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Follow up review: Marzocchi Roco (I think it is longer this time...)

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
...I guess not. Huh.

So a while back when I first got this shock, I threw up a review after my first ride. Now that I've got some actual ride time with the shock, I thought I'd give everyone a follow-up to tell what I think of the Marzocchi Roco rear shock.

First review linky:
http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141516

Key changes I've made to the ride since the initial review:
- Swapped out the spring (400# to a 450#)
- Swapped out the fork (Shiver to an 888 RC2X)
- Little bit more compression damping
- Couple stupid things that really don't matter like brakes, handlebars, grips, a new chain, yadda, yadda, yadda.



What I still like:
I've now done a little bit of everything on this shock, from riding it to class with the seat all high up, to hitting Earthmore, Beacon Hill's biggest drop (at around 15 feet take-off to top of tranny), and I'm still blown away by its performance. It is able to soak up everything that I've thrown at it so far, and it just keeps begging for more. I've got the compression set at 5 clicks from wide open, and the rebound set at that happy point just after the last feeling of pogo goes away.

What I thought I didn't like...
The pedal bob that I was noticing when I first got the shock isn't nearly as bad anymore. I played with the setup of the shock, and while it does move more than my 5th did when I'm riding up and down the street, on the trail, you don't notice it at all. The extra "mobility" of the rear shock makes it perform much better than my 5th ever did (I think that's called something like "active" :rolleyes: ) Swapping the spring for a stiffer one really helped it out a bunch. Hits feel like they go away. What I thought I didn't like, it turns out I love.

It really is a strange feeling, but the rear end of the bike still feels a lot smoother through the travel than the bike did with the 5th Element. I still notice the difference every time I ride the bike. What has been described as a "dead" rear end isn't what I don't have anymore. Mated with the new 888 - one that is set up damn near perfect, as far as I can tell - the bike is plush on both ends, but still pedals like it always did.

The progressiveness of the bike is also something that I can tell is working - granted, I never bottomed the 5th - it is just that you actually feel the rear shock ramping up. I didn't get this the first time I rode it (I even said the shock felt linear) because the spring wasn't stiff enough, so I was blowing through too much travel too quick. The ramp-up is the same way with Marzocchi forks - you get that uber-plush initial bit of travel, then the fork actually goes to work. Same thing here. I really, really like that aspect of it because you get the super-plush feeling when you first sit on the bike and once you're through that, your bike is sitting exactly where it should be in terms of sag, and the shock is at the working-point I was blabbing about a second ago. On my VP-Free, it is even more noticeable because the VPP system is made to run at a certain amount of sag to work the best.

The best thing I can say to sum up what I think about this shock: "When can we go riding again?"

If anyone is skeptical about the "lost" energy of riding a shock without a pedal platform, chew on this: for every second you potentially lose due to energy lost to the rear shock, you're gaining 3 because of the performance of the rear end of your bike. I was riding faster, jumping further that I ever did. I was smoking all my buddies down the trail who were beating me at races last year (one with a VP-Free as well, but with the 5th instead of the Roco). Swapping out the rear shock on your bike will do the same thing for you, too.

I said it in the first review, and now that I've ridden it a bit more, it is obvious that it is an understatement: The Marzocchi Roco not only performs extremely well, it makes me enjoy riding my bike more than I ever did before. That, IMO, is one of the best things that an upgrade can do for your bike.

On a side note:
Huge props to Marzocchi - I got an '06 888 RC2X that had a bad casting on the lowers. They swapped them, and after I gave them a sad story about it being my spring break and me not having a fork for my bike (thus, not being able to take the trip I'd planned), they overnighted the fork to me free of charge so that I could ride.
 

stgil888

Monkey
Jun 16, 2004
484
0
Malibu, CA
Thanks for the great review. I appreciate the effort you put into this post. I wish there were more posts like this on Ridemonkey.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
Great write up.
I've been thinking of this shock for my M1, the 5th feels like a rock on small hits. I just wish I knew if it fit my frame!
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
Zark said:
Great write up.
I've been thinking of this shock for my M1, the 5th feels like a rock on small hits. I just wish I knew if it fit my frame!
Call up Marzocchi and ask. I know that they tested them on a bunch of different frames before getting them on the market. You can also pull off the adjuster knobs (like the rebound knob on the 5th) to fit it into tighter spaces.
 

