Drug legalization

BMXman · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by El Jefe
John Stossel did a really interesting piece on the decriminalization of drugs tonight. I'm just curious as to people's stance on drug use and legalization.

For me, I choose not to use illegal drugs. Not because they are illegal, but because I don't want to take the risk of hard drugs, and when I tried pot it just made me cough...and I hate smoking anyway.

I don't want the pilot flying me in a plane, or a cop on patrol to be drunk, stoned or tweaking, but if they want to use on their own time, I'm fine with that. I say tax the hell out of drugs like the government does alcohol and gasoline, and the national debt will shrink like George Costanza's weenie in cold water.

I say legalize them all....It helps to control the population:devil: :dead:

Evan · Jul 31, 2002

I have never done any drug. I would have no problem with them being legal if people just sat around their homes while they were under the influence, but we all know that isn't going to happen. I just think that legalizing them all would cause more harm than help.

What I don't understand is why you can drink yourself to death yet you can't have one puff from a marijuana cigarette.

northshorerat · Jul 31, 2002

if the US would just follow suit with the brits. i think it would make a major difference. dont legalize pot, but make it a lesser offence. much like public intoxication. put the enforcement into the hands of the officers and let them decide what to do with it. kinda like when you deal with minors and beer. small amounts you let them go. case upon case plus an attitude to boot and you are going to spend the night in lockup with the drunks.

Mr. ShockWave · Jul 31, 2002

I posted no drug use and no legalisation

by experiance :dead:

Flyin' Polack · Jul 31, 2002

The crime rate in Amsterdam is about .0002%
Nuff Said....

The Toninator · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by seanaza
The crime rate in Amsterdam is about .0002%
Nuff Said....

I would like to see proof of that number and please define what that is a percentage of.

The Toninator · Jul 31, 2002

drugs are bad mmmkay

Phlavorman · Jul 31, 2002

Legal or not, people are still going to do them. I think that anyone who has smoked pot at one time or another would agree thry would rather see a stoned person behind the wheel of a car than someone who is drunk. People make more poor and violent choices while drunk than stoned anyways.

Tax the hell out of them, make some profit people will do it no matter what. Alchol is legal, some people drink socially, some abuse it, some don't drink it all. Same will go with drugs, some will use it socially, some will abuse, most will chose not to use it. Legalize it, ticket the abusers who decide to drive or incapacitateed by it, just like DUI, DWI's.

Crime rates will drop, prison systems will be less full. No more people serving 5 years because of possession of Marijuana. No more drug deals gone bad and inocent bystanders getting shot. No more parents not talking about it with there children hoping they will never find out or be exposed to it.

The average cost of a prisoner per a year is $20,000-$30,000 in the US.

Do you think it is worth paying $100,000-$150,000 in tax dollars to send a person to prison for possession of pot for 5 years. Also the people they met and the coruption that happens in prisons, most of them are worth less to society after prison than before. Most of them will have dificulty get a decent job due to there criminal report and are forced to go back and do something illegal to even make a living.

Legalize it, tax it, watch prison population drop and tax revenues grow. It is a win win situation.

Phlavorman · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by Mr. ShockWave
I posted no drug use and no legalisation

by experiance

You said by experience, meaning even though it was illegal you still did it or new someone who did it. So legal or not it would have been done, atleast if it was legal it could have been checked for quality, purity. It could have been taxed. It could have been bought/sold in a safer more secure place(i.e. local convenience store).

I do not do drugs, I do not drink, I do not smoke, but I do believe we would be better off legalizing drugs.

ohio · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by Phlavorman

You said by experience, meaning even though it was illegal you still did it or new someone who did it. So legal or not it would have been done, atleast if it was legal it could have been checked for quality, purity. It could have been taxed. It could have been bought/sold in a safer more secure place(i.e. local convenience store).

I do not do drugs, I do not drink, I do not smoke, but I do believe we would be better off legalizing drugs.

He meant "legalisation by experience" not "drug use by experience", in that he lives in a country where marijauna is effectively (officially?) legal , and is not the success we sometimes make it out to be. Not sure if I agree with him, but wanted to clarify that point.

The Toninator · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by Phlavorman
Legal or not, people are still going to do them. I think that anyone who has smoked pot at one time or another would agree thry would rather see a stoned person behind the wheel of a car than someone who is drunk. People make more poor and violent choices while drunk than stoned anyways.

people are killing people why not make that legal.
I've smoked pot and i dont not agree.
and people make poor and violent choices while stoned and on the heaver drugs more often than drunks.

