[rimshot]Hacksaw already rode for Evil[/rimshot]
I was thinking selling all frames as raw and including a can of Krylon in their choice of color too. Truly DIY.
-ska todd
Evil Bikes 2008
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I was thinking selling all frames as raw and including a can of Krylon in their choice of color too. Truly DIY.
-ska todd
"Jerry, Its a pizza place where you cook your own pie!!"
but what if we want elf blood????
would probably be easier and cheaper for them to let you buy a frame from someone else. heck, they could probably buy the frame for you, slap an Evil sticker on it, and still come out ahead.
moral of the story: you can't please everyone.
man i didnt mean to start a war with the headset comment, but it sounds like the mob really doesnt like tapered jobs...
as for a dirtjump bike, they are absolutely pointless, dont see how anyone can argue the other point...the dirt jump crowd would hate that in a frame...i think that is obvious
as for a dirtjump bike, they are absolutely pointless, dont see how anyone can argue the other point...the dirt jump crowd would hate that in a frame...i think that is obvious
todd,
are there any plan with titanium?? Maybe a Ti Sov???
are there any plan with titanium?? Maybe a Ti Sov???
i heard from a guy on mtbr who said said he only likes ti hardtails with with 70 degree head angles and 15.85" chainstays. so if Evil made a ti sovereign obviously no one would buy it.todd,
are there any plan with titanium?? Maybe a Ti Sov???
Something like that
Is Evil going to be producing some pimped out chrome scraper bikes? That's the only way I'll buy one.
You guys seemsed to miss my point to some extent..
first, a tapered head tube does offer an advantage, and as a design, I have no problems with them per se...I am an engineer and understand the push to develop newer and better products.
I am not advocating stagnation, just proper planing and the patients to allow new standards to develop and be embraced before forced on the public that for the most part do not understand the lack of current support for the new standard.
This is just another standard that is implemented before enough vendors are on board (if they ever will be) and THAT leaves the consumer SOL.
Again, as a PM/mfg, you have the ability to get ahold of the pieces and parts to put a new system together....consumers do not. Try to find a selection of tapered steer tube forks for sale. None avail from either major distributor, nor on any major mail order site.....
Mickey, you may be able to buy single e-13 reducers, but I cannot even though I have access to QBP, BTI, etc. There is NOT a single headset available from any mfg that will allow a 1 1/8 steer tube in a taperd head tube. THe fulstrum as well as the FSA tapered headsets are for E2/tapered configuration, but who is going to have a spare E2 fork....no one!
If someone were to buy a tapered head tube frame, they would HAVE to at the least buy two headsets (if like most people they owned a 1 1/8 fork). No one is going to have an E2 fork that did not come with (and be married to) an OEM complete build.
I dont hold a lot of faith in the idea that 'in the future' forks and headsets will be avial to the consumer. The bike industry has used this promise over and over and filed to come through more often than not.
For example, two years ago, the 6point was released with an 83mm bb. Industry types swore up and down that 'soon' there would be many light weight (trail type) 83 mm cranks avail. The idea was the 6 point config was the 'future'. Now two years later...83mm bb are not being used on trail bikes and there are no 83mm trail cranks from any mfg (I guess you could argue G-lights...so 1 option).
Just try to put yourself in the position of a CONSUMER and look at what is available NOW. It does not matter that you can make this work as an OEM mfg, it matters if Joe mt biker can easily buy the parts at the LBS or mail order.......and at this point the answer is NO.
Again, I agree there are solid merits to the system, I am just a little gun-shy of promises of future availability and acceptance. The bike biz has a long history of 'new standards' that sputter and fail despite industry support and true benefits.
first, a tapered head tube does offer an advantage, and as a design, I have no problems with them per se...I am an engineer and understand the push to develop newer and better products.
I am not advocating stagnation, just proper planing and the patients to allow new standards to develop and be embraced before forced on the public that for the most part do not understand the lack of current support for the new standard.
