I know where this came from..... and I know who said it....... and I know why they said it.N8 said:
Explosion in London
- Thread starter ridetoofast
- Start date
DRB said:
Shhhhhhhh.... I want to hear all the gerbils spinning in their wheels...
:devil:
You also forgot the first paragraph which is even more telling....N8 said:
DRB said:
Yes... good call...
Bush is a tool but this statement is ultimately correct. If we weren't messing with them they would find someone else to kill or just attack us anyway for some other reason.N8 said:
I really have a hard time believing that. Fanatics exist for a reason. In this case because they feel alienated, persecuted, disenfranchised and ignored. They feel like they have no option to react they way they do. What else can they do? There are many examples through out history. The American revolution comes to mind.
Maybe I am naive but I don't think it is human nature to react this way unless pushed and pushed hard. Perhaps if the underlying conditions that led to their situation were addressed in the past this wouldn't be happening now.
And by saying "they" are you saying all Muslims want to kill all Infidels? Clearly that isn't the case. Only a few religious hardliners in my estimation and some easily persuadable youth with bleak looking futures.
Maybe I am naive but I don't think it is human nature to react this way unless pushed and pushed hard. Perhaps if the underlying conditions that led to their situation were addressed in the past this wouldn't be happening now.
And by saying "they" are you saying all Muslims want to kill all Infidels? Clearly that isn't the case. Only a few religious hardliners in my estimation and some easily persuadable youth with bleak looking futures.
ok....the BBC updated their death toll. But still you cant trust American media.
I think religious fundamentalism has no place in the world today, whether Christian or Islam or whatever. Haven't we evolved past this archaic way of thinking?
I think religious fundamentalism has no place in the world today, whether Christian or Islam or whatever. Haven't we evolved past this archaic way of thinking?
TN said:
I think someone hasn't been paying attention to the events in the middle east over the last 50+ years....
TN said:
That's all I'm trying to say. Thanks for summing it up.
As I understand it, "God" is the same in Islam and Christianity. Allah is Arabic for God. If you look at both religions side-by-side, you'll see they are very much alike. Even more so when you compare Islam to conservative Christian beliefs. The driving force behind a lot of the friction is the Christian diefication (sp?) of Jesus and to a certain extent, Mary, and, in some Muslim eyes, the disregard of God's laws. Unfortunately for the rest of the world, there are Islamic groups who boil this down to "kill all who don't believe what I do."N8 said:
So when these same terrorists are killing a church full of Pakistani Christians or mass murdering Iraqi civilians - whos persecuting who in that situation? There are more muslim governments persecuting their own people than the US yet we are the bad guys? Why? Because muslims persecuting muslims seems to be ok as long as it is the name of religious extremism or follows the edicts of their religious leaders. This is much more about religion than persecution. If the terrorists win against us, they will just go back to killing and persecuting their own people full time until they get everything they want.jdschall said:
Oh I forgot - Bush should go to jail for decieving the American people.
BikeGeek said:As I understand it, "God" is the same in Islam and Christianity. Allah is Arabic for God. If you look at both religions side-by-side, you'll see they are very much alike. Even more so when you compare Islam to conservative Christian beliefs. The driving force behind a lot of the friction is the Christian diefication (sp?) of Jesus and to a certain extent, Mary, and, in some Muslim eyes, the disregard of God's laws. Unfortunately for the rest of the world, there are Islamic groups who boil this down to "kill all who don't believe what I do."
Yes this what confuses me with the Israel vs. Muslim World... the are 'brothers' in religion and ethnicity...
E
enkidu
Guest
I wrote this in the Political D forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluff
I'm fine. . .
It was only ever really a matter of time until something like this happened.
Good to hear that you are alright. . . We can't afford to lose our in-house reclusive wizard.
It really was a matter of time. As a former CIA analyst, Michael Scheuer, writes in Imperial Hubris (p.263) as long as our policies toward the Muslim world are not changed they will only serve to fuel the Islamists' explosive hatred. Which, in turn, generates anti-Muslim hatred.
"The Islamists in al Qaeda, in other similar groups, and ordinary Muslims worldwide have been infected by hatred for U.S. policies toward the Muslim world. America's support for Israel, Russia, China, India, Algeria, Uzbekistan, and others against Islamists; its protection of multiple Muslim tyrannies; its efforts to control oil policy and pricing; and its military activities in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Arabian Peninsula, and elsewhere - these are the sources of the infection of hatred spreading in the Islamic world."
Are we to "stay the course" of this spiral widening of the hateful chasm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluff
I'm fine. . .
It was only ever really a matter of time until something like this happened.
Good to hear that you are alright. . . We can't afford to lose our in-house reclusive wizard.
It really was a matter of time. As a former CIA analyst, Michael Scheuer, writes in Imperial Hubris (p.263) as long as our policies toward the Muslim world are not changed they will only serve to fuel the Islamists' explosive hatred. Which, in turn, generates anti-Muslim hatred.
