[slyfink]

The nerd rage will be strong here next week

what's next week? Taichung?

 

[Huck Banzai]

I don't have any technical analyses for this one; someone made something that might be pretty dingdangdong cool. I bring nothing to complement the technical side, and no possible compliments until I see the final product.

But I'm not pro, so I wont be able to use it to its full extent, or actually notice the difference between it and a Junior T, and also I need to go to recess now.

I want everything to be carbon and tapered including my...


But seriously - I cant wait to check this thingy out.

 

[Sandwich]

The torsional stiffness (in the vertical fore-aft plane) of the lower crown in an inverted fork is one of the biggest factors in the overall torsional stiffness of the fork (note how huge moto lower crowns are), but when weight is also a big deal, it makes sense to have the most efficient strength/stiffness to weight ratio. A larger steerer tube interface helps to optimise this in a few ways:
1. By giving the crown much greater purchase on the steerer
2. By shortening the length of the crown between the steerer tube and the upper tube surfaces
3. By allowing the crown to have a larger polar moment of inertia for a given weight, particularly at the critical junction between steerer and crown, where profile/tyre clearance are a concern.

Given that it's offered in a 1.125 configuration anyway, I think the tapered steerer option is a smart move. Whether or not it makes a huge difference, only the people with the real world numbers can tell you, but there is no argument about it being a more structurally efficient design than a straight 1.125.

I went back and looked at some Ohlins/Marzocchi moto forks and you're right, the lower crown is huge, and the steerer is not a rod but a metal pipe about an inch thick or so. Still not tapered, but also not carbon.

I just hope it comes in rasta.

 

[troy]

No crown/steer tube bolts ? Dafuq?

 

['size]

No crown/steer tube bolts ? Dafuq?

Jan Brandse : How will you fix the top crown since there are no pinch bolts on it?


DVO Suspension : Jan, we are testing a couple different methods, we also have clamps with pinch bolts too.

 

[Sandwich]

No crown/steer tube bolts ? Dafuq?

No stanchion bolts either. Maybe a slide-in steerer that torques everything together (like a lefty)? Sounds like a new "standard" for head tube sizes...

 

[Ronnie Dilan]

I may have missed it, but is there a target price released yet?

Also, what quantities are you planning on running, first year? Currious how many you project on moving.

We do not have a target price range just yet, but we are working on getting all of this figured out over the next couple of weeks.

 

[Ronnie Dilan]

Wow 5 posts and no one has said anything about the carbon torsion bridge. Maybe because the photo hides what it actually is? I can't wait for the blown minds when they release of picture of that.

Also, evidently that is a mistake saying that the uppers are carbon I believe. I think they will be aluminum.

Most definitely not carbon uppers on the Emerald.

 

[Deano]

Most definitely not carbon uppers on the Emerald.

No pictures- no beleive

Go on ronnie.. sneak us a couple of spyshots.. we wont tell .. promise !!

 

[Ronnie Dilan]

No pictures- no beleive

Go on ronnie.. sneak us a couple of spyshots.. we wont tell .. promise !!

I wish I could get a couple pics out to you guys. I think that the boys are going to do a pretty good job of getting some good pictures out as the fork is being assembled..

 

[Lelandjt]

I just want a pic of the spring preloading the shim stack. I want to know the coil thickness and angle of the coils so I can calculate whether this is a worthwhile product. Love the superglue-on crowns even lighter than ti bolts.

 

[Kanye West]

I just want a pic of the spring preloading the shim stack. I want to know the coil thickness and angle of the coils so I can calculate whether this is a worthwhile product. Love the superglue-on crowns even lighter than ti bolts.

You use a heat gun to adjust the fork height in the crowns.

 

[jonKranked]

wow we're north of 300 posts and i haven't had to speculate about shimzz

 

[Jm_]

I went back and looked at some Ohlins/Marzocchi moto forks and you're right, the lower crown is huge, and the steerer is not a rod but a metal pipe about an inch thick or so. Still not tapered, but also not carbon.

I just hope it comes in rasta.

I was wondering how long it was going to be until someone busted out the Halson Inversion. I was going to post it if no one else did

 

[dilzy]

No stanchion bolts either. Maybe a slide-in steerer that torques everything together (like a lefty)? Sounds like a new "standard" for head tube sizes...

I was thinking they might incorporate a split tapered shim on a shelf on the fork legs, like my pro ms paint drawing shown, obviously the top clamp would come down on a step on the leg or something, who knows. Probably wouldn't be any lighter, might be stiffer.

 

[Sandwich]

I was wondering how long it was going to be until someone busted out the Halson Inversion. I was going to post it if no one else did

I would think a good through axle, like Foes' 30mm or manitou's hex axle, would sufficiently link both sliders together better than a carbon, foot and a half long bridge...but I suppose we'll see. I'm pretty sure that's exactly how the bridge on the halson worked, linking both sliders together to prevent torsional flex in the land before through axles.

Dilzy, I was thinking much like this:

It works very well on a lefty fork, but you need a pretty specific headtube stack height to make it work right. I suppose it could be fine tuned for a series of shimz.

 

[boogenman]

wow we're north of 300 posts and i haven't had to speculate about shimzz

It was already leaked that this fork will be shim-less. Shimz are sooooo last season.

 

[boogenman]

DVO has invented elastomers with adjustable rebound.

