[N8 v2.0]

Marines search for fallen comrade
From correspondents in southern Iraq
April 01, 2003
US Marines moved into the southern Iraqi town of Shatrah today to recover the body of a dead comrade which had been hanged in the town square, officers said.

Hundreds of troops were dispatched on the operation after intelligence reports indicated the body of a dead American, who was killed in a firefight last week, had been paraded through the streets and hanged in public.

(READ MORE)

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by N8
Marines search for fallen comrade
From correspondents in southern Iraq
April 01, 2003
US Marines moved into the southern Iraqi town of Shatrah today to recover the body of a dead comrade which had been hanged in the town square, officers said.

Hundreds of troops were dispatched on the operation after intelligence reports indicated the body of a dead American, who was killed in a firefight last week, had been paraded through the streets and hanged in public.

(READ MORE)

It is possible that our little war is not popular among the people of Iraq...

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
It is possible that out little war is not popular among the people of Iraq...

Would you be in favor of a war if it came through your hometown?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by mrbigisbudgood
Would you be in favor of a war if it came through your hometown?

If there was no one to stop me I might participate in the public display of a dead invading soldier... if I were a member of the armed services I am sure my training would stop me.

We should all remember that we are not fighting an army that subsribes to the Geneva convention.

We show up as an invading force in a country that has had most of it's arms destroyed by UN mandate - and then we expect them to defend themselves in a manner that is convenient to our strategic and political goals?

I don't agree with the Iraqi tactics at all but we are at war with them. I think it was damn silly to expect flowers in the streets and mass surrender...

Don't think I am anti war... I just think we need to be realistic about what we have decided to do.

 

[N8 v2.0]

...well... was this war of yours to 'free' me of the current government that oppressed me?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by N8
...well... was this war of yours to 'free' me of the current government that oppressed me?

Are you oppressed and seeking outside intervention?

 

[Tweek]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
We should all remember that we are not fighting an army that subsribes to the Geneva convention.

Very true.
I'm not for this war, but when this happens, and when the Iraqi govt. says that they have hundreds of suicide bombers at the ready, I don't feel so bad when a "civilian" gets shot to death for either trying to grab a US soldier's gun or when failing to stop at a checkpoint. It's tragic that these idiots shield themselves with women and kids, but the Arab media crying "foul" falls on my deaf ears.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by N8
...well... was this war of yours to 'free' me of the current government that oppressed me?

Exaggeration, but say presidential approval ratings are below 50%. Does that mean we wouldn't defend our country if invaded by a force claiming they were "freeing" us?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by Tweek
Very true.
I'm not for this war, but when this happens, and when the Iraqi govt. says that they have hundreds of suicide bombers at the ready, I don't feel so bad when a "civilian" gets shot to death for either trying to grab a US soldier's gun or when failing to stop at a checkpoint. It's tragic that these idiots shield themselves with women and kids, but the Arab media crying "foul" falls on my deaf ears.

WORD.

 

[dangitboy]

They did this to outraqe and shock us, and it has worked.

Dave

 

[N8 v2.0]

Originally posted by ohio
Exaggeration, but say presidential approval ratings are below 50%. Does that mean we wouldn't defend our country if invaded by a force claiming they were "freeing" us?

Well... would you? Would you fight to defend your government?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by N8
Well... would you? Would you fight to defend your government?

I would fight to defend our form of govornment.


I would not feel so hot about impossing "American" style values and beliefs upon those who do not want it. We cannot give the Iraqi people freedom - if they even want it, they will have to fight for it themselves.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
I would fight to defend our form of govornment.


I would not feel so hot about impossing "American" style values and beliefs upon those who do not want it. We cannot give the Iraqi people freedom - if they even want it, they will have to fight for it themselves.

Yep attitudes like that keep folks enslaved for a long long time.

Sometime folks can't fight for themselves. I guess those folks get to stay under someone's boot heel.

 

[laura]

that is so so sad.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by N8
Well... would you? Would you fight to defend your government?

No. I would fight to defend my country.

I posed that hypothetical to perhaps show that their behavior isn't so inexplicable.

I currently feel like our government is under the control of a maniacal (and moronic) religious zealot in control of unimagineable weaponry, hellbent on crusading his way to world domination, falsely elected, using the taxpayers coffers to fill his own pockets and those of his cronies. However, if another country were to invade us in attempt to liberate me from him, I would go to the ends of the earth to defend my homeland.

Make sense?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by DRB
Yep attitudes like that keep folks enslaved for a long long time.