This is just another standard that is implemented before enough vendors are on board (if they ever will be) and THAT leaves the consumer SOL.
Again, as a PM/mfg, you have the ability to get ahold of the pieces and parts to put a new system together....consumers do not. Try to find a selection of tapered steer tube forks for sale. None avail from either major distributor, nor on any major mail order site.....
Mickey, you may be able to buy single e-13 reducers, but I cannot even though I have access to QBP, BTI, etc. There is NOT a single headset available from any mfg that will allow a 1 1/8 steer tube in a taperd head tube. THe fulstrum as well as the FSA tapered headsets are for E2/tapered configuration, but who is going to have a spare E2 fork....no one!
If someone were to buy a tapered head tube frame, they would HAVE to at the least buy two headsets (if like most people they owned a 1 1/8 fork). No one is going to have an E2 fork that did not come with (and be married to) an OEM complete build.
I dont hold a lot of faith in the idea that 'in the future' forks and headsets will be avial to the consumer. The bike industry has used this promise over and over and filed to come through more often than not.
For example, two years ago, the 6point was released with an 83mm bb. Industry types swore up and down that 'soon' there would be many light weight (trail type) 83 mm cranks avail. The idea was the 6 point config was the 'future'. Now two years later...83mm bb are not being used on trail bikes and there are no 83mm trail cranks from any mfg (I guess you could argue G-lights...so 1 option).
Just try to put yourself in the position of a CONSUMER and look at what is available NOW. It does not matter that you can make this work as an OEM mfg, it matters if Joe mt biker can easily buy the parts at the LBS or mail order.......and at this point the answer is NO.
Again, I agree there are solid merits to the system, I am just a little gun-shy of promises of future availability and acceptance. The bike biz has a long history of 'new standards' that sputter and fail despite industry support and true benefits.
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Dave,
You are missing the point. 1.125" headsets already exist, so do 1.5" ones.
What is the issue? Frames ship with headsets these days... internal headset designs are standardized enough that all someone will need to replace is bearings. Nothing new, nothing radical.
There is nothing to be afraid of. There is nothing to be afraid of. There is nothing to be afraid of.
You are missing the point. 1.125" headsets already exist, so do 1.5" ones.
What is the issue? Frames ship with headsets these days... internal headset designs are standardized enough that all someone will need to replace is bearings. Nothing new, nothing radical.
There is nothing to be afraid of. There is nothing to be afraid of. There is nothing to be afraid of.
I almost always agree with you davep, but I must be missing something here. Along with the CC Frustum, Gravity offers 5 different 1.5/1.125 headsets. That seems like plenty of choices to me. If you have a tapered steerer fork and need a backup, all you need is an extra crown race. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. If I was buying a frame with a tapered headtube and using my existing fork I would just use a reducing crown race. If I was buying said frame and a new fork, I would get a tapered steerer fork.
Again, not trying to argue the validity of the system, only the availability of parts....
If the new frames are going to come with a pile of headset parts that will allow alll steer tube configurations then cool.....
I can get a variety of 1 1/8 or 1.5 headsets (internal, integrated, reducers, etc) at all price ranges at any number of bike shops in town...
but take a tapered frame and a 1 1/8 fork to a random LBS and see if they have a headset for you..or can even figure out how to piece something together.
Did not mean for this to become a big arguement, I just think it is relevant that with access to both QBP and BTI right now (where the vast majority of bike shops access components), I cannot get ahold of the parts to make this work.
The only headset that I have 'seen' that will fit a 1 1/8 steer tube in a tapered head tube is the gravity SXE, and it is a cheapo open bearing design(lower) with a huge stack height. The rest all for tapered steer tube forks. BTW, none are avail currently. CC does not have any info about the Frustrum nor is it even listed as a part to be stocked when avial from either QBP or BTI.
Where are you going to get a tapered fork? They are technically listed by some mfg, but again they are not available in reality at this point from any retailer or distributor.
