I don't know. I don't race anymore. I'd be annoyed about having to pay money to race against someone who was always a huge margin ahead of everyone else in my class just because the race organizers wouldn't let them upgrade.
Do you think this guy should race pro? (video)
- Thread starter Alloy
- Start date
I don't blame you or anyone else in that situation, but, this guy has not been dominating am class at USAC races so we don't know that would be the case.
Because he has to prove he deserves to be in Pro class, just like every other pro racer. That's great he got 3rd in Pro at a race. Right now, his resume currently consists of ONE race. May have been a fluke, but probably not. One good finish at a non-USAC race is not sufficient to convince USAC officials to grant him a Pro license.
In case you had actually read the thread, which you obviously haven't judging by this statement you fvcking tool, you'd know the USAC rules. If he's winning by huge margins in Cat 1, he would only be doing so for two races. At which point, he'd be eligible to upgrade to pro. With some of the new rule changes, he'd be taking his points with him, so you wouldn't have to worry about him for the series overall. Yes it sucks to not win, but in this scenario its not like he chose to be in Cat 1. These are the USAC rules. If you don't like them, petition USAC.
R
rb92078
Guest
Everyone has to go through the ranks... When Aaron Gwin wanted to race he did some expert races. Plus, mentally if you crush it in expert (even if its 2 races) your confidence will drive into the pro categories and you will most likely do better. At this point you need hrs on the DH bike. Whether its shuttling with your hommies, doing some freelap timer races in your back yard, expert DH races, or whatever. Take what you can get at this point cause if your looking at this for a potential career, its going to be a lot of work and hrs in the saddle no matter what. The ending point is all the same which is to compete on the World cup. Don't stress on the in between ****.
There aren't too many flukes when racing real courses in normal conditions with lots of racers.
It will take a few races (or maybe one) to convince USAC, but to answer the question - he should be racing pro.
Exactly. I'm not arguing whether or not he should be in pro, but there are rules in place by the race governing body that prevent him from just jumping headfirst into pro. If he deserves to be in pro (which I suspect he does), he will have a very brief stay in Cat 1.
Those are still races that other people are paying and taking time and effort to attend. It's still amateur racing no matter how you look at it. Even the pro class is "amateur". Only a vast minority of people in that field are receiving anything beyond discounts on parts. I don't call that a profession, and neither do most of the racers really. But whatever...
Sure he can work his way up. But count the number of pissed of expert class racers who are going to feel cheated by the racing organization for allowing ultra fast dudes to race in their class, whether or not he's actually sandbagging, then count the number of pro riders who are going to be pissed off if he's whipping all but a couple of them anyway. That's already the highest level of competition he could attain locally, so they'd have nothing to bitch about really. He's just faster (and yes, the guy really IS that fast...).
I think all these "sub-classes" are stupid anyway. They need it set up euro-style. Amateur/elite, mens/womens, junior/senior.
Edit: you fvcking tool.
if you ask me, anyone who wants to race pro should. At least down here, you have to be over the age of 18, get a liscence with the UCI, and your set. Its up to everyone to decide what class they race on
I always considered the mindset of bitching about sandbaggers to be very lazy. You complain because someone beat you that should have been racing in the class above you. Wake up and look at the whole picture you did not win, you did not even come close to winning. A whole other class or classes beat you at the race. I always compared my times with everyone running the course not just my class. But this is America and we need everyone to go home with a warm fuzzy feeling so we give out awards to the "winners" of multiple classes.
I am jealous of zacks trails from watching that video. It makes me want to ride giant trails.
The season before last at the willamette pass series in oregon. The dude that was winning expert was also beating the pros. I believe that is sandbagging. He didnt want to step up cause he didnt want to pay more money.
If problems like this persist with a particular racer, I believe USAC can choose to suspend a racers license at their discretion.
And Gordon, there's always going to be a racer that wins, and many more racers who don't win. By your logic, people should only enter races if they know they are guaranteed to win. They still spend their time, effort, and money to attend and enter race, even though there are pretty slim odds of winning a race. If everyone followed your train of thought, the only people entering WC races would be Hannah, Peat, Hill, Rennie, Minaar, Atherton, and Barel.
While I do agree that all the sub-classes are excessive, don't forget that the majority racers out there don't do it just for a paycheck. They do it because they love doing it.
such sick riding in that video! blastmaster5000!
what are you guys arguing about again?
what are you guys arguing about again?
I think it should be done ralphie may style....
"Ahhhhhhhhhahaha, your mom don't like you. You aint aint got no helmet. Ahhhhhhhhhahaha."