Phlavorman · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

and people make poor and violent choices while stoned and on the heaver drugs more often than drunks.

I disagree I know of more fights more overly emotional mistakes, accidents, fights, and crimes because of drunk people.

Most people who smoke pot, that I know, don't cause to many problems. The have heard of very few people getting in car accidents due to being stoned, I have heard of very few people beating there children or wife because they were stoned, I have heard of very few people getting into fist fights because they were stoned. Yet, I know of numerous occassions of drunk people cause serious problems in those three arenas, and that is just a few of them. Of course the problem is I am genralizing by saying people who drink crash cars and beat there wives. At the same society generalizes by thinking pot heads are lazy and contribute nothing but trouble to society. That is unfair and not true, yes there are some "stoners" who are worthless there are also alot of "drunks" that are worthless. I am just stating that I believe someone who is stoned can make better decisions than someone who is drunk. Also when was the last time you heard of someone dieing from smoking to much pot. Wish I could say the same about people getting to drunk. Or for that matter, how many people have had deaths attributed to smoking to much pot, where as alchol people get heart and liver disease just to mention a few of the many troubles.

As for people are going to kill people anyways might aswell legalize it, that is an ignorant response because that is effecting someone elses well being on purpose where as drug use is only effecting your own personal well being. It is expected that it may also effect other people, but how many people have you heard say,"lets go out, get trashed and run someone over with my car", that is an acident that should be severly punished, where as murdering someone is a direct choice.

The Toninator · Jul 31, 2002

Phlavorman i dont think you read my statement correctly. I didnt say being Pot high was worse than drunk. I merely stated that the same things happen while drunk that happens while pot high. Also if you will notice i did draw a line between the two, pot high and heavy drug high.
Also you keep comparing the side effects of pot to alcohol. I dont really get the comparison but do you want to make alcohol illegal too? I'm down with that.

Phlavorman · Jul 31, 2002

Not at all I am not trying to say make alcohol illegal, I am saying that alchol is allready legal and the side-affects, aftermath of alchol is much worse than pot. So if you think alcohol should be legal so should pot.

This is just one my arguments of why all drugs should be legal.

The Toninator · Jul 31, 2002

great great. then we're on the same page. Ban the bottle.

Mr. ShockWave · Jul 31, 2002

Originally posted by ohio

He meant "legalisation by experience" not "drug use by experience", in that he lives in a country where marijauna is effectively (officially?) legal , and is not the success we sometimes make it out to be. Not sure if I agree with him, but wanted to clarify that point.

stimmt, I never used it and never will, and the soft drugs is legal for just small portions, but still we are worldleader in the production, exportation and quality of XTC

Skookum · Jul 31, 2002

On the 21's of July I celebrated 10 years of being clean and sober. I'm proud of the fact the I quit drugs and alcohol at the age of 21. Trust me when i say i almost did it all, and if i had not of changed my lifestyle, I know for a fact I'd be dead or in prison. Now i'm a bikaholic.
Strangely enough I do think drugs should be legalized. Simply because the fact that they are criminalized is an insult to our freedom of choice. If they were legal I still would have nothing to do with them. I have abstained from alcohol, and have parted ways with nicotine for over four years now. People however believe that if they became legal there would be droves of addicts all over the streets. Ask yourself honestly if you do not use, would you go to the store and smoke crack if it became legal. Of course not.
Now for people who do use, I believe their will be resources to help people who suffer from addiction, possibly even more of them since govt money could be funnelled to treatment centers etc. instead of prisons. I don't believe that addicts should expect to have it easy, I know that businesses will still test and require employees to abstain. And any irresponsible, and/or criminal behavior that stems from addiction should be punished just the same as it is now. In other word, legalization would not be a free pass to be a junkie/criminal idiot.
Casual users nothing would change, except for the fact that what your doing now is not illegal.
Now for my main belief of why it will never come to pass that drugs are made legal ever???????(though I know there are many more) Money.....
Our tax dollars go to support our fight against drugs, but we also sustain a large section of peoples livelihoods. Judges, Lawyers, Police officers, Govt. Jobs, Prison Employees, DEA, Politicians. Alot of people would find themselves in the unemployment line if this ever came to pass. To summarize the people might benefit financially but the government certainly would not.
O and pot smokers yes you are just as dangerous and and in some ways even more annoying than drinkers, just in a more sublte sublime way. Hehe just hadda throw that in there pot heads are so sensitive y'know.