Sometime folks can't fight for themselves. I guess those folks get to stay under someone's boot heel.

Who says the Iraqi people want us to fight for them??? We are not being welcomed with flowers by those we have already 'liberated'.

I am not in favor of force feeding the eldery either.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Who says the Iraqi people want us to fight for them??? We are not being welcomed with flowers by those we have already 'liberated'.

Yeah because Saddam's little fun bunch will kill them if they do.

 

[Spud]

Originally posted by DRB
Yeah because Saddam's little fun bunch will kill them if they do.

Plus the fact that we left Basra high and dry back in 1991. The uprising was ignored by the US and brutally squashed by Saddam. We didn't act then and they don't trust us.

 

[dangitboy]

You're right. It is sad.

 

[FlipSide]

Originally posted by ohio
No. I would fight to defend my country.

I posed that hypothetical to perhaps show that their behavior isn't so inexplicable.

I currently feel like our government is under the control of a maniacal (and moronic) religious zealot in control of unimagineable weaponry, hellbent on crusading his way to world domination, falsely elected, using the taxpayers coffers to fill his own pockets and those of his cronies. However, if another country were to invade us in attempt to liberate me from him, I would go to the ends of the earth to defend my homeland.

Make sense?

You can not even believe how much I enjoyed reading this post! It's refreshing to see some americans questionning some (most) of Dubya's actions.

 

[Stellite]

Originally posted by Spud
Plus the fact that we left Basra high and dry back in 1991. The uprising was ignored by the US and brutally squashed by Saddam. We didn't act then and they don't trust us.

That's right, last time we let the idiot nations of the world and the idiots within our own country pressure us to stop including plus a week president.

This time we won't let the idiots and idiot nations of today do the same and force us to stop now that we have a stronger administration.

Spud, great words man, you are so right. We won't let them stop us this time, I totally agree with you:devil:

 

[dangitboy]

Yes..thank you Spud! That is a very valid point!

Dave

 

[Serial Midget]

My point is that our little adventure in liberation is no gaurantee of Iraqi freedom... so we get rid of Saddam, what next? Freedom does not come on a silver platter - the Iraqi people will still have to free themselves.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
My point is that our little adventure in liberation is no gaurantee of Iraqi freedom... so we get rid of Saddam, what next? Freedom does not come on a silver platter - the Iraqi people will still have to free themselves.

But at least you get them in spot where they can do it.

 

[Spud]

Originally posted by Stellite
That's right, last time we let the idiot nations of the world and the idiots within our own country pressure us to stop including plus a week president.

This time we won't let the idiots and idiot nations of today do the same and force us to stop now that we have a stronger administration.

Spud, great words man, you are so right. We won't let them stop us this time, I totally agree with you:devil:

Stellite – we seem to agree on the course to take now. We have started this deal, we are obliged to stick it out for the long run this time.

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

 

[llkoolkeg]

Do you think that it was the a group of regular Iraqi citizens who did that to the soldier's corpse or might it have been the Fedayeen Saddam? You may recall the same thing was done in Somalia after our Blackhawks were shot down. I would bet that it was done more for the benefit of intimidating potential U.S. sympathizers and suppressing dissent among the Iraqi people and only secondarily to shock and anger us. Why do you think these thugs fired on Iraqi citizens attempting to flee the city and hung up the body of the Iraqi woman with the flag of surrender in the town square previously?

 

[Serial Midget]

They too have nightly news...

 

[patconnole]

Originally posted by FlipSide
You can not even believe how much I enjoyed reading this post! It's refreshing to see some americans questionning some (most) of Dubya's actions.

Don't worry, there's plenty out there-- perhaps a voting majority? But "Bush was sworn in. He's the president." as Gore put it, even though we're usually thinking what ohio said.

 

[douglas]

Originally posted by ohio
No. I would fight to defend my country.

I posed that hypothetical to perhaps show that their behavior isn't so inexplicable.

I currently feel like our government is under the control of a maniacal (and moronic) religious zealot in control of unimagineable weaponry, hellbent on crusading his way to world domination, falsely elected, using the taxpayers coffers to fill his own pockets and those of his cronies. However, if another country were to invade us in attempt to liberate me from him, I would go to the ends of the earth to defend my homeland.

Make sense?

makes total sense to me!

 

[Stellite]

I would rather have Bush than gore/clinton any day of the week as our president. But I can see french people liking clinton as having multiple affairs while your married is not so bad in france.

