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Crank Brothes does an AMA on Pinkbike. Guess what happens?

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
Pure gold:

Which product are you most ashamed of?
1.Kronolog
2.Joplin
3.Joplin 2
4.Joplin 3
5.All the directsets
6.50/50 pedals
7.Hubs on all the wheels
8.Spokes on all the wheels
9.Telling people who you work for
I haven't read far, but I'm surprised no one has talked about the cranks yet...lol
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
That has got to be the dumbest id of the year.
And its still early...
To be honest kudos for trying as I assume they expected that. From what they said the old owners had to stay in the company till last year as per contract so maybe the change will work as they acknowledged the old staff didn't listen to complaints by the engineers and were not concentrating on what their staff was saying enough.

On an unrelated topic one of the guys who started the CB company now works as intense CEO. Why am I not surprised?
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
That is a bit scary (Intense CEO)- I give those guys credit for facing this head-on, but why not start from scratch? Maybe they determined that there is enough of a dentite fan base that is still worth something.
On another note, I had no idea about the cranks, but I'm not suprised:
http://www.mtbr.com/cat/drivetrain/crankset/crank-brothers/cobalt-sl/prd_412782_115crx.aspx
Remember they were bought by a road company, 5+ years ago. That means that not only their opinion was better back then (a bit shit but still way better than now) but also the roadies might not have known much outside of the fact that their shiny parts sold well. Also they thought they will buy a company aiming their products at the same customer - the dentist.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
I can't believe they're even trying to hang onto the CB name. By this point, it's synonymous with "crap". If they really wanted to develop a fresh properly engineered product line with different people, seems prudent to do it under a different name and get away from the CB public image.

A quick skim of the comments in that link should say it all. 95%+ dissatisfaction from the active mtb community. How could they possibly turn that around? Even if they made products from this point forward that were on-par or in excess of the quality of what everyone else makes, they'd still be in salvage mode permanently.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I can't believe they're even trying to hang onto the CB name. By this point, it's synonymous with "crap". If they really wanted to develop a fresh properly engineered product line with different people, seems prudent to do it under a different name and get away from the CB public image.

A quick skim of the comments in that link should say it all. 95%+ dissatisfaction from the active mtb community. How could they possibly turn that around? Even if they made products from this point forward that were on-par or in excess of the quality of what everyone else makes, they'd still be in salvage mode permanently.
Sram still sells their products ;)
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
Sram still sells their products ;)
I think SRAM overall has a WAY higher success rate than CB does. Probably lower than other companies, but I'd imagine CB is in their own league of dissatisfied customer rate.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
To be honest kudos for trying as I assume they expected that. From what they said the old owners had to stay in the company till last year as per contract so maybe the change will work as they acknowledged the old staff didn't listen to complaints by the engineers and were not concentrating on what their staff was saying enough.

On an unrelated topic one of the guys who started the CB company now works as intense CEO. Why am I not surprised?

See, this is what I just don't understand. Why go down with a sinking ship? Why not rename the company, "Reliable Components" or something other than "Crank Brothers". It's like the guys that bought out Ellsworth. For the love of god, name it something other than the name that is associated with crap and hate for how the old company (mainly Tony) conducted business. All this is fine, but if you buy the company, keep the same name, IMO you are saying that you are fully responsible for all the past wrongs, because you want people to associate the old with the new. The US regional airlines knew this pretty well, crash a plane, kill a bunch of people, re-name the airline it so people think it's different and forget that the past shit actually happened. It works for the most part, because we are so distracted by whatever the new hub standard is or what not. I know they want to pay homage to the past, but you gotta move past that if you are to come up with some actual good shit.

My take on CB was that they always had a "hook" to sucker you in, like lighter weight than any comparable product, but being woefully under-designed in many areas, it would just render said item "disposable". To overcome this is huge IMO. After you make your products reliable and strong, all you have left is fancy anodized colors, which didn't even work for Race Face in the long run, as even they had to move to Crab-On.
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
I can't believe they're even trying to hang onto the CB name. By this point, it's synonymous with "crap". If they really wanted to develop a fresh properly engineered product line with different people, seems prudent to do it under a different name and get away from the CB public image.
Exactly this.

Rename it LCS components (lightweight, cheap or strong).
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I think SRAM overall has a WAY higher success rate than CB does. Probably lower than other companies, but I'd imagine CB is in their own league of dissatisfied customer rate.
I think the problem was bad customer servie + not correcting their mistakes. Ffs no one remembers 2011 demo that got destroyed when you mounted a fox 40 on it, then got destroyed again because they designed their quickly designed bumpers badly, it also had hub fit issues, shock fit issues yet everyone claims demo is a perfect bike.

Not to mention no one remembers how much Intense sucked back in the day. So it's more than just bad products.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
448
I agree with Norbar, companies can have shit break, but if they take care of it, people are pretty forgiving. I think Evil pushed that theory to its limit, but looks like they're ok now.
I lost my receipt to a Joplin and they wouldn't fix it, and I've read plenty of horror stories that build a picture of a company with shit CS. I don't know how you recover from that, because you can't trust them when a product does shit the bed.
I think their little PB answer sesh was probably a necessity to get the story out about a new culture/investing in testing if they're going to stand a chance.
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
I think the problem was bad customer servie + not correcting their mistakes. Ffs no one remembers 2011 demo that got destroyed when you mounted a fox 40 on it, then got destroyed again because they designed their quickly designed bumpers badly, it also had hub fit issues, shock fit issues yet everyone claims demo is a perfect bike.