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,114
55
Golden, CO
Bad casting? How could you tell? Where was the lowers defective?
Just asking b/c I got one that leaked in transit, and haven't thoroughly inspected it yet to see why...
 

MOTODH

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2005
1,167
0
CT
Sweet review bro, you saved me from writing one. How much difference did the heavier srping make?
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
sbabuser said:
Bad casting? How could you tell? Where was the lowers defective?
Just asking b/c I got one that leaked in transit, and haven't thoroughly inspected it yet to see why...
The M-arch was mis-shaped, there was pitting on the bottom of the m-arch, and the thing leaked oil out the right leg like it was going out of style.

MOTODH said:
Sweet review bro, you saved me from writing one. How much difference did the heavier srping make?
The heavier spring made a huge difference in terms of pedaling and performance. I can pop off of jumps pretty good, and it still feels awesomely plush. I actually would like to try and run a 475# spring (maybe 500#) just to try them out.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
Radarr said:
heavier spring made a huge difference in terms of pedaling and performance. I can pop off of jumps pretty good, and it still feels awesomely plush. I actually would like to try and run a 475# spring (maybe 500#) just to try them out.
So you need a heavier rate spring for a Rocco than you would on a 5th for the same bike?
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
7,674
Transylvania 90210
Zark said:
So you need a heavier rate spring for a Rocco than you would on a 5th for the same bike?
which is what everybody noticed when the 5ths first came out (compared to other shocks, obviously not the Roco). i guess they have been around long enough that people changed their point of reference.
 

Jayridesacove

Turbo Monkey
Feb 21, 2004
1,335
0
Falls Church, VA
stgil888 said:
Thanks for the great review. I appreciate the effort you put into this post. I wish there were more posts like this on Ridemonkey.
One thing I've noticed is, though there are reviews[if you use the search tool], there isn't a section of this site dedicated to reviews.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
7,674
Transylvania 90210
Jayridesacove said:
One thing I've noticed is, though there are reviews[if you use the search tool], there isn't a section of this site dedicated to reviews.
this is the section for product reviews for DH products.
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
Zark said:
So you need a heavier rate spring for a Rocco than you would on a 5th for the same bike?
The 5th has a ton of compression damping, so you can run a lighter spring. The Roco doesn't have nearly that much, so I had to up the spring rate 50# in order to get it to feel right.
 

Polandspring88

Superman
Mar 31, 2004
3,066
7
Broomfield, CO
How does that bike ride overall? I have been toying with the idea of picking up a VP-Free as I currently ride a Bullit that is too small for me. I would be using it for lift assisted riding, but a good majority of what we ride around here is definately pedal territory. How does it ride as far as that is concerned? Would you be comfortable taking it on say a 15 mile ride, or would it just get stupid and unmanagable?
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
Polandspring88 said:
How does that bike ride overall? I have been toying with the idea of picking up a VP-Free as I currently ride a Bullit that is too small for me. I would be using it for lift assisted riding, but a good majority of what we ride around here is definately pedal territory. How does it ride as far as that is concerned? Would you be comfortable taking it on say a 15 mile ride, or would it just get stupid and unmanagable?
You could do that. It might not be the best trail bike out there, but you definately could do worse. With a different setup, I'd be stoked to take it on a trail ride. Heck, on Santa Cruz's website, you can get the VP-Free built up as light as $34 and change. That's not too bad at all.

I have a Thomson layback post which makes the cockpit a little more roomy and comfortable for seated-while-pedaling times. It pedals just fine - while seated, I don't get any pedal feedback in the shock. When you stand, then you get it, but it is like that no matter what. As soon as I stand, I get the smaller bike feeling, which I really like in a DH-esq bike. That being said, I really don't trail ride on my Free; it is strictly a go-down type of bike.