As for the people of Iraq not wanting us there and showing it, it is most likely that it was the thugs that did it, while the people that live there watched being afraid as usual. Stories are already comming out of the people being freed and saying how evel Saddam was and he would murder entire families. So this argument here is moot. The people want their freedom but until now were to afraid to show it. PArtly thanks to Bush 1991 who didn't finish the job, due to Arab pressure.

The following is typical of what you hear from freed iraqis that were not part of the evil regime:


Fact Sheet
Office of International Women's Issues
Washington, DC
March 20, 2003

Iraqi Women Under Saddam's Regime: A Population Silenced

Situation for Women in Saddam's Iraq
In 1979, immediately upon coming to power, Saddam Hussein silenced all political opposition in Iraq and converted his one-party state into a cult of personality. Since then, his regime has systematically executed, tortured, imprisoned, raped, terrorized, and repressed the Iraqi people. Iraq is a nation rich in culture, with a long history of intellectual and scientific achievement, especially among its women. However, Saddam Hussein's brutal regime has silenced the voices of Iraq's women, along with its men, through violence and intimidation.

In Iraq under Saddam, if you are a woman, you could face:



Beheading. Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam," the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son, have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country, dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners, August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)

Rape. The Iraqi Government uses rape and sexual assault of women to achieve the following goals: to extract information and forced confessions from detained family members; to intimidate Iraqi oppositionists by sending videotapes showing the rape of female family members; and to blackmail Iraqi men into future cooperation with the regime. Some Iraqi authorities even carry personnel cards identifying their official "activity" as the "violation of women's honor." (U.S. Department of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices-2001, March 2002; Iraq Research and Documentation Project, Harvard University)


Torture. The Iraqi Government routinely tortures and kills female dissidents and the female relatives of Iraqi oppositionists and defectors. Victims include Safiyah Hassan, the mother of two Iraqi defectors, who was killed after publicly criticizing the Iraqi Government for killing her sons after their return to Iraq. Women in Saddam's jails are subjected to the following forms of torture: brutal beatings, systematic rape, electrical shocks, and branding. (U.S. Department of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices-2001, March 2002; U.S. Department of State, Iraq: A Population Silenced, December 2002)





Murder. In 1990, Saddam Hussein introduced Article 111 into the Iraqi Penal Code in a calculated effort to strengthen tribal support for his regime. This law exempts men who kill their female relatives in defense of their family's honor from prosecution and punishment. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women reported that more than 4,000 women have been victims of so-called "honor killings" since Article 111 went into effect. (UN Commission on Human Rights, Report of the Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women, January 2002)



U.S. Support for Iraqi Women
All people deserve to live in freedom, including the men and women of Iraq. On March 6, 2003, a group of free Iraqi women met with Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs Paula Dobriansky, and Ambassador at Large for a Free Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad. The women shared their experiences under Saddam's reign of terror. As this group made clear, Iraqi women are eager to participate in the process of building a peaceful, democratic post-Saddam society. They want their society to once again be based on progressive Iraqi traditions and values. They believe in the universal principles of human rights.
As in Afghanistan, the United States Government is prepared to help Iraqis with the priorities and projects that they identify as the best way to achieve their goals. We will continue to meet with Iraqi women and exchange ideas about their path forward. As Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs Paula Dobriansky stated after her recent meeting with a group of free Iraqi women: "It is clear that the women of Iraq have a critical role to play in the future revival of their society. They bring skills and knowledge that will be vital to restoring Iraq to its rightful place in the region and in the world."

 

[Silver]

You know, I've really gotta complain about justifying an invasion based on what exiles want. I know some Cuban exiles, very nice people, but if you asked them if they would consider nuking Cuba if it would kill Castro, they would do it.

Keep in mind that listening to the Cuban exiles in Florida has led to our current amazingly shortsighted policy toward Cuba. You'd think that our hard-on for Castro might have gone down over the years.

Also, terrorizing women was happening for a long time under the Taliban in Afghanistan, and we didn't really care about that, did we? If September 11 hadn't happened, full burkas and no education for women would still be the order of the day. From what I've heard, things still aren't great over there right now as is.

We're at war. We know, but I hate having the president bull**** me as to the reason.

 

[Serial Midget]

Conditions for women in Saudi Arabia are not much different... shall we liberate them next?

 

[Stellite]

Originally posted by Silver
You know, I've really gotta complain about justifying an invasion based on what exiles want. I know some Cuban exiles, very nice people, but if you asked them if they would consider nuking Cuba if it would kill Castro, they would do it.

Keep in mind that listening to the Cuban exiles in Florida has led to our current amazingly shortsighted policy toward Cuba. You'd think that our hard-on for Castro might have gone down over the years.