Mr. ShockWave · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by Skookum
On the 21's of July I celebrated 10 years of being clean and sober. I'm proud of the fact the I quit drugs and alcohol at the age of 21. Trust me when i say i almost did it all, and if i had not of changed my lifestyle, I know for a fact I'd be dead or in prison. Now i'm a bikaholic.
Strangely enough I do think drugs should be legalized. Simply because the fact that they are criminalized is an insult to our freedom of choice. If they were legal I still would have nothing to do with them. I have abstained from alcohol, and have parted ways with nicotine for over four years now. People however believe that if they became legal there would be droves of addicts all over the streets. Ask yourself honestly if you do not use, would you go to the store and smoke crack if it became legal. Of course not.
Now for people who do use, I believe their will be resources to help people who suffer from addiction, possibly even more of them since govt money could be funnelled to treatment centers etc. instead of prisons. I don't believe that addicts should expect to have it easy, I know that businesses will still test and require employees to abstain. And any irresponsible, and/or criminal behavior that stems from addiction should be punished just the same as it is now. In other word, legalization would not be a free pass to be a junkie/criminal idiot.
Casual users nothing would change, except for the fact that what your doing now is not illegal.
Now for my main belief of why it will never come to pass that drugs are made legal ever???????(though I know there are many more) Money.....
Our tax dollars go to support our fight against drugs, but we also sustain a large section of peoples livelihoods. Judges, Lawyers, Police officers, Govt. Jobs, Prison Employees, DEA, Politicians. Alot of people would find themselves in the unemployment line if this ever came to pass. To summarize the people might benefit financially but the government certainly would not.
O and pot smokers yes you are just as dangerous and and in some ways even more annoying than drinkers, just in a more sublte sublime way. Hehe just hadda throw that in there pot heads are so sensitive y'know.

Glad you quit it, and a good constructive post, althow i do not agree on legalisation, because there will be an increase of users, not that everybody will start running to the first dealer they can find on the block, but there will be an increase, and especially in the teenagers and people around their 20's will start using it.

Also the increase of treatment centers has to start yet, next to that there is still an increase in prisoncells they are building.
Also the law here is to soft, you can get something between 6 months(will be out in 4 months on good behavior) till a few years(whereas 3 years prison will mean more like about 2 years on good behavior), I know the law is much harder in the states, but that has not stopped them now.

Next to that how much do you like to be legalised, and what would be the rules to work with for them, eather way the rules will walked over by 5 mileboots.

glad we could be the pilot for legalizing drug :dead:

laura · Aug 1, 2002

25% of inmate in jails are in jail because of some kind of drug conviction. us dept of justice, dept. of statistics

since 1989 the number of drug offenders sentenced to prison exceeds the number of violent comitments every year. us dept of justice, dept. of statistics.

in 1998 the police arrested 682,885 people on marajuana charges, more than the arrests of violent crimes combined including rape, murder, robbery, and agravated assault. DOJ, dept. of statisics.

1 in 7 prisoners in jail for pot. doj, dpt of statistics.

tell me why some person selling weed, coke, or crack on a corner in his neighborhood should have to go to jail. him going to jail isnt taking any of the drug use out of his neighborhood. and he most likely wont be reformed when he gets out of jail.

it is a futile war and a waste of money. there is constant overcrowding in jails and people in on murder, rape, assault chardges are getting sentences cut in half because they need to move them on through.

they arrest the little guy to fill their quotas and then they let them back on the street to start the cycle all over again.

its just a game.

robsta · Aug 1, 2002

Legalize the Herb for personal use if your over 21 yrs.
Then pardon all of the non-voilent pot offenders. Clean out some space in the DoC, we already pay more than enough taxes. The other drugs seem to cause many more social problems, the herb just makes you a little....huh?
But I think that the person using has a lot to do with it. If you some pot and it makes you truly disfunctional then maybe you should touch it. That includes drinking also.

kitchenware · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

people are killing people why not make that legal.
I've smoked pot and i dont not agree.
and people make poor and violent choices while stoned and on the heaver drugs more often than drunks.

That's the funniest post I've ever read here!

