Done with my Zee brakeset.. whats next?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by TrumbullHucker, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. TrumbullHucker

    TrumbullHucker trumbullruxer

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    tired of pumping up my brakes before a decent ( and love LOVE when the levers go to my handlebars during a decent )

    This is after multiple bleeds throughout the years... feels great after bleed but a week later they are back to shit

    Codes? TRPs?

    Not looking to spend over 500$
     

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  2. chris_f

    chris_f Chimp

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    Hope V4s are very robust and rebuildable if you can live with less power than you get from the Zees.
     
  3. TrumbullHucker

    TrumbullHucker trumbullruxer

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    How are they for bleeding? I thought the Zees were pretty easy to bleed
     
  4. 6thElement

    6thElement Turbo Monkey

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    Are the Cura's strong enough for a DH brake? I don't think the 4-pot version is out yet...
     
  5. slyfink

    slyfink Turbo Monkey

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  6. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

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    cake. fill mc, open bleeder, pull lever, close bleeder. repeat.
     
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  7. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I've been using cura calipers on my dh bike. The heat management could be better, but no problems so far. That said when the quad versions come out, that's what I'll be replacing the curas with.
     
  8. ZHendo

    ZHendo Turbo Monkey

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    I really like my Codes so far, running them on both the trail bike and DH bike. I still don't love working with DOT fluid, but the Bleeding Edge fittings that SRAM has come up with are pretty fantastic...if only they would put one on the lever too.
     
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  9. Loki87

    Loki87 Chimp

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    3 years on Magura MT7 without one issue whatsoever. My MT5 i had to quick bleed twice to get them working properly, seemed like they haven´t been bled at all from the factory, but since then no problems either. Pads last for a long time and they have braking power for days. The levers are nothing to write home about, but the new HC3 levers look promising and apparently MT7 now come standard with HC3 levers.
    If you hate the Magura levers, maybe just get MT5 calipers with some Trickstuff Diretissima levers for extra style points?
     
  10. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    Pretty easy and seldom needed. Shimanos bleed easier, but only juuust. Grab some V4s.
     
  11. maxyedor

    maxyedor <b>TOOL PRO</b>

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    You have a set of Zees, I would grab a set of MT5s from one of the German vendors and Frankenbrake the situation. That or Hopes if you don’t mind the extra cost
     
  12. 6thElement

    6thElement Turbo Monkey

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  13. Electric_City

    Electric_City The orangutans are loose!

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    Hope V4's.
     
  14. buckoW

    buckoW Turbo Monkey

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    Hope V4
     
  15. Da Peach

    Da Peach Outwitted by a rodent

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    It's been a Shimano kind of night
     
  16. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

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    Details? Benefits? I'm assuming you're swapping out the levers?
     
  17. Happymtb.fr

    Happymtb.fr Monkey

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    I wouldn't do that with his current levers since they are most probably in bad condition... you know, the master seal wearing down the non anodized part of the master cylinder in typical Shimano fashion.
     
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  18. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    I'm throwing in a Formula ROR. Did the swap a few weeks ago and will not look back.
     
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  19. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

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    Went Hope, and not looking back,

    Would look at Formula, TRP and Directissima (sp?) pretty closely as well.

    Magura is interesting - I still have some late gen Louise - great brake for trailbikes.
    Problem with magura is getting parts, they seem not to keep them in stock long, ie Louise adjustment knobs - the shitty little plastic things that break easily in a mild crash but are impossible to find. On the other hand, never have to bleed, and they are consistent. Almost went with MT7, but the lever sucked, requiring buying the newly released 2 finger blades, carbon infused plastic parts, they were more money than the V4's without the new blades, and was worried about possible parts issue in a few years.

    Shimano and Avid; at this point nope.

    My last brake change...
    I replaced my quad XO Trails with the V4's on the big bike with the Trails moving down to the trail bike.
    They are nice brakes with decent power and a nice feel but with a couple of caveats.
    1. Bitch to get a good bleed.
    2. Inconsistent bite-point during the ride, and they always seem to need an adjustment at the beginning of a ride. They never seem to stay in one place long, they like to wander. Lost confidence in them for the big bike after a couple of times i needed them, but they seemed to be on walk-about. So far for the trail bike, they seem to be ok.