Also, terrorizing women was happening for a long time under the Taliban in Afghanistan, and we didn't really care about that, did we? If September 11 hadn't happened, full burkas and no education for women would still be the order of the day. From what I've heard, things still aren't great over there right now as is.

We're at war. We know, but I hate having the president bull**** me as to the reason.

I understand where your comming from. However, it's not just exiles, it's people that are living there that are now being freed. The treatment of human life is horrendous. Look at Private Lynch, she had a gunshot wound probably before she was captured, but where did the broken legs and broken arm come from. The doctor from that hospital told US troops that there was an american female being tortured in the building.
HUMANITARIANS!!

The individuals that ran road blocks were apparently told to do so or their families wold be executed, uncluding that large group of women and children. Survivors stories.


Here is another story for you, a little more closer to home and unbiased:



Iraqis in Syria speak out against Saddam



By ZEINA KARAM, Associated Press
Last Updated 11:50 a.m. PST Tuesday, March 25, 2003SAYDA ZEINAB, Syria (AP) - The small, bespectacled Iraqi housewife sat on the floor of a Shiite Muslim shrine just outside the Syrian capital Damascus, speaking in rushed, quiet tones of her hatred for her president, Saddam Hussein."All he (Saddam) did was take the country from one war to the other. First Iran, then Kuwait and now this," Raziqa al-Hadi said.

On hearing this, another Iraqi woman was emboldened to chime in: "I agree. I hope Saddam dies!"

Then the bickering began among the women wrapped in floor-length black cloaks. One incensed woman gripped the arm of the second speaker and silenced her, causing her to scurry off.

"Shut up! Don't say that. We would gladly give our blood for Saddam," shouted Fatmeh Shammas, waving her fist at a reporter as she repeated a slogan often heard in Baghdad.

It was hard to say whether Shammas was voicing her real feelings, or saying what she thought it was safe to say. Iraqis fear Iraq's ruling Baath party has many informants in Syria, and they know Saddam has a record of brutally repressing dissent.

Scores of Iraqi Shiite Muslims come to the Sayda Zeinab shrine every day to pay homage to the Prophet Muhammad's granddaughter, Zeinab. There are more than half a million Iraqis currently in Syria. Most have arrived over the past month and are staying with friends or in rented homes until the war ends.

On Monday, a dark and rainy day in Damascus, the mood among worshippers was just as gloomy and subdued. Many sat on thin floor mats, leaning against the mosaic walls of the compound and reading from the Quran or chatting with family and friends.

The raging war in their homeland is the subject of much debate. There is general disappointment that what Iraqis here had hoped would be a quick and decisive military action seems to be turning into a drawn-out campaign.

Many blame Saddam for their sorry state while others - some recent arrivals fleeing the war - are less forthright.

Saddam "is our savior," said Abed Marzouk, a 45-year-old ambulance driver from Najaf.

U.S. tanks and infantry have reached Najaf, less than 100 miles from Baghdad.

Shiites have special reason to fear Saddam's regime. They constitute a majority in Iraq, but have long been repressed by Sunni Muslim leaders like Saddam. After Iraq's defeat in the 1991 Gulf War, Shiites in the south rebelled. They were quickly crushed by Saddam's Republican Guard in a campaign that is believed to have killed tens of thousands. Resentment lingers at the United States for failing to aid the rebellion.

Ali Mohsen, an Iraqi who left his home in Baghdad a month ago with his wife and five children, says he will return only when the Iraqi leadership is toppled.

"Hopefully things would change by then," said the 60-year-old Mohsen.

 

[MtBikeBetty]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Conditions for women in Saudi Arabia are not much different... shall we liberate them next?

I can only say....."1440"

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by MtBikeBetty
I can only say....."1440"

You said it and I read it... but

Resolution 1440 condemned the hostage-taking of Chechen rebel in Moscow during October 2002.

The Security Council,

Reaffirming the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and its relevant resolutions, in particular resolution 1373 (2001) of 28 September 2001,

Reaffirming the need to combat by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts,

1. Condemns in the strongest terms the heinous act of taking hostages in Moscow, the Russian Federation, on 23 October 2002, as well as other recent terrorist acts in various countries, and regards such acts, like any act of international terrorism, as a threat to international peace and security;

2. Demands immediate and unconditional release of all hostages of this terrorist act;

3. Expresses the deepest sympathy and condolences to the people and the Government of the Russian Federation and to the victims of the terrorist attack and their families;

4. Urges all States, in accordance with their obligations under resolution 1373 (2001), to cooperate with the Russian authorities in their efforts to find and bring to justice the perpetrators, organizers and sponsors of this terrorist attack;

5. Expresses its reinforced determination to combat all forms of terrorism, in accordance with its responsibilities under the Charter of the United Nations.