Pot smokers more violent than drunks? Come on, wake up.

jim

The Toninator · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by kitchenware

That's the funniest post I've ever read here!

Pot smokers more violent than drunks? Come on, wake up.

jim

It does NOT say that, < edit rude comments > acquire some cognitive skills.

kitchenware · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

It does NOT say that, < edit rude comments > acquire some cognitive skills.

Acquire some writing skills first.

The Toninator · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by kitchenware

Acquire some writing skills first.

R e T ar d.:"!@1

kitchenware · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

R e T ar d.:"!@1

I'm quite sure 99 Helens would agree that your post was written very poorly if that's what you were trying to convey. Go back, edit it, and start all over.

Thanks for playing.

jim

mr_dove · Aug 1, 2002

The majority of my opinion comes from an economics point of view, being an economics graduate.

Supply and demand is VERY powerful. We can see that clearly from the current drug situation. Our war on drugs has only suceeded in making drugs more expensive. They are NOT harder to get and we are not safer from drugs in any way. By making drugs more expensive, we also make it more profitable. We make it possible for drug dealers to become millionaires. Your corner thug can make hundreds of thousands just dealing on a corner. Arresting drug sellers does not deter them. The financial incentive is more powerful than the chance of going to jail.

By legalizing some drugs, we take away the money factor. If drugs are not profitable, the drug trade goes away. If you could grow pot in your basement, there's no need for dealers to get in a shootout over it. There's no need for addicts to steal or mug for drug money, because it's affordable.

I think that there might be a slight increase in actual use, but the tradeoff would be a huge decrease in the crime rate and billions of dollors to spend on other things (or rehab for addicts). Think of the tax revenues alone.

The Toninator · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by kitchenware

I'm quite sure 99 Helens would agree that your post was written very poorly if that's what you were trying to convey. Go back, edit it, and start all over.

Thanks for playing.

jim

I'm not playing any game and no thanks i dont need to change a thing. :dead:

kitchenware · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

I'm not playing any game and no thanks i dont need to change a thing.

Your internet persona needs work.

Use some more smileys or something to help convey your rambling thoughts.

The Toninator · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by kitchenware

Your internet persona needs work.

Use some more smileys or something to help convey your rambling thoughts.

I was not being funny, or what you imagine i was being, therefore my comments didnt necessitate emoticons. My "internet persona" is very much in check. You insulted me with "That's the funniest post I've ever read here!

Pot smokers more violent than drunks? Come on, wake up.

jim" and i replied.

kitchenware · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

I was not being funny, or what you imagine i was being, therefore my comments didnt necessitate emoticons. My "internet persona" is very much in check. You insulted me with "That's the funniest post I've ever read here!

Pot smokers more violent than drunks? Come on, wake up.

jim" and i replied.

Very good, that's the perfect emoticon for you. I understand now.

The Toninator · Aug 1, 2002

Originally posted by kitchenware

Very good, that's the perfect emoticon for you. I understand now.

the macinator says "put down the blunt and back away,,, mmmmkay."

Tenaciousle0 · Aug 1, 2002

I don't "smoke the drugs" but I think they should all be legalized and taxed. That way we would know who was doing drugs and lower income taxes --insert Dick vitale slam dunk quote here--

laura · Aug 2, 2002

Originally posted by Tenaciousle0
I don't "smoke the drugs" --

then what do you do with them man? :cool:

:evil:

Tenaciousle0 · Aug 2, 2002

Originally posted by laura

then what do you do with them man? :evil:

well there's this wallaby and it all gets kind of complicated after that

TN · Aug 3, 2002

Legalize pot & only pot.
It is not as harmful as Ephedra/Ma Huang, & you can get a bottle of that at the health food store (or the truck stop).

I know this is not an Alcohol vs. Pot debate but....
Have you ever seen/heard of someone stoned, piss on themselves?
Have you ever seen/heard of someone falldown b/c they are stoned?
Have you ever seen/heard of someone choke on there own vomit on pot?

shifting gears....

Pot was not illegal until 1930-something RIGHT after prohibition was over....coincidence....I think not.
Liquor makers & beer companies didnt want to compete with a weed that grows wild, almost in every climate. Still today Anhieser-Busch (sp?) is one of the biggest advocates of keeping "the evil-devil weed" illegal. They would lose alot of money if pot were legal.

