[jonassterling]

Originally posted by TCoop924
[B. So, good for them (particularly because christianity has always been one of the most closed-minded religions on earth). [/B]

As a basic tenet of following a selected relgion you must be closed minded about many things. If your faith says something is wrong, then a follower most agree. Thats the whole idea of religion.

I don't really have a problem with that. If someone tells me I'm going to hell for my actions I try to engage them in a serious debate about my problems with organized religion.

One of 2 things usually occurs. The most common is they have no real intellctual ground to stand on because their faith is based on emotion not thought. The second, less common thing is we debate for awhile until we get to the point that they admit their faith is just that, faith. Something in their hearts tells them they are part of the true faith, and it is a gift from God. At this point I usually say then be grateful you have been given this gift, I have not, and if their God is one worth worshiping he or she or it will understand my continuing struggle to come to terms with my existance, and not send me to Hades if I were to die tomorrow. Most folks agree with this.

I guess what I'm saying is if you don't like what a relgion beleives than don't be a part of it. No one forces you.

And aren't you being closed monded about others beliefs by calling them closed minded? This can become a vicous cycle.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Originally posted by Silver
No, I don't think that this priest considers himself a hypocrite any more than a christian who goes out to eat on a Sunday or doesn't follow ceremonial laws do. They all have a way of rationalizing certain things in and out, and I don't think homosexuality is much harder to rationalize out than a lot of other stuff. Hell, you want something hard to rationalize? I'm sure a lot of molesting priests consider themselves to be faithful servants of God that make an oops now and then. But I'm sure they find a way to rationalize their behaviors to themselves.

There is the off chance, I guess, that this bishop is a complete hypocrite, but I prefer to take the less cynical view.

The whole point of being a Christian (and a gentile) is that we don't have to follow the cerimonial law. The statements in the OT and specifically the book of Leviticus regarding homosexuality have nothing to do with cerimonial law, it was commands from God to tell the Israelites not to act like their neighbors. Now saying that New Testament believers don't have to follow the cerimonial law, does that make things like the 10 commandments moot? NOPE, breaking those commandments (from the Bibles point of view NT or OT) is still a sin. Abraham and Noah were in right standing with God before the cerimonial law was even given. The law in an of itself was never and could never be a "method" or path of salvation, the Bible is clear that comes through faith only.

So that said, what are the "do's and don'ts" (for lack of a better term) for New Testament believers? Paul is clear in his letter to the Galatians that the life of a believer is marked with the "fruits of the Spirit" and those that are not believers have a life marked by "the works of the flesh". The context and word usage in that passage aren't a "if you ever do these things you're going to hell". It's more like, these things of the flesh should not be the habitual pattern of your life, these things of the Spirit should.

So to New Testament believers ever screw up, you bet, are they perfect (the cop-out you called it) NOPE. That's why there is grace. That said, this Bishop subscribes to this faith called Chrsitianity, which is a life that the Bible says is marked by the "fruits of the Spirit" (one of which is self-control). Now, if someone says they are a believer but their life is marked with lets say habitual sexual immorality (according to the Bible), and they are unrepentant about it, then according to the Bible they really are not a believer. Jesus says you will know his people by "their fruits" (see fruits of the Spirit).

Am I saying this Bishop is not "really" a Christian, that's not my place. That's something only he and God know.

On a realated side note: Jesus also says there will be many amoung the real beleiver's that claim to be but really are not. The Bible also indicates that the leader of a church should be a "husband of one wife" (which is pretty clear about sexual orientation), and that those that lead and teach will be judges differently (more strictly) than those believer's that don't.

 

[zod]

I'm not getting into a debate b/c you cannot debate faith with people who do not have it.
All I have to say on this matter is that I feel VERY sorry for the people who end up following this Gay Bishop and end up becoming lost sould because of it.
God will not codemn anybody to Hell for being gay but refuting that your lifestyle is steeped in sin because of it will put you on a path straight there. Had this Bishop said he was gay and he knows its a sin and he knows he is in the wrong then I would have no problem with him.
He's a false prophet and those who listen to him and forsake VERY specific passages in the Bible which are the Word of God will likely parish.
I pray they don't and I pray for Gene Robinson.

I am not the biggest fan of Jerry Falwell b/c he takes an ignorant stance sometimes, but his words on this matter are to the point and true:

"I believe this, that a fornicator, an adulterer, a heterosexual who is not loyal to his wife, is disqualified from being a pastor or a priest or a bishop. And, for the same reason, I believe that anyone else, a homosexual or anyone who violates Scripture, cannot be a leader. We have got to have men of God in those positions. Gene Robinson clearly is not a man of God, or he would be following the teachings of Scripture."

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus
Many of them are also Presby.

Bisectuals?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Originally posted by zod
...Jerry Falwell...

Sort of like quoting Springer, huh?

 

[zod]

not quite, ones a liberal and ones conservative but nice try

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by zod

I am not the biggest fan of Jerry Falwell b/c he takes an ignorant stance sometimes, but his words on this matter are to the point and true:

"I believe this, that a fornicator, an adulterer, a heterosexual who is not loyal to his wife, is disqualified from being a pastor or a priest or a bishop. And, for the same reason, I believe that anyone else, a homosexual or anyone who violates Scripture, cannot be a leader. We have got to have men of God in those positions. Gene Robinson clearly is not a man of God, or he would be following the teachings of Scripture."

I'm going to leave the Jerry Falwell quote alone. If there is a God, that man is going to burn in hell.

Anyways, back to the topic. You're taking this much to seriously. Remember, this gay bishop comes from a church whose entire existence is predicated on the fact that Henry VIII wanted to divorce his wife and the Pope wouldn't let him. If God's cool with that, he's going to be cool with a gay bishop, trust me on this one...

 

[Andyman_1970]

Originally posted by Silver
I'm going to leave the Jerry Falwell quote alone. If there is a God, that man is going to burn in hell.

Anyways, back to the topic. You're taking this much to seriously. Remember, this gay bishop comes from a church whose entire existence is predicated on the fact that Henry VIII wanted to divorce his wife and the Pope wouldn't let him. If God's cool with that, he's going to be cool with a gay bishop, trust me on this one...

That's just it, God's not "cool" with divorce. That's why Paul states in the NT that a leader and elder in the church should be the husband of one wife (i.e. faithful in the small things before you can be faithful in the big things).

God is not "cool" (according to the Bible) with a gay (or alcoholic, or adulterer, or greedy, or **insert your sin of choice here**) unrepentant Bishop. Again, the Bible is very clear on this matter of claiming to be a believer and living a habitually sinful unrepentant life.