If the new frames are going to come with a pile of headset parts that will allow alll steer tube configurations then cool.....
I can get a variety of 1 1/8 or 1.5 headsets (internal, integrated, reducers, etc) at all price ranges at any number of bike shops in town...
but take a tapered frame and a 1 1/8 fork to a random LBS and see if they have a headset for you..or can even figure out how to piece something together.
Did not mean for this to become a big arguement, I just think it is relevant that with access to both QBP and BTI right now (where the vast majority of bike shops access components), I cannot get ahold of the parts to make this work.
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Now now, I'm sure it would be much, much easier for a small startup to offer an additional model (and an additional 3 sizes, times however many colors they're offering, so figure 15 additional SKUs) with completely different frame-tooling just to satisfy someone who thinks it's "detrimental to the bike's aesthetics and would be a deal breaker for him"...
Offering a myriad of products, made in minuscule batches, customized to each individual customer around the world (and driving employees and factories alike completely crazy) because of the fear of losing a single sale is exactly how Todd got to where he is today.
Tell your bikeshops to call the headset manufacturers directly. They can and will sell the parts. It's just not at all as big a deal as you are making it out to be. High-end bikes should, i would hope have interested, enthusiastic consumers who are able to advocate for themselves. The company that is currently selling lots of tapered headtubed bikes (trek) has plenty of parts available.
Bikeshops by and large fail at selling and supporting new technology, and always have. Only knowledgeable shops understand new technology. You'd have just as much trouble finding Swisstop brake pads for carbon rims or a shop mechanic who could rebuild your vivid.
Hey Dave,
I don't give a frosted goat turd about this argument either way, but I do know that Cane Creek is coming out with a full lineup for any setup. They will sell it at the same price as a regular headset, and you pick the configuration that you need. Also, these headsets are suppose to be top quality like the 110, and I think they are making 110 versions of the 1.5 and flush headsets. It was my understanding that all of this was for 2009, but I heard all that back in September so who knows.
I don't give a frosted goat turd about this argument either way, but I do know that Cane Creek is coming out with a full lineup for any setup. They will sell it at the same price as a regular headset, and you pick the configuration that you need. Also, these headsets are suppose to be top quality like the 110, and I think they are making 110 versions of the 1.5 and flush headsets. It was my understanding that all of this was for 2009, but I heard all that back in September so who knows.
http://www.reset-racing.de/reset/steuer_index.htm
ANY size/colour you want, if you have the €€€
Neither are the new evils!
Seriously, tapered forks will probably be available by the time you can get your paws on one of these bikes.
Ding! Winner!Neither are the new evils!
Seriously, tapered forks will probably be available by the time you can get your paws on one of these bikes.
Bitching that parts aren't available right now for bikes that currently only exist on paper is rather foolish.
We shouldn't favor current parts availability over innovation. The lack of availability will improve rapidly as the standard is accepted by more OEMs. Remember a few years ago when there were very few 29er tires/parts out there and 1.5 was a Manitou-only thing?..... Gary Fisher helped make 29ers stick by offering complete bikes and eventually 1.5" caught on as well and now all the major players offer 1.5" forks.... Fast forward a few years and we've realized that a full 1.5 head tube is overkill and we are better served by putting the strength where it's needed, on the bottom, and keeping the top 1.125".
I support tapered because it's the best design. I decided to build my new bike that way by choice. It wasn't hard at all. I called King and ordered a bottom half only 1.5" headset (~$100 retail) and then bought a Cane Creek integrated headset (~$30 retail) and was able to score an e.13 reducer from a buddy. I found out later that Gravity and others make complete headsets for this application but I'm stoked on my setup and I think the price was totally fair and comparable to any other nice headset.
In the meantime, you can always take advantage of the fact that your such a tight ass. Just buy a 1.5" fork, stick the steerer up your a$$, clench down real good and tight and cold swage the top down to 1.125".
just kidding! But seriously, tapered is the way to go IMO. 