And from the "OK.....but...." files-

In the USA it is reported that 35% of Americans have used drugs. In Amsterdam, only 20%. Crime rate, especially violent crime is considerably lower in Amsterdam as well.

yeah, but what is the percentage of people living at or below the poverty level?? That has alot to do with crimes comitted, drug realted or not.

shifting gears again....

Why I wouldn't legalize hard drugs.
Most drugs make you want them more & more until it gets out of control (ie: spending your car note or grocery money for some more coke/smack, stealing to get more money/drugs, etc...).

AND....most coke heads, if it were legal, would go out & buy a HUGE bag & start blowing rails of the stuff, b/c it would be readily available. Then they would more than likely go into cardiac arrest & their heart would blow-up & shoot out their ass :eek:

.
Same thing with smack/meth/xtc...
This would cause a health crisis.

again with the shifting of the gears....

The bad side of pot.
It robs you of your motivation...unless your motivation is to watch TV

.
We are already a nation of lazy fat asses.
AND weed does make you lazy.....if not, please share your stash!
It also makes you paranoid, but I blame that on it being illegal.
Communcation can be a problem too.

"huh?.....wha?.....are you talking to me?.....sorry, I kinda' spaced out."

And smoking anything aint good for you.

Oh Yeah!! It makes you a horrible typer/speller

.

But, the pros outweigh the cons.

But there is hope....see the next post by me.

TN · Aug 3, 2002

This is from the Las Vegas Review-Journal-

CARSON CITY -- Nevada voters will be asked in November whether adults should be allowed to possess small amounts of marijuana, the secretary of state's office announced Tuesday.

Nevadans for Responsible Law Enforcement turned in 74,740 valid signatures on petitions to change the state's marijuana laws, Deputy Secretary of State Susan Bilyeu said. The organization, an offshoot of the Washington, D.C.-based Marijuana Policy Project, needed at least 61,336 valid signatures to place the question on the Nov. 5 general election ballot.

The proposal to allow adults to possess as much as three ounces of marijuana without police interference needs approval in the November election and again in 2004 to become part of the Nevada Constitution.

"The success of our petition provides solid evidence that most Nevadans think it is a waste of their tax dollars to arrest people with small amounts of marijuana," said Billy Rogers, a spokesman for Nevadans for Responsible Law Enforcement.

"Nevadans support this initiative because it allows law enforcement the resources to track down terrorists, murderers, rapists and other violent criminals."

FBI records show the number of people arrested on marijuana charges nationally reached nearly 750,000 in 2000, up from fewer than 300,000 in 1991.

Until last year, Nevada had the strictest marijuana law in the nation. People possessing any amount of marijuana could be charged with a felony, although most received lesser charges in exchange for attending drug treatment programs. Possession of one ounce or less of marijuana in Nevada is now a misdemeanor, punishable by a $600 fine.

Under the Nevadans for Responsible Law Enforcement proposal, adults would not be arrested if they possessed three ounces or less of marijuana. They still could not use the drug in public places or while driving.

The petition also calls for the state to set up a distribution plan to provide medical marijuana to qualified patients.

Currently, 185 people in Nevada have permission to use marijuana for medical reasons. They must grow their own marijuana. How they acquire seeds is left up to the qualified users.

Besides meeting the total signature requirement, Bilyeu said Nevadans for Responsible Law Enforcement met a second requirement by collecting a sufficient number of signatures in 14 of the state's 17 counties, falling short only in Douglas, Elko and Nye counties. Under state law, sufficient signatures had to be collected in at least 13 counties.

While permitting adults to use small amounts of marijuana, Rogers said this proposal recognizes the need to prevent irresponsible use of marijuana by minors and drivers.

"Today, responsible and other law-abiding citizens face arrest and imprisonment for possessing small amounts of marijuana," he said.

"This initiative will protect responsible people and punish those who use irresponsibly."

*I love it they consider "a small amount", up to 3 OZ.

*and what about drug testing in the workplace....how will this be affected?? :confused:

Better head back,
TN_Fred

Drug legalization

Your stance on drug legalization?

I smoke pot and want it legalized (just pot, not other drugs)

I don't smoke but want it legalized (just pot, not other drugs)

I don't do any drugs and want them all to stay illegal

I do hard drugs (coke, X, heroin, meth)and want them legalized

I don't do any drugs but want them all legalized

I smoke pot only, but want all drugs legalized

Dr. Phil Jefe

I wish I was Canadian

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