    Now anyone can just go and make and sell their own though.
     
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  16. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    The only bummer of the bike is its limited compatibility with droppers. I can't go back to a 380mm Reverb which seems to be my only option for my short crooked legs.
     
  17. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    The Gradient curve tells us how the Wheel Force is changing at any instant, it's also referred to as 'Wheel Rate'.
    Mathematically, it's the 'first derivative' of the Wheel Force curve.
    Visually, it's the steepness of the slope of the Wheel Force curve.

    Humans are very sensitive to the way a force changes, much more than the actual value of the force itself. So the Gradient curve gives a clearer indication of what you might feel. This info is still visible on the force curve (by looking at its slope), but visually less obvious.


    You might have noticed that the ENR has a higher initial LR than the other bikes on that graph (which should yield a lower initial Wheel Rate), yet the Gradient curve starts with a higher value.
    I believe @Vrock uses dimensions from Fox shocks to model the spring curves. So the difference in the initial value of the Gradient curve would be because the other bikes in this comparison probably use a longer 215x63 shock (vs the ENR's 200x57) which supposedly has a larger -ve chamber volume than a 200x57 shock. This affects the value of the initial Wheel Rate.
    Unfortunately, shock manufacturer's aren't forthcoming with providing actual spring curves, and I don't have a dyno (or other spring force testing rig - yet), so I'm unable to comment on how the Cane Creek DB Inline spring curve compares with Vrock's model.

    Also, the regressive nature of the LR curve after 100mm travel is a bit more pronounced than I wanted, but it's not easy to optimise everything together. I figured that this portion of the Force curve can be altered quite easily using volume reducers in the shock.
    I'm not running any volume reducers at the moment, and am not bottoming out very often, but that's predominantly a reflection of my speed/strength (or lack thereof).
    Faster/stronger riders can install more reducers for more support.

    Cheers,
    Hugh.
     
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  18. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    Sorry to hear that the seat post insertion doesn't suit your needs.
    I assume you've found the Reverb compatibility chart on the Craftworks website? (it's down below the FAQs).

    Does this mean you using a 420mm long post with 150mm drop at the moment?
     
    #58 -   Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  19. wiscodh

    wiscodh Monkey

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    Graphic design contest in the works?
     
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  20. Sandwich

    Sandwich just shake your rump
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    Ok, so is the red line in this chart indicative of the spring curve of the air shock for each frame? And then the blue curve is the resultant force curve for the combination? This is my confusion.

     
  21. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    The red curve is the 1st derivation of the blue curve, no?
     
  22. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    First y axis is just straight F/x. And yes, the gradient dF/dx

    It's just the change in slope.

    And going by the looks of those curves, yes, those are all air shocks.
     
  23. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    calculus? on RM? da fuq?
     
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  24. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    I have a fox transfer that is like 150/470mm tall. But that is a detail, I have to confess I am strangely attracted to the bike. How does it ride in tight uber-technical old school chunk and roots trails, both up and down?
     
  25. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    My view on this is biased, but of course it LOVES smashing through the rough stuff!
    When I started thinking about designing bikes with rearward axle paths, it was with the downhill performance in mind. So it quite a nice surprise to find that there was also a significant improvement when climbing up rough rocky surfaces.
    The only time things get a little bit awkward is when trying to come to a complete stop (or go very slowly - e.g. walking pace) down steep 'steppy' terrain. The rearward axle path can mean that the rear wheel locks up on a step, and the bike and rider keep going for a bit before they also stop. Bottom line: It's not a great trials bike, but it's pretty good at everything else!

    Hopefully there'll be some ride reviews surfacing in the near future.
     
    #65 -   Aug 7, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
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  26. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    Seems very similar to the DW AS curve, except about 30-40% higher (than ~100%).

    How does this affect bump absorption? What's the benefit of around 140% AS throughout most of the travel?
     
    #66 -   Aug 7, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
  27. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    Looks like there's a separate thread to handle these sorts of questions.
     
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  28. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    If you can get hold of it, grab a copy of the latest Mountain Biking Australia magazine, on shelves now.
    It's got a review of the Craftworks ENR; here's a snippet:

    "The ENR builds and maintains downhill speed like no other bike I've ever ridden. In fact I don't think you can appreciate just how much your current bike is making you work for speed until you've ridden the ENR"

    IMG_6279s.JPG
     
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  29. Sandwich

    Sandwich just shake your rump
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    Don't have access to that mag over here, but I'd love to read the review. And own the bike.
     
  30. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    I would really like to read it. Too bad I crashed my ipad since they seem to be available in the apple store.

    Hugh - any chance Craftworks will have some Euro presence?
     
  31. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    kraftwerk is european ;)
     
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  32. slimshady

    slimshady Turbo Monkey

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  33. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    You don't have to tell me. My mother married a guy called Wolfgang 10 years ago. He is a german and he obviously loves kraftwerk.
     
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  34. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    i named one of my new cats wolfgang.

    i wasn't allowed to name my son wolfgang :(
     
  35. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    I really wanted them to name my little half sister Frauke but they said no :(
     
  36. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

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    one day i will have a dog named thor...thor, dog of thunder
     
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  37. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    All the ENRs from the first run are in Australia now, so it's a bit difficult/expensive to set up distribution in EU. For the next production run, we'll most like set up some a distribution channel.
    In the mean time, I'm happy to look at shipping costs for any EU customers (or anywhere in the world for that matter). Just shoot me a PM if interested.

    Cheers,
    Hugh.
     
  38. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    I'm still a year from buying a new bike after buying a flat (having a fiance is damn expensive) but it's good to know you ship worldwide if my financial situation changes faster than I anticipate.

    btw. Any new models planned or are you waiting for the industry to decide which wheelsize makes sense?
     
  39. hmcleay

    hmcleay i-track suspension

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    Any Kiwis on here that have access to New Zealand MTBiker mag?

    Here's what they thought of the Craftworks ENR after shredding 1800km in six months:
    “…the best technical climber we’ve ridden”
    “…the back end was extremely adept at plowing through the ugliest terrain”
    “…straight up one of the best trail bikes we’ve ridden”

    Check out the whopping six page review to read the rest!

    IMG_6435s.JPG
     

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  40. Kurt_80

    Kurt_80 Chimp

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    Congrats man, that is an excellent result!
     
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