I feel this is wrong that you have to "prove" yourself to the comission in order to be "allowed" to race pro. As many have said, it should be up to the athlete to decide what class he races in. I now I race in expert. Some of my friends say I've been around for so long and I ride well, so I should race pro or as we call it "elite", but I dont feel up to it, plus I put less than half the time on my bike as the "elite" do. So really, if he wants to race pro, let him. All in all, its more money to the sports, and he has only himself to blame if he doesnt perform as he wants or if he outperforms a lot of other riders. To be honest, Im real supprised that there is such a discussion, and on top, that you have to meet certain requirements to race on the "pro" class. Its not like's he's going to be RC, jumping into Nasscar and crashing everyone, thus becoming a danger not only to himself but to others. I see no harm in him running pro class. Ohh, and to all those pro's that have had to work there way up... well sucks for you, but in all fairness, it shouldnt have to be like that from the start, if your fast, run with the fast boys, if your slower, bump down a class, the clock doesnt lie, your old enough to decide where your place is.
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you know alloy, if he really wants to be a pro he would be eating more free continental breakies to save $ for his licence! hahaha
It's clear the harm letting a "pro" level riding in "expert". But why does the USAC get their panties in a bunch for people wanting to ride "pro". The situation would sort itself out quickly if they were racing in a class beyond their ability. It's not like experts race easier tracks than pros anyways.
one step at a time here my friend, Racing pro is one thing but continental in the morning is whole other ball game.
If the USAC handed out Pro licenses like they were prophylactics, they'd be spending a ton of their time down grading a bunch of muppets to cat 1. Not only that, I'm sure somewhere along the lines someone would seriously injured, because they'd be racing on a course that was above their skill level. And here in the states, the sad reality is that too many people are lawsuit happy, and I could just picture some muppet's parent arguing "well, why did you give my son a pro license and let him race this dangerous race course?!"
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All you have to do is look at the mess during cat 1 practice to begin to realize why letting everyone race pro if they want is a bad idea.
Every significant obstacle becomes a traffic jam, riders stopping in the trail, standing in they way, etc., etc.
Also there is a lack of respect for fellow racers in the cat 1 practice that you just don't see when the pros practice.
As well as learning how to ride the bike, there is learning the proper edict and respect for your fellow racers that needs to happen.
Couple this with not being able to get clean practice runs, much less race runs, and you are doing a disservice to actual pro riders.
As far as there being too many am classes, I don't agree. I know a fair number of riders who like to ride and race, but will never be pro or even close. They have a group of riders they race competitively with, they all push each other and have a good time doing so.
Doesn't matter if they are racing beginner or jrx, they are competing, racing, improving, and having fun. It is more encouraging for them to (for example) win a sport class race than to finish 90th out of 112 riders.
Don't forget that if the lower classes don't have fun a lot of them won't have much interest in continuing to race. Not much future in that, a few racers start out near the top level but most work their way up.
Just my opinion, formed from years of racing.
Have a qualifying run early Saturday?
That eliminates a practice day, or would push it to a weekday, which many people simply can't do. The majority of the racers I know have day jobs, so weekends are really the only option.
Translation:
I doubt he's good enough, and if he is, I'm jealous. So I have to slag him and feel victimized.
Dude, how in phoque do you imagine it has to do with "proving you deserve to be in" a class?
If your reason for racing Pro is to "prove you deserve to be a pro," then you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
Classes should be about race times, not about "paying dues." "Paying dues" has just been pasted onto this discussion without question, assuming that it means something here. It means nothing. Nobody has to "pay dues." What they have to do is be fast enough. Nothing more.
The reason for classes is not bragging rights. It's to weed out the slower riders who would be course obstacles, and to determine which courses riders should be on. Nothing more.
You should figure out what racing's about. It's about racing each other on bikes. It's not about "paying dues."
i heard that anyone on the pro course at solvista who skids up a jump lip is gonna get fined $50 and their number plate taken.
don't know if it's true though.
remember how sick that jumping video was at the start of this thread? so rad!
don't know if it's true though.
remember how sick that jumping video was at the start of this thread? so rad!
That's the spirit! More watching sic reel less hate. The guy has skilz and he obviously has enough time on a bike to know not to stand around in the way (but that's not really the issue). Good luck to him. I hope he kills it.
Wow, you're making a lot of absurd assumptions here.
I don't doubt that he's fast enough to be in pro, and in fact I've already stated that elsewhere in this thread. But there are rules in place regarding classes, licenses, etc that all other racers have to follow. And this guy will have to follow them too if he wants to race in USAC (or any other race governing body) sanctioned races.
I'm not slagging him, nor am I jealous at all. Where in this thread have I insulted him? The only place I can possibly think of is when I stated he was not a unique and special snowflake - and that was just a reference to a movie for those who got it.
I don't doubt that he's fast enough to be in pro, and in fact I've already stated that elsewhere in this thread. But there are rules in place regarding classes, licenses, etc that all other racers have to follow. And this guy will have to follow them too if he wants to race in USAC (or any other race governing body) sanctioned races.