For a trailbike that you could DH on, I'd consider running a shorter i2i/stroke shock (8.5x2.5 would lower the BB and only drop the travel to 7.7") with a shorter travel fork, maybe a Boxxer Ride or a Fox 36, or a Marzo 66 SL or something.
 

Jayridesacove

Turbo Monkey
Feb 21, 2004
1,335
0
Falls Church, VA
mandown said:
this is the section for product reviews for DH products.
It would be better if there was a dedicated section...like if you look at the top of the page for example:

home forums photos ride reports reviews

click the link and you're taken to a reviews page where different product reviews are posted.

and have people just submit reviews on products they've used.

it would be less complicated and less retarded than mtbr's review section.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
7,674
Transylvania 90210
Jayridesacove said:
It would be better if there was a dedicated section...like if you look at the top of the page for example:

home forums photos ride reports reviews

click the link and you're taken to a reviews page where different product reviews are posted.

and have people just submit reviews on products they've used.

it would be less complicated and less retarded than mtbr's review section.
yeah, mtbr's format is lame.
nsmb.com has a gear discussion forum. i have not found it to be any better than searching here. not sure if it is the focus interest of the members, the members themselves, or some other factor.
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
As long as we're making a review section, we may as well make a forum that is a how-to forum. People can post detailed descriptions of how to do things - ie, bleed brakes, tune derailleurs, or rebuilding SRAM shifters (like the really kick-ass one I did a while back when I had my buddy's nice dSLR for pictures).

Tips and tricks or something like that.
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
Yeah, that's where I posted my Sram rebuild how-to. Only thing is that most people won't be smart enough to realize that Q&A means questions AND answers.
 

bjanga

Turbo Monkey
Dec 25, 2004
1,356
0
San Diego
My friend rides a vp-free with beefy tires and a white brothers DH fork. The thing is a pig, but he rides it everywhere. I imagine it would be fine if you are strong/have some light parts/are willing to run 2.35" or 2.5" tires.
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,358
0
Malaysia
the free still bobs if you are out of the saddle and doing slow revolutions, but once you are sprinting it doesn't bob at all. thats with a dhx at min propedal. the 5th kept the bike still even when you are out of the saddle climbing.
 

Superdeft

Monkey
Dec 4, 2003
863
0
East Coast
Radarr said:
...

If anyone is skeptical about the "lost" energy of riding a shock without a pedal platform, chew on this: for every second you potentially lose due to energy lost to the rear shock, you're gaining 3 because of the performance of the rear end of your bike. I was riding faster, jumping further that I ever did. I was smoking all my buddies down the trail who were beating me at races last year (one with a VP-Free as well, but with the 5th instead of the Roco). Swapping out the rear shock on your bike will do the same thing for you, too.
Radarr I think you make an excellent point here (and of course stop me if I misinterpret): that the "platform" damping trade-off for better pedaling is that many of those setups will skip over stuff (less "sensitive," or "plush," in RM terms.)

This implies that the tire will be on the ground less of the time with harder more infrequent contact, whereas a more active shock will stay in more frequent and steady contact with the ground, letting one pick up more forward velocity compared to the prior setup, not to mention better handling on turns and tactile feedback to yer dome.

Is that something like how you feel about the ROCO?
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,358
0
Malaysia
Superdeft said:
This implies that the tire will be on the ground less of the time with harder more infrequent contact, whereas a more active shock will stay in more frequent and steady contact with the ground, letting one pick up more forward velocity compared to the prior setup, not to mention better handling on turns and tactile feedback to yer dome.
wow, thats super technical stuff. basically meaning what ever you loose on the pedaling you gain much more over technical parts. and the vpp pedals really well for dh, because in dh most of the time its sprinting, high revolution. and the bike stays pretty still.
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
Superdeft said:
Radarr I think you make an excellent point here (and of course stop me if I misinterpret): that the "platform" damping trade-off for better pedaling is that many of those setups will skip over stuff (less "sensitive," or "plush," in RM terms.)

This implies that the tire will be on the ground less of the time with harder more infrequent contact, whereas a more active shock will stay in more frequent and steady contact with the ground, letting one pick up more forward velocity compared to the prior setup, not to mention better handling on turns and tactile feedback to yer dome.