 

[rbx]

Originally posted by Stellite
I understand where your comming from. However, it's not just exiles, it's people that are living there that are now being freed. The treatment of human life is horrendous. Look at Private Lynch, she had a gunshot wound probably before she was captured, but where did the broken legs and broken arm come from. The doctor from that hospital told US troops that there was an american female being tortured in the building.
HUMANITARIANS!!

The individuals that ran road blocks were apparently told to do so or their families wold be executed, uncluding that large group of women and children. Survivors stories.


Here is another story for you, a little more closer to home and unbiased:



Iraqis in Syria speak out against Saddam



By ZEINA KARAM, Associated Press
Last Updated 11:50 a.m. PST Tuesday, March 25, 2003SAYDA ZEINAB, Syria (AP) - The small, bespectacled Iraqi housewife sat on the floor of a Shiite Muslim shrine just outside the Syrian capital Damascus, speaking in rushed, quiet tones of her hatred for her president, Saddam Hussein."All he (Saddam) did was take the country from one war to the other. First Iran, then Kuwait and now this," Raziqa al-Hadi said.

On hearing this, another Iraqi woman was emboldened to chime in: "I agree. I hope Saddam dies!"

Then the bickering began among the women wrapped in floor-length black cloaks. One incensed woman gripped the arm of the second speaker and silenced her, causing her to scurry off.

"Shut up! Don't say that. We would gladly give our blood for Saddam," shouted Fatmeh Shammas, waving her fist at a reporter as she repeated a slogan often heard in Baghdad.

It was hard to say whether Shammas was voicing her real feelings, or saying what she thought it was safe to say. Iraqis fear Iraq's ruling Baath party has many informants in Syria, and they know Saddam has a record of brutally repressing dissent.

Scores of Iraqi Shiite Muslims come to the Sayda Zeinab shrine every day to pay homage to the Prophet Muhammad's granddaughter, Zeinab. There are more than half a million Iraqis currently in Syria. Most have arrived over the past month and are staying with friends or in rented homes until the war ends.

On Monday, a dark and rainy day in Damascus, the mood among worshippers was just as gloomy and subdued. Many sat on thin floor mats, leaning against the mosaic walls of the compound and reading from the Quran or chatting with family and friends.

The raging war in their homeland is the subject of much debate. There is general disappointment that what Iraqis here had hoped would be a quick and decisive military action seems to be turning into a drawn-out campaign.

Many blame Saddam for their sorry state while others - some recent arrivals fleeing the war - are less forthright.

Saddam "is our savior," said Abed Marzouk, a 45-year-old ambulance driver from Najaf.

U.S. tanks and infantry have reached Najaf, less than 100 miles from Baghdad.

Shiites have special reason to fear Saddam's regime. They constitute a majority in Iraq, but have long been repressed by Sunni Muslim leaders like Saddam. After Iraq's defeat in the 1991 Gulf War, Shiites in the south rebelled. They were quickly crushed by Saddam's Republican Guard in a campaign that is believed to have killed tens of thousands. Resentment lingers at the United States for failing to aid the rebellion.

Ali Mohsen, an Iraqi who left his home in Baghdad a month ago with his wife and five children, says he will return only when the Iraqi leadership is toppled.

"Hopefully things would change by then," said the 60-year-old Mohsen.

i can tell you that of the 15 year war that ripped throu my native country(lebanon) 5 of those years were fought against invading syrian army, the captured syrians soldiers told of horrendous human rights in syria.theres was actually a secret syrian police behind the advancing syrian army that shot on site anybody that was deserting during an attack.

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by FlipSide
You can not even believe how much I enjoyed reading this post! It's refreshing to see some americans questionning some (most) of Dubya's actions.

don't think that all of us go w/ the grain......

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by indieboy
don't think that all of us go w/ the grain......

French-Canadian suck up...

 

[Stellite]

Originally posted by rbx
i can tell you that of the 15 year war that ripped throu my native country(lebanon) 5 of those years were fought against invading syrian army, the captured syrians soldiers told of horrendous human rights in syria.theres was actually a secret syrian police behind the advancing syrian army that shot on site anybody that was deserting during an attack.

I guess more than just one Crazy maniac got his teaching from Stalin:angry:

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
French-Canadian suck up...

nope