Hypothetically speaking, his third place finish could have been a fluke. It could have been raining, everyone else fell, and he was one of the few that didn't. He could have had an amazing day, or just been super dialed on that particular course and knew it like the back of his hand, and everyone else had a sh*tty day. The point I have been trying to convey through this entire thread is that one single race result is not substantial enough to determine class placement. The USAC rules seem to reflect that (I've posted them in the thread elsewhere as well, but here's a link to their rules: http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=4220 The rules regarding classes are section 1C, and section 1D covers license upgrades).
]If you're already in pro class, you've already proven that have abilities and the speed to be racing against the fastest racers out there. If you're in cat 1 and want to move to pro, then you need to prove you are skilled enough to move up a category and race against the fastest riders, and ride the toughest tracks.
When I use the term "paying dues", I'm more referring to having to follow the rules and move up the classification system via the rules that are in place. All other racers have to do it, so why is this guy special? If he's fast enough to be in pro (which is likely the case, as I've already stated), even by following USAC rules he will have to do two races in Cat 1 to earn his pro license (again, information I've already stated).
Exactly. And the reasons for rules regarding class (and subsequently license) upgrades is to prevent sandbagging (ie weeding out faster riders and forcing them to move up so that they are racing against riders who are at equivalent skill levels). Some people may argue that these rules are too lax, but I believe they are set up in the structure they are to prevent class/license upgrades where they are not truly deserved. Refer to my example about a rider having a great day and everyone else having an off day.
But you still have to pay entry fees
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U.S. open seems to be able to do it just fine.......And they have way more racers than any other race in the country, WAY more, in every class.
Have it Early Saturday morning. How much practice do you need? 2-3 hours a day should be enough. From what I can tell, REAL pros do maybe 5-6 practice runs for a given race.
I guess I was referring more to series races, where they have the races once a month, as opposed to larger events like the US Open and Nat'l Champs. Here on the east coast, its not hard to do 2 or 3 series races in a month - which for a number of people would be difficult to do a 3 day race weekend that frequently.
The US Open also has more racers in every class because they have fewer classes. But yes, it has higher attendance than most races.
I would have to disagree with that whole statement. For the other classes...1,2,3 you should be able to race what you feel is best for you. Honestly, you should only be able to race Pro if you have good enough results in Cat. 1.
There are quite a bit of Pro racers that I've seen that are quite frankly, not up to par. Even at a race like in Angel Fire I consistantly had to slow down because of catching other riders in practice. No, I'm not that great at all but still...if you are racing Pro, ALL your skills technical and non-technical skills better be up to par.
On that note as well. Just because your friend raced Pro motocross does not mean that all the skills instantly transfer over. I race Pro DH and only some of those skills transfered over when I started riding moto. You can be an excelent jumper and an average racer, look at Cowan...he's amazing with DJ's and I've ridden DH with him a few times and he's pretty good at that too, just not the best racer.
Tell him to race Cat. 1 for a few races and if he's as good as you say then he'll be moved up after a few races.
I could understand this whole "classes" bull**** if they had different courses for each class that were catered to those skill levels. They usually don't, so everyone is racing the same course and is doing the SAME RACE. At the end of the day, there's only one winner that way. I guess people just need some ego stroking to say they won "something" and the pro riders can feel like they've earned their place even if they're midpack or come in DFL.
At best we see a sport/expert course division at a race - AMATEUR/ELITE. That's all it is. Two different races, two different categories. One race, one category.
At best we see a sport/expert course division at a race - AMATEUR/ELITE. That's all it is. Two different races, two different categories. One race, one category.
Still no video of this guy riding dh?
bah.
bah.
Wow. Eliot is a good friend of mine. Our trails (and his that were recently plowed 
) are in that vid.
I think Mark stated this, but this has nothing to do with him being on a "high horse" or having an ego. He is one of the nicest and most humble people you will ever meet. He is also one of the most natural bike riders I have ever seen. I had been telling him he should take DH seriously for awhile... I knew he'd be good at it with his bmx and moto background. It's cool that he finally is.
I don't understand the DHing system at all, but to me, it seems like if you're fast enough to race with the pros, then you should be allowed to race as a pro. Don't they have qualifying at the races? If you're not fast enough, you don't qualify, right? Seems simple to me.
However it turns out, I know he will end up doing well. Eliot Jackson FTW!!
) are in that vid. I think Mark stated this, but this has nothing to do with him being on a "high horse" or having an ego. He is one of the nicest and most humble people you will ever meet. He is also one of the most natural bike riders I have ever seen. I had been telling him he should take DH seriously for awhile... I knew he'd be good at it with his bmx and moto background. It's cool that he finally is.
I don't understand the DHing system at all, but to me, it seems like if you're fast enough to race with the pros, then you should be allowed to race as a pro. Don't they have qualifying at the races? If you're not fast enough, you don't qualify, right? Seems simple to me.
However it turns out, I know he will end up doing well. Eliot Jackson FTW!!
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The majority of races, no, there is no qualifying.