    V4's.
    More power with good feel.
    Consistent during a ride, never a scary moment.
    Content to stay at home, never seem to feel the need to wander around.
    Super simple to bleed.
    Quality feel, ie every click is a nice firm click with a noticeable adjustment.
    Awesome to look at ( tool-room machinist in another life, so :drool:)


    Take this with a grain of salt, as I tend to keep and run parts much longer than what seems normal.
    (ie, I just went to 10 speed on both of my most ridden bikes last year)
    So spares availability is important.:wave:
     
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  20. Bike078

    Bike078 Monkey

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    Put my 10 yr old slx m665 rear brake back on my bike and it still works fine. My newer m615 was having problems. Front brake is still ok though. When will shimano solve their brake problems?
     
  21. 6thElement

    6thElement Turbo Monkey

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    I'm on some Formula RO's that are ~4 years old, no complaints other than I wish I could get the reach a little further in on the levers. I think the design has changed since mine though.
     
  22. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

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    I'm running 10 year old Formula The Ones on 2 bikes. I too gave up on Shimanos. If I could still get parts (i.e. lever blades) I'd be very content. As it is I'm running them until I have a mechanical I can't fix, then will probably look at the Cura or check out Magura. I had some Maguras years ago and I thought they were ugly, but the exceeded my expectations.
     
  23. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    Yes, they changed the lever around 2016 with the introduction of the RO Racing to the pull MC design. Levers can be set as close to the bars as you like now, which I find very good as well.

    I also have a set of the first gen The One. Still a very solid brake, but a bit lacking in power compared to today's offerings.
     
  24. Nick

    Nick My name is Nick

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    I loved my The Ones brakes, aside from the infrequent bleed process. Used them for years, then sold them to stoney who still uses them on his trail bike. I recently snagged a pair of the new Curas just to check out.
     
  25. TrumbullHucker

    TrumbullHucker trumbullruxer

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    Code R/ RSCs ?

    Hope E4s? guess they are the enduro type braking with smaller brake pads

    ill check out Forumulas

    the checkout price of full v4 set hurts my current $ problems


    edit: this is for my DH park bike
     
  26. Da Peach

    Da Peach Outwitted by a rodent

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    Saints have worked well...
     
  27. chris_f

    chris_f Chimp

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    I picked up a set of Magura MT7 Danny Macaskills over the winter, against the express advice of about 50% of this forum. Still haven't had the chance to try them properly, just a short ride on the tail end of a trail that didn't have snow on it. I like the ergonomics on them, but I'm unable to comment on the actual power. Seemed good but they weren't bedded in and the trail wasn't steep enough for me to learn much of value about them.

    It's on a DH bike, just to be clear.
     
  28. 6thElement

    6thElement Turbo Monkey

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    Check the UK stores if you decide you want the Hope V4's.
    Formula's check Universal and use their 15% coupon.
     
  29. djjohnr

    djjohnr Turbo Monkey

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    I've been running MT5s on both my trail and DH/FR bikes over the past 3 seasons. Braking power is great. Modulation is great (some people don't prefer this). I very rarely need to bleed them, and when I do it's easy. I like the lever design - I run the sides of my palms off the ends of my bars no matter the bar width, so the longer blades mean I don't have to angle my index finger in-board like with Shimanos or Guides which lessens arm pump. If I destroy a lever replacements are cheap. Only issue is I go through pads quickly.
     
    #29 -   Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  30. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

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    When I got my V4's I checked multiple stores in the UK and Germany.
    UK was the best pricing at the time.
    I ended up getting them from Evans cycle on a price-match from Ubyk.
    235 pounds delivered to Canukistan for the pair ( no rotors), but that was about 18 months ago now.
    Anybody on this side of the pond was hundreds more.
     
  31. 6thElement

    6thElement Turbo Monkey

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  32. PJivan

    PJivan Monkey

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    Friend of mine have the 2 piston cura on his freeride bike, can't direct compare them with the hope V4 but they are waaaay better than my Guide RS, plus the fact the you can disconnect them without having to bleed them it's a phenomenal feature for internal routing frames, they don't always make great brakes, but when they do...
     
  33. TrumbullHucker

    TrumbullHucker trumbullruxer

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    R or RSC?
     
  34. ZHendo

    ZHendo Turbo Monkey

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    RSC. There are more differences between the two brakes than meets the eye...aside from adjustment differences, the RSC has a different lever linkage and ceramic pistons, versus aluminum pistons in the R. The brakes are damn expensive at retail but you can find some on eBay and the like for a steal, as some people are pulling them off brand new bikes as take-offs.
     
