[JimmyTwoTimes]

same thing as region-coding of DVDs. you want to buy a $2 DVD made in Asia? yr US region-coded player can't play it. sorry, but that's game.

blaming modern medicine and researchers (and their inherent "good") for this is ludicrous, don't you think?

btw, have you and knuck formed a tin-foil hat operation in Worcester together?

btw rob - you haven't answered my hypothetical question as to whether or not you regret being vaccinated against polio. did your parents do you wrong?

Spending millions lobbying Washington to ban the sale of cheap Canadian drugs in the US? Come on. Allowing that would only create "inherent good". What it will not do, is impress their shareholders. That is ludicrous and I gurantee everybody the 'buck' does not stop there.

 

[McGRP01]

Chanting healing mantras never helped anyone.

You sure? I think a lot of it has to do with the human brain and it's ability to "believe" what is working actually works. There is a lot about the the brain that we know nothing about. I'm not making a case one way or the other, just stating that neither side so be so quick to assume that the other is a bunch of B.S..

 

[SkaredShtles]

Chiropractors, not witch doctors. Narlus and the majority of the rest of the board is apparently unable to differentiate.

Witchdoctors use drugs. Chiropractors don't.

 

[robdamanii]

You sure? I think a lot of it has to do with the human brain and it's ability to "believe" what is working actually works. There is a lot about the the brain that we know nothing about. I'm not making a case one way or the other, just stating that neither side so be so quick to assume that the other is a bunch of B.S..

Exactly. There is a heavily mental component to most "alternative" (if you care to call them that) therapies, however there is, in the case of manipulation, a strong physiological component involved as well.

 

[narlus]

Do I think they were? I don't know. I don't know a world OTHER than that.

if this is a response to my polio line of questioning, i have no idea what you are talking about.

The chinese are still around after several thousand years. Are you telling me their medicine holds NO value whatsoever?

if i got seriously ill in beijing, i'd take my chances getting treatment from someone like Toshi rather than the some guy w/ an impressive array of dried tiger penises and bear gall bladders.

but that's just me.

 

[SkaredShtles]

You sure? I think a lot of it has to do with the human brain and it's ability to "believe" what is working actually works. There is a lot about the the brain that we know nothing about. I'm not making a case one way or the other, just stating that neither side so be so quick to assume that the other is a bunch of B.S..

Well, if the human brain did the healing, then it wasn't actually the chanting. I'm pretty sure the brain's ability to provide healing has been documented.

 

[robdamanii]

Witchdoctors use drugs. Chiropractors don't.

Uh, I know. Narlus was calling a chiropractor a witch doctor. *shrug*

Whatever. Derogatory or not, I know the benefits of it and I'll continue with it regardless of the opinion of a few uninformed souls.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>

if i got seriously ill in beijing, i'd take my chances getting treatment from someone like Toshi rather than the some guy w/ an impressive array of dried tiger penises and bear gall bladders.

but that's just me.

 

[BikeGeek]

...the majority of the rest of the board is apparently unable to differentiate.

13 people have posted in this thread. RM has 12,756 members.

 

[robdamanii]

if this is a response to my polio line of questioning, i have no idea what you are talking about.



if i got seriously ill in beijing, i'd take my chances getting treatment from someone like Toshi rather than the some guy w/ an impressive array of dried tiger penises and bear gall bladders.

but that's just me.

And that's your preference. Note I did not call you an idiot for going to an MD, the same way you should have not at ALL condemned my profession as a group of "witch doctors".

 

[narlus]

<snip> hyrdrocullator therapy <snip>

this sounded like a made-up word, so i googled it; turns out it's fancy term for "heat pack".

you learn something new every day.

 

[SilentJ]

Yeah, name calling is cool. As is calling an entire legitimate profession of DOCTORS quacks, liars, witch doctors, etc.

If you disagree, that's fine. I've no problem with disagreement, but when you decide YOU'RE right, when YOU HAVE NO CLUE AS TO THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE PROFESSION OR IT'S INTRACICIES, YOU ARE BEYOND STUPID.

I'm so much more convinced now.

I AM right in my case and many of my family members' case. None of us go any more because we realized that you just have to keep coming back for more - like a cheap drug.

And how the hell do you have any idea of what my knowledge base is?

I don't care if you believe antibiotics and vaccinations and western medicine are the greatest global cures of all time, that's your business.

I do believe antibiotics are over-prescribed and abused, but I do believe they have their place and can be very helpful to people that really need them. Like MBC says, talk to Splat.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Exactly. There is a heavily mental component to most "alternative" (if you care to call them that) therapies, <snip>

So in other words, if you go in and are skeptical, you may not get the results you want? This type of "healing" is awfully suspect, in my book.

 

[robdamanii]

So in other words, if you go in and are skeptical, you may not get the results you want? This type of "healing" is awfully suspect, in my book.

If you take a drug and don't expect it to work, then often it doesn't work. That's awfully suspect as well.

Edit:
And furthermore, the physiological component of, for example, an osteopathic/chiropractic manipulation is also well documented. By relieveing abnormal biomechanics of a segment of the body, the body can repair any damage that has been caused BY those improper biomechanics. Think orthodics....it's the exact same thing.