I support tapered because it's the best design. I decided to build my new bike that way by choice. It wasn't hard at all. I called King and ordered a bottom half only 1.5" headset (~$100 retail) and then bought a Cane Creek integrated headset (~$30 retail) and was able to score an e.13 reducer from a buddy. I found out later that Gravity and others make complete headsets for this application but I'm stoked on my setup and I think the price was totally fair and comparable to any other nice headset.
In the meantime, you can always take advantage of the fact that your such a tight ass. Just buy a 1.5" fork, stick the steerer up your a$$, clench down real good and tight and cold swage the top down to 1.125".
just kidding! But seriously, tapered is the way to go IMO. if it's a carbon steerer maybe you can get a diamond if you squeeze hard enough.In the meantime, you can always take advantage of the fact that your such a tight ass. Just buy a 1.5" fork, stick the steerer up your a$$, clench down real good and tight and cold swage the top down to 1.125".
Holy crap there seriously is multiple pages about headset bearings...
What ever happened to good ol fashioned genuine STOKE on some fresh produce!!!
The moral of the story is that the new Evils will probably be some of the best, most dialed frames out there once their out there. In the mean time, I am happy to have held onto my Sovereign
What ever happened to good ol fashioned genuine STOKE on some fresh produce!!!
The moral of the story is that the new Evils will probably be some of the best, most dialed frames out there once their out there. In the mean time, I am happy to have held onto my Sovereign
and pip3r you make me furious for selling my sovereign a while back...furious...
good thing transition is making a clone now...best hardtail ever...and that is a tall claim but i believe it to be true
good thing transition is making a clone now...best hardtail ever...and that is a tall claim but i believe it to be true
It's a little closer than on just on paper. I have had a very close look at a bike that's all built up. I don't want to say much about it other than it is real and in the metal and sick. The crazy thing is that it looks just like the rendering on the site.
for Todd for sticking with this thread even though it seems to be derailed by the headset argument. I can't wait to get a Revolt as soon as they are available.
i agree get this thread back on track...i just made one comment about headsets and it turned into bedlam...
I would love to hear more on the 'sect' if there is any more to spill...any idea on when us mortals will see this bike available? Please tell me for the early part of the season, i would love to put some miles in on one over the summer
cheersß
I would love to hear more on the 'sect' if there is any more to spill...any idea on when us mortals will see this bike available? Please tell me for the early part of the season, i would love to put some miles in on one over the summer
cheersß
Same here. Whatever you can throw at us, weight with or w/o shock, geometry, ETA.... I am interested, especially, with the ISCG05 tabs, but am afraid it might turn into a West Coast beast.
In addition, will there be an "official" distributor for Canada or can we order directly from Evil? Will you have the flaming skull logo stickers as an option for those whose pictures won't appear in the page of mainstream bike mags?
Anything new on this front?
There are some bikes floating around in a couple of colors getting tested by a couple of guys who ride really well and really fast. Apparently they like the bikes. I can't wait to get one and get some ride time on it. 
I like what I'm seeing so far!
custom littermag dt sticker
See? They are ready to show the pictures, and there it is.
I still want to see the linkage, and see how that works. Looks neat, from the indecipherable blob that I am seeing.
I still want to see the linkage, and see how that works. Looks neat, from the indecipherable blob that I am seeing.
I would like to see it as well!See? They are ready to show the pictures, and there it is.
I still want to see the linkage, and see how that works. Looks neat, from the indecipherable blob that I am seeing.
Some people have posted up accounts from first hand eyewitnesses that it is a single pivot swingarm, with shock linkage at both ends of the damper.
cue lame, tired, and massively overused 'rootbeer' and 'looks flexy' jokes.....
Pretty. Let's see some better photos of it already...
or not.What a Sunn Radical ripoff...
don't make me come back to ontario just to punch you in the face! (note, may be back in ontario within the next couple of months for a visit....so watch yourself!)I know one thats not overused....
Can't wait for mine to be ready!