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  35. twenty666

    twenty666 Chimp

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    If you like lots of power early in the stroke you likely won't care for v4's. Real power comes on late in the stroke and they are weaker than z's across the board. v4's have a very soft engagement. This provides the best modulation I've experienced but when you're used to z's the v4 can feel funky at first. The power is there, but you have to pull the lever further than you think to get at it. The lever also has a lot of spring to it so riding brakes wears me out more than z's. I can see some people loving v4's over z, or vise versa. Really can't say one is better than the other in regards to performance because they are polar opposites. I haven't owed v4's long enough to comment on bleed intervals/consistency. Like you, my z's have been tough to maintain lever feel. That's why I bought v4's.

    I'm still one the fence over whether I prefer the bull in a china shop power of z's, or the precision seal team six modulation of the v4's. If the v4's had better initial bite and less rebound force in the lever it would be an easy choice. I'll play with pads to see if I can dial them in to my taste, because I'm tired of bleeding my z's.
     
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  36. ZHendo

    ZHendo Turbo Monkey

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    I had Hope E4s for a fair bit, and I think the ultra-soft engagement is common across all of their brakes. It's honestly so different than other brakes (Shimano, Formula, even SRAM) that I scared the shit out of myself a few times when I first got the brakes because I expected power to come on sooner. I wish they would beef up the amount of power delivered early in the stroke, because general modulation is absolutely awesome on those brakes, but it takes a while to get used to them.

    One caveat is that after a year and a half on my E4s, I had really bad issues with pistons sticking on both the front and rear brakes. Not only was pad contact inconsistent, but the pistons wouldn't roll back properly and I'd get savage brake rub part way through rides. I ended up disassembling and rebuilding the whole system with new lever and caliper seals, but it was kind of a pain and the piston sticking issues came on a lot faster than with other brakes that I've had.
     
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  37. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    I can sum up the brake thread in a few dot points if it helps:

    - Most brakes have a lot of issues, especially riding regularly under DH / lift-accessed conditions
    - It's easy to build a somewhat consistent brake with shorter throw if you sacrifice braking force
    - It's easy to build a brake that has high braking force but has long throw and is riddled with issues
    - You DO have to spend a LOT of money to confidently escape the problems while also having high braking force

    Hope V4s are DEFINITELY not without their flaws, I can say that much.
    However, I strongly think they're the closest thing you'll get to fixing the problems you've listed remotely close to the budget you've specified. Basically, I think you should wait / save / shop around / do whatever you have to do to get them.

    The V4 has less peak braking force than the Zee, so don't even bother with the E4.
     
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  38. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    FTFY. :D
     
  39. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    Oh yeah the Hopes are not without issue - a little less lever throw would be nice and the ultimately a bit quicker bite as well. The power delivery is more gradual than almost everyone else, but it works when you're used to it. I'm guessing coming from the UK they're catering to off-camber muddy sections with their gradual brake force thing? Who knows. First ride I was underwhelmed and thinking they were under-powered. Then I panic braked and grabbed a handful of brake and nearly flipped myself.

    Given the muddy UK rubbish I just spouted, I'm surprised the caliper and lever bodies have so many machined nooks and crannies to fill up with shite as well. That aside, they're definitely consistent and trouble-free which puts them ahead of the Shimano and SRAM offerings out there.

    Not sure if its a major issue elsewhere, but here in Aussie heat, the SRAM master pistons bind a hell of a lot and don't let the pistons retract. And shimano is great if you like playing hide-and-seek with your brake engagement point. Formulas are a prohibitively expensive gamble, but people that have them seem to rate them. Magura has the crappiest levers I've seen but work well from my test rides on mate's bikes.
     
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  40. jackalope

    jackalope Mental acuity - 1%

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    I've been running the TRP Quadiems for several months now, and they've been the best set of brakes I've ever used (have run numerous sets of various Shimano models previously). Switched the stock pads to metals, and now that everything is bedded in, they're aces. Maybe a shade less powerful than Zees, but pretty damn close imo and much better modulation. Lever ergonomics are good, but may not be the best option if you have small, Trumpian bitch hands.

    Not sure about long durability , but so far they've been flawless other than the incident when my daughter managed to somehow pull the hose out of the lever. I was pretty stoked about that discovery. :twitch:
     
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