 

[McGRP01]

Well, if the human brain did the healing, then it wasn't actually the chanting. I'm pretty sure the brain's ability to provide healing has been documented.

But if there was no chanting to believe, the brain wouldn't have the stimuli to use as a "source" of healing to believe. I suppose there may be people out there that sit in a state of complete sensory deprevation that get better all the time. I've yet to meet one though.

 

[Echo]

No offense, but the term "witch doctor" and "quack" are attacks and personal insults upon myself directly and the profession.

Close the thread. The minute it degenerated into a bunch of people ignorantly trying to tell me I'm an idiot for persuing my choice of career is where it went out of hand.

This is not up for debate. Read the RM rules.

If you want to try to convince people that their opinion of your chosen profession is inaccurate, do it without personal insults.

 

[narlus]

Uh, I know. Narlus was calling a chiropractor a witch doctor. *shrug*

Whatever. Derogatory or not, I know the benefits of it and I'll continue with it regardless of the opinion of a few uninformed souls.

maybe i shoulda stuck w/ "shaman"; who knew the witch doctor tag would have you frothing at the mouth?

btw, don't get too comfortable in that glass house (i'm sure accupressure can sort it out, though, if you have some pain) - who threw the first stone?

F modern medicine, it's useless.

apologies to rob; the above quote was from knuckle and not rob, as i mistakenly assumed.

 

[bluebug32]

good luck being a witchdoctor.

or are you striving to be a shaman?

Why do you say things like this? There's absolutely no good reason to completely bash someone and their future. We're tolerant of your self-indulgent, pompus remarks that appear in nearly every thread.

If chiropractic makes people feel better, then let them go to their chiropractor. If acupuncture takes away your pain, then let people do that. But unless you have an informed opinion, please keep your mouth shut.

 

[robdamanii]

I'm so much more convinced now.

I AM right in my case and many of my family members' case. None of us go any more because we realized that you just have to keep coming back for more - like a cheap drug.

And how the hell do you have any idea of what my knowledge base is?



I do believe antibiotics are over-prescribed and abused, but I do believe they have their place and can be very helpful to people that really need them. Like MBC says, talk to Splat.

Again, SHOW ME WHERE I SAID WESTERN MEDICINE IS COMPLETELY USELESS?

Would I say an acupuncturist will cure cancer? No. Would they cure HIV or AIDS? No. Will they fix a gunshot wound? No. To say otherwise is lunacy.

And don't forget that there ARE poor quality chiropractors, just like there are poor quality MDs. The reason people refuse to believe in a chiropractor is that their MD says not to. And for some reason, MDs have such a mystique about them that they are never wrong. Yeah...they're never wrong...

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

...don't forget the telecommuting problem. That's a conspiracy too... :lol:

 

[lovebunny]

:

And how the hell do you have any idea of what my knowledge base is?
.

haha thats exactly what i was thinking. i think rob got on the defensive a lil to quickly.

 

[narlus]

Why do you say things like this? There's absolutely no good reason to completely bash someone and their future. We're tolerant of your self-indulgent, pompus remarks that appear in nearly every thread.

yeah, i need to cut back on that self-indulgent pomposity. perhaps polariods of my man-titties is a better use of my posting time?

If chiropractic makes people feel better, then let them go to their chiropractor. If acupuncture takes away your pain, then let people do that. But unless you have an informed opinion, please keep your mouth shut.

so because i made an off-hand remark, and presented an opposite opinion, suddenly i'm not informed? what do you know about my education or background?

 

[robdamanii]

haha thats exactly what i was thinking. i think rob got on the defensive a lil to quickly.

Frankly, unless you're actually a member of said profession, you do NOT know the educational philosophy or the physiological reasoning behind what we do. That's the nature of the beast. It's not nearly as readily available as WebMD.

 

[SkaredShtles]

But if there was no chanting to believe, the brain wouldn't have the stimuli to use as a "source" of healing to believe. I suppose there may be people out there that sit in a state of complete sensory deprevation that get better all the time. I've yet to meet one though.

But following this line of reasoning, then *anything* could be done to heal someone. I don't buy it.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

ok, can we all just cool our jets and get back on track?
Use your own post to talk about chiropractics.

 

[robdamanii]

But following this line of reasoning, then *anything* could be done to heal someone. I don't buy it.

Why do people show marked improvement when taking a placebo they believe is a drug?

They believe something is being done to help them. It works in ALL realms, from acupuncture to massage to pharmaceutical therapy.

 

[McGRP01]

But following this line of reasoning, then *anything* could be done to heal someone. I don't buy it.

Use the force Luke.....

 

[SkaredShtles]

Why do you say things like this? There's absolutely no good reason to completely bash someone and their future. We're tolerant of your self-indulgent, pompus remarks that appear in nearly every thread.

If chiropractic makes people feel better, then let them go to their chiropractor. If acupuncture takes away your pain, then let people do that. But unless you have an informed opinion, please keep your mouth shut.

Snakeoil salesmen had *lots* of anecdotal evidence that their particular potion healed people. However, they often had very little science to back it up.