"The Islamists in al Qaeda, in other similar groups, and ordinary Muslims worldwide have been infected by hatred for U.S. policies toward the Muslim world. America's support for Israel, Russia, China, India, Algeria, Uzbekistan, and others against Islamists; its protection of multiple Muslim tyrannies; its efforts to control oil policy and pricing; and its military activities in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Arabian Peninsula, and elsewhere - these are the sources of the infection of hatred spreading in the Islamic world."
Are we to "stay the course" of this spiral widening of the hateful chasm?
Unfortunately this is just a common theme of humanity. It has been going on for a very long time by a lot of different groups. McCarthism, Pol Pot, Nazis, Indian Wars...... Islamic fundamentalism is just the flavour du jour.BikeGeek said:Unfortunately for the rest of the world, there are Islamic groups who boil this down to "kill all who don't believe what I do."
It is in human nature to force ones opinion on other people.BikeGeek said:As I understand it, "God" is the same in Islam and Christianity. Allah is Arabic for God. If you look at both religions side-by-side, you'll see they are very much alike. Even more so when you compare Islam to conservative Christian beliefs. The driving force behind a lot of the friction is the Christian diefication (sp?) of Jesus and to a certain extent, Mary, and, in some Muslim eyes, the disregard of God's laws. Unfortunately for the rest of the world, there are Islamic groups who boil this down to "kill all who don't believe what I do."
Some people make this their lifes work, and some people are willing to do anything for this. The cause is irrelivent it boils down to a morral issue of not killing inocent people to force an opinion.
what is you point? spell it out for me. draw me a picture or how about a powerpoint presentation?N8 said:
Westy said:
So the muslim world is running roughly 60 years behind the US and Europe?
33 people died confirmed by london officials
enkidu said:
Mike D has some very insightful and well researched posts in PD forum on this topic. There is a good chance if we conceeded certain things (walked away with our tails between our legs, ie Spain) a large percentage of terrorist groups would probably leave us alone, but certain extreme extremeist would stay their course. It would cause certain policy changes that would probably have little affect on National security/stability but would take a giant hit to American Pride. So do we bite the bullet and retreat or enter into a long expensive war of attrition? So far public opinion is to fight and my guess it will remain that way.
Yes, The US and the west in general becomes the whipping boy because to the rest of the world we are the "haves" and they are the "have nots". and intentionally or not we flaunt it.Ridemonkey said:
Ridemonkey said:
I think this sums it up. What would your solution be? Kill all muslims because eventually they will want to kill us? Is that your "final solution"?TN said:
TN said:
The middle east has not 'evolved.' Israel has been battling it daily for since 1947. Bombing of buses and resturants are monthly occurances there.
Scheuer's biggest problem his is inability to realize that there are two sides to this. He completely fails to address the other side which is a huge flaw in his book.enkidu said:
among other things.Ridemonkey said:
how did this turn into a liberal VS right wing thread?
30+ people just Died for no reason
30+ people just Died for no reason
Well duch, it is important that I clarify in my posts that my opinions are in no way supportive of our moron-president and his disaterous war in Iraq.firetoole said:
Bush should have his assets liquidated and divided up amongst the families of our dead and injured soldiers in the Iraqi war.
This thread is no longer worthless: http://flickr.com/photos/tags/bombs/
http://flickr.com/groups/74918957@N00/pool/
http://flickr.com/groups/74918957@N00/pool/
firetoole said:
Sadly, because some think it's Pres. Bush's fault for everything.
Had we stopped after Afghanistan and not wasted efforts on Iraq, they just might not have died.firetoole said:
firetoole said:
Yeah, you're correct (notice I didn't say 'right'). Sorry. It just makes me angry. It's just so senseless, the whole thing.
Ridemonkey. I like your idea of dividing up GW's wealth. Best thing I've heard all day.
Many muslims would be "haves" too if their governments didn't horde their vast wealth derived from oil profits. These people should be terrorising these governments, not us.jdschall said:
yes but I bet they don't have budget defasitsRidemonkey said:
59 years. But it is not fair to say the muslim world because it is not really the muslim world we are fighting but a small percentage of exremists. Which really makes things harder because despite have a far superior military it is not always that affective especially in a world where we can't deliver wholesale punishment for the actions of a few.N8 said:
N8s right, as frightening as that sounds.I Are Baboon said:Thanks for clarifying, Professor.
This will probably go a *long* way to changing British public opinion on a number of fronts.
The Brits, despite their bad teeth and short stature, are a feisty lot when provoked.
but I would have preferred "brownshirt". Its so much more intellectual.
Like poking a bear with a stickSkaredShtles said:N8s right, as frightening as that sounds.
This will probably go a *long* way to changing British public opinion on a number of fronts.
The Brits, despite their bad teeth and short stature, are a feisty lot when provoked.