 

[xy9ine]

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how the bridge on the halson worked, linking both sliders together to prevent torsional flex in the land before through axles.

the halson used a brace bolted through slots in the uppers. kinda jinky, yes. i almost bought one of these back in the day. ended up with a mountain cycles suspenders - an inverted fork w/ no such stiffening contrivances (and thus flexed quite a bit laterally).

 

[Sandwich]

the halson used a brace bolted through slots in the uppers. kinda jinky, yes. i almost bought one of these back in the day. ended up with a mountain cycles suspenders - an inverted fork w/ no such stiffening contrivances (and thus flexed quite a bit laterally).

yeah that's what I thought. too bad you didn't have one in

 

[Tomasz]

That's a horseshoe.

 

[Sandwich]

It's an un-patented aluminum torsion horseshoe.

 

[broSteve]

Here it is allegedly

 

[Sandwich]

Here it is allegedly
View attachment 112484

now photoshop some rasta colors

 

[jonKranked]

now it just looks like an avy with an arch

 

[ianjenn]

Jesus what with the SHOP job at least make the legs straight.

 

[jonKranked]

Jesus what with the SHOP job at least make the legs straight.

e-flex

 

[jezso]

Here it is allegedly
View attachment 112484

Let the e-engineering begin.

I am not sure whether the above solution with that bridge (if it exists) would have any advantage compared to existing designs (ie. Dorado). I am wondering though why companies are not using stanctions with hexagonal (or any polygonal) shape a la Cannondale (might be patented, i need to check uspto).
The stanction should not be necessarily polygonal through the whole length, but only at the upper section, so that there is no need for special seals. This combined with a hexagonal and tapered axle might be a good solution if the dimensions are right.
I might be very wrong with with this concept, but here is some food for the brains.

 

[HardtailHack]

Let the e-engineering begin.

I am not sure whether the above solution with that bridge (if it exists) would have any advantage compared to existing designs (ie. Dorado). I am wondering though why companies are not using stanctions with hexagonal (or any polygonal) shape a la Cannondale (might be patented, i need to check uspto).
The stanction should not be necessarily polygonal through the whole length, but only at the upper section, so that there is no need for special seals. This combined with a hexagonal and tapered axle might be a good solution if the dimensions are right.
I might be very wrong with with this concept, but here is some food for the brains.

Circles are round, lathes do round, they don't do hex, hex=$

 

[troy]

lathes do round, they don't do hex

Unfortunately, You're wrong.

 

[contactjt]

Let the e-engineering begin.
The stanction should not be necessarily polygonal through the whole length, but only at the upper section, so that there is no need for special seals.

This would not work as the 203mm of stanchion outside the chassis needs to be "swallowed" by the chassis at full travel. The bushing guiding the stanchion is just behind the seal, so comes into play 10 to 20mm into the travel.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Why making an inverted fork with tapered steer tube and an arch?

 

[dilzy]

Unfortunately, You're wrong.

Machining center =! lathe. Lathes go round and have stationary bits that do work. You can't call a horizontal machining center with a rotary table a lathe.

Semantics..

I do like the hex axle though and I'd like to see a torsional stiffness comparison.

 

[atrokz]

Machining center =! lathe. Lathes go round and have stationary bits that do work. You can't call a horizontal machining center with a rotary table a lathe.

Semantics..

I do like the hex axle though and I'd like to see a torsional stiffness comparison.

He might mean that they hold a hex, which they do. It's how we make custom bolts, generally.

But you're right that the machines can't be compared for actualy making the hex.

Lathe =/= Mill =/= "Live tooling" or Swiss lathes.

 

[troy]

Ok let's call a 2axis cnc lathe a machining center than yes, You're right. Even though using some tricks You can actualy make a hex on typical non cnc lathe

 

[mtg]

Ok let's call a 2axis cnc lathe a machining center than yes, You're right. Even though using some tricks You can actualy make a hex on typical non cnc lathe

Yep, I just had a bunch of pivot axles made on a lathe that have an internal hex shape.

 

[jezso]

This would not work as the 203mm of stanchion outside the chassis needs to be "swallowed" by the chassis at full travel. The bushing guiding the stanchion is just behind the seal, so comes into play 10 to 20mm into the travel.

Oh yes, you are right. I have not thought it through completely.

I remember the old Monster fork, which has one bushing fixed to the end of the stanction, so this one is moving all times as the fork gets cycled through it's travel. This means that the distance between the two bushings increases as you use more of it's travel. Also you need to have the legs very smooth in the inside to serve as proper surface for the moving bushing. I am not sure whether this increases the rigidity of the assembly, or how it affects the weight but is an interesting solution, I have not yet seen since the Monster.

 

[Lelandjt]

That's how all moto forks work. The Monster was based off Marz's trials moto fork. It's definitely the best way to go, especially for an inverted fork. However, like you say it requires a bearing surface quality finish on the inside of the slider so it's an added cost and the legs can't be slid apart without dislodging the seals so cleaning/re-greasing is complicated by one step. That's fine wih me as I now only change oil through the top caps or foot nut holes and almost never pull the legs off.

 

[dilzy]

Yep, I just had a bunch of pivot axles made on a lathe that have an internal hex shape.

Super slow broaching with the cross slide?? How did you do this exactly? I'm not a machinist, but it's always useful to know how this is done.

 

[HardtailHack]

Hahaha I should post more after drinking beerz, meh, thread wasn't really on topic anyways.

Keen to see how these end up but I have worked out after having many weird bits it gets annoying when people constantly ask "What...is that?"........."Does it work alright?" so I'll never own them.