I'm very wary of people who claim to be able to fix things but can't provide a shred of scientific evidence that such things actually work.

BTW - I'm not attacking chiros here. I've never been to one, so I can't really comment on their training/philosophy, etc.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Use the force Luke.....

Exactly. Or pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

This is all fine and dandy if that's what you want to do, but I'll take my chances with things that are held up to a *very* rigorous scientific standard.

Far be it from me to stand between a charlatan and a fool with some cash burning a hole in his pocket.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Why do people show marked improvement when taking a placebo they believe is a drug?

They believe something is being done to help them. It works in ALL realms, from acupuncture to massage to pharmaceutical therapy.

Absolutely. Why then, do you suppose that they don't simply hand out placebos for every ailment?

 

[robdamanii]

Snakeoil salesmen had *lots* of anecdotal evidence that their particular potion healed people. However, they often had very little science to back it up.

I'm very wary of people who claim to be able to fix things but can't provide a shred of scientific evidence that such things actually work.

BTW - I'm not attacking chiros here. I've never been to one, so I can't really comment on their training/philosophy, etc.

Frankly, you've made the BEST points thus far, by merely expressing your argument as an inquiry, not as a pointed, derogatory opinion.

 

[Knuckleslammer]

I went to a chiropractor, a few weeks back. Went about 10 visits and my back was never in so much pain in my life.

I then decided to become somebody without back pain. What a novel concept ha? Back pain is gone.

REMEMBER - EVERY DISEASE IS THE RESULT OF AN ATTITUDE. LIFE IS 10% OF CIRCUMSTANCES AND 90% OF YOUR REACTIONS TO SAID CIRCUMSTANCES.

There are genetic propensities for diseases, however it is OUR REACTION TO THE ENVIRONMENT that allow those genetic propensities to manifest in disease form. All about triggers folks and your reaction to them. Job, bills, wife, kids, money. It's all irrelevant really. We are here to MAKE KNOWN THE UNKNOWN. Anything less than that, your soul gets tired and kicks your body to the curb. NEW NEW NEW IS THE CLUE CLUE CLUE.

You might think this is new age psychobabble, but it's not. Really read these words and understand them.

You will see much more of this type of thing published by modern medicine in the near future. One thing they forgot to teach us in High School was how to ******g think. YEAH HA? Imagine what it would be like to actually be able to think for yourself? As an energy being, don't you think you should be thinking at light speed, without words?

Can you look at an object and know what it is without saying the word in your head?

THINK GOD DAMMIT.

Dr. Knuckle

 

[narlus]

Absolutely. Why then, do you suppose that they don't simply hand out placebos for every ailment?

bingo.

you need a negative control, and to demostrate superiority as compared to that negative control.

 

[SilentJ]

Again, SHOW ME WHERE I SAID WESTERN MEDICINE IS COMPLETELY USELESS?

I was just saying that I didn't believe that "antibiotics and vaccinations and western medicine are the greatest global cures of all time" - as you put it. Neither the chiro or the puncturist dude did anything for me - I was definitely happy to go and was looking forward to some progress in aiding my ailments - chiro made it worse(3 different chiros told me they were going to do about the same thing to me) and the needle guy just made things ache with no improvement.

And don't forget that there ARE poor quality chiropractors, just like there are poor quality MDs. The reason people refuse to believe in a chiropractor is that their MD says not to. And for some reason, MDs have such a mystique about them that they are never wrong. Yeah...they're never wrong...

I was told to go to a chiro by my family doctor.

Docs can be just as much as an ass-jacks as anybody - I actually called one a dumbass once and walked out of his clinic...

 

[SkaredShtles]

I went to a chiropractor, a few weeks back. Went about 10 visits and my back was never in so much pain in my life.<snip>

Can you look at an object and know what it is without saying the word in your head?

THINK GOD DAMMIT.

Dr. Knuckle

You spelled "Flying Spaghetti Monster" wrong.

I've been touched by his noodly appendage......... have you?

 

[McGRP01]

You spelled "Flying Spaghetti Monster" wrong.

I've been touched by his noodly appendage......... have you?

Indeed.

 

[narlus]

You spelled "Flying Spaghetti Monster" wrong.

I've been touched by his noodly appendage......... have you?

http://www.venganza.org/touched.htm

 

[DRB]

Again, SHOW ME WHERE I SAID WESTERN MEDICINE IS COMPLETELY USELESS?

I think you said:

And frankly, I don't believe, from both personal experiences and observations, that most modern medicine acutally works worth a damn. Sure, broken bones can be set, and severe injuries can be repaired, but by and large....I see the vast majority of pharmaceuticals as unnecessary and overprescribed.

Or this

I DO however know that the western medicine world we live in is grossly undersuccessful for all the advancement we've made.

Or from above

And for some reason, MDs have such a mystique about them that they are never wrong. Yeah...they're never wrong...

For someone so sensitive about their choices of professions you are very quick to judge MDs, their motivations and their abilities. So using your logic and your gf I think y'all should get off their backs until you have the same level of education and experience as they do in their chosen fields.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I think you said:

Don't be such an arse.......

 

[DRB]

Don't be such an arse.......

I hate you.