Not to mention no one remembers how much Intense sucked back in the day. So it's more than just bad products.
CB had great customer service throughout, they'd switch out the disposable components, it's just that everyone gets tired of having to mail components constantly.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
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CB had great customer service throughout...
Really? I have avoided their products since my experience, and only read bad things about the CS. But I guess who is going to rave about getting replacement shit parts 10x on the Internet?
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
CB had great customer service throughout, they'd switch out the disposable components, it's just that everyone gets tired of having to mail components constantly.
I think the problem that annoyed people is they as a company assumed their products were fince since they never fixed the errors that plagued them.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
On an unrelated topic one of the guys who started the CB company now works as intense CEO. Why am I not surprised?
And as soon as he got on board they outsourced production to the Far East. :thumbsdown: :banghead:

And I don't know what you are all complaining about. CB pedals are made for today's bike: they will only last until your bike is outdated, which is about 2 months.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
And as soon as he got on board they outsourced production to the Far East. :thumbsdown: :banghead:

And I don't know what you are all complaining about. CB pedals are made for today's bike: they will only last until your bike is outdated, which is about 2 months.
Alu frames from them are also welded in TW?

@Kevin I have a 2001 Ellsworth Joker that is still uncracked so we all can be exceptions to the rule
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,192
19,158
Canaderp
Not trying to defend CB, but I've had multiple Mallet pedal sets and have only broken one of them, after smashing it on a rock.

Can't say the same for my friends dropper post, which now works about as well as a normal seatpost.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
I like the people in the thread that are pissed off because they have scar tissue due to the shards of broken axles. I narrowly escaped that myself. Although they look like hell, these were only something like 2 months old.
Picture_095.jpg
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
I have never fucked up a set of pedals in so many ways, so quickly, as a set of CB Mallets. Ways I didn't even know a set of pedals could fail, all within 3 weeks.
 

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,114
55
Golden, CO
I have a set of original mallets that were raced/ ridden dh on for 5 seasons and still going strong (not to mention probably another six sets of CB pedals in the garage, none of which broke). And CB CS was always great to me. But I guess negativity is more fashionable.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
I have a set of original mallets that were raced/ ridden dh on for 5 seasons and still going strong (not to mention probably another six sets of CB pedals in the garage, none of which broke). And CB CS was always great to me. But I guess negativity is more fashionable.
It's true, having a positive attitude keeps their glued crank-arm halves from splitting. :pilot:
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,010
1,146
El Lay
Yes, the whole world is making it up.

I have a set of original mallets that were raced/ ridden dh on for 5 seasons and still going strong (not to mention probably another six sets of CB pedals in the garage, none of which broke). And CB CS was always great to me. But I guess negativity is more fashionable.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
448
I have a set of original mallets that were raced/ ridden dh on for 5 seasons and still going strong (not to mention probably another six sets of CB pedals in the garage, none of which broke). And CB CS was always great to me. But I guess negativity is more fashionable.
If it's fashionable to hate CB, then call me fuckin Eddie Bauer!
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
He hasn't ridden it since 2001, so no loss there.
Naah I ride it as a trailbike. I have the xc version where they drilled the frame in a different place to get less travel and called it a trailbike. I'm super cheap and I still get a polish wage so I can't invest in all 4 of my bikes so I decide to live dangerously and ride an Ellsworth. Though I wonder why didn't they change their company slogan to yolo.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Not trying to defend CB, but I've had multiple Mallet pedal sets and have only broken one of them, after smashing it on a rock.

Can't say the same for my friends dropper post, which now works about as well as a normal seatpost.
The worst part is the mallet is a decent pedal when it doesn't disintegrate. I remember the times where you choose between DX that always clogged in mud (old design), Times that desintegrated and CB's that desintegrated slightly slower than times. Fun fun fun.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,376
804
I also think the CB pedals are decent. They are not as reliable as Shimanos, that's for sure, but back in the time when Shimanos were clogging easily with mud leaves, snow, etc,... the CB were a sensible choice. Now, I agree there is no good reason not to ride Shimano pedals and I am in the process of converting my bikes to Shimano XTs.

I am currently still riding a pair of Candy 3 that are several seasons old. They replaced some very old Candy (1st gen w/ resin cage) which I still have as backup. These are so banged-up from rock strikes that the resin cage is destroyed and barely holds the screw-on cap, but they still work.

Apart from that, I broke the spindle on a 1st generation Mallet (exactly like Jm_ 's picture above) after several seasons. It sucks that it broke, but it had a good life.

The only really bad pair I got was a more recent pair of Mallet 3 (Alloy body with set-screw pins). The bearing self-destructed rather early (2nd season maybe?) and did so much damage in the process that the pedal was impossible to repair.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
Lets not forget brass cleats wearing down crazy-fast, causing your foot to release at the worst times when you are mashing like crazy, at which point your knee flies up at about 50mph to crash into the brake lever and shifter, usuallly resulting in a bloody knee. Also replicated sometimes when you smash the bottom of the mechanism on a rock, releasing the mechanism. Then there's the rotational-release, which is good for people that need more float, but it also means twisting further to release, which is impossible to do rotating your heel inwards. Although much more rare, I've had to exit like this occasionally, with CB it usually meant falling, painfully. Good design? If you need disposable race pedals, you are willing to make some sacrifices.

Yeah, the old shimanos did jam up a bit more, but that's why Time pedals existed. Then people saw how light CB was and they basically couldn't help themselves from buying them.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Times that desintegrated and CB's that desintegrated slightly slower than times.
I've been using time pedals since about 1997. I've broken some of the big dh ones on rock hits that bend cranks but it was just the platform corner and the pedal still functions perfectly. I've bent some spindles in the same kinds of hits but that's a 12 dollar replacement and even if you don't do that, they still work. I've still got a plastic "little bike" pair I've been riding for 10 years, which is about the time Crank Brothers was born. That's in east coast rox, southeast dookie clay, and then west coast desert solar death rays. What disintegrates exactly?
 
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