Is that something like how you feel about the ROCO?
In a nut shell, yes. One thing that I really did not like about the 5th Element is that the shock always moved so slow, both through the compression and rebound. Even with everything adjusted to be at low rebound and 0 compression, the shock still didn't move very quickly. In other words, the shock's adjustments did not really make for what I'd call "a good ride". I don't think that is the platform, I think it is more the compression/rebound valving of the shock. The 5th might not be as smooth as a more active shock, but for the most part, it sticks pretty well. The rebound on the two shocks is about the same - the 5th might be a little less quick, but not by much.

With the Roco, the rear end of the bike just tracks better over the ground - like you're floating over stuff instead of riding through it. It was like the 2" of negative travel you get with the Free and the VPP system was actually being used. Before, it just felt like there was less travel on the bike. I don't know how to describe it other than "dead". I always felt like the rear end was glued to the ground with the 5th until I rode the Roco. With the 5th, you get more feedback into the rider because the shock is valved with such high compression rates (case and point, the '05 IH Sunday before the free revalves by Progressive). With the Roco, that isn't as much of an issue, so the shock gets more of the feedback.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
7,674
Transylvania 90210
interesting point. there must be a synergy with the right combo of valving and spring rate that makes the shock feel "alive."

the valving of the 5th obviously requires a lighter spring rate (which also gives you more sag). it would seem the intent would be that the lighter spring rate and the speed sensitivity of the 5th valving would allow small bumps to activate the suspension, but prevent big impacts from blowing through travel.

however, the roco is not valved the same way, and requires a stiffer spring rate. this stiffer spring has more implications that just "less sag." it also impacts the quality of the compression in conjunction with the valving, and results in a different rebound feel.

on top of all this, there has got to be some bike frame suspension geometry/leverage issues that compound the complexity.

it is times like this i wish i had a better understanding of physics and engineering :clue: on the other hand, it is fun to not know. then it is like magic, and allows me to speculate on the internet when i have no facts to back up my position.
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
I was going to tell you to just buy an Engineering 101 book until I read your last paragraph.

Actually, I really just sprinkle fairy dust on my rear shock before every ride. It makes it weigh less and shoot flames out the back of the bike so I can jump like 100' in the air. I eat lunch while I'm up in the air.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
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Radarr, feel free to educate me a bit. you can let me know if you agree or disagree with my statements. however, don't pull the curtain back too far as i am not quite ready to see the wizard.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
Radarr, have you tried a DHX on your free? I am looking to replace my 5th soon and have been thinking DHX because the ones I've tried give a feel that is similar to how you describe the Roco but they also have the option of cranking up the platform. I do a fair amount of long, fire road grinds to the top before stopping to gear up and bomb down. In those situations I don't care about small bump compliance on the way up...
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
7,674
Transylvania 90210
any thoughts on the roco for a mid-travel rig? i am looking at it as an option on the transition bottlerocket once it comes out in july (i considered the romic and the dhx too). i have heard from some that a roco on a 5.5" travel rig may not be the best because it will be too active. i am not sure i agree with that statement, but i don't have any experience on the roco either.
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
OGRipper said:
Radarr, have you tried a DHX on your free? I am looking to replace my 5th soon and have been thinking DHX because the ones I've tried give a feel that is similar to how you describe the Roco but they also have the option of cranking up the platform. I do a fair amount of long, fire road grinds to the top before stopping to gear up and bomb down. In those situations I don't care about small bump compliance on the way up...
I have tried the DHX on a Free. My old roommate got one, and it felt really nice. If you're going to be grinding up long fire roads, I really don't know what I'd tell you to get. The DHX is nice just because you have the option of cranking the propedal on, but at the same time, you could just crank the compression knob on the Roco and it might give you a similar effect. I'll try it out and see what it's like with full compression tonight and get back to you.
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
mandown said:
any thoughts on the roco for a mid-travel rig? i am looking at it as an option on the transition bottlerocket once it comes out in july (i considered the romic and the dhx too). i have heard from some that a roco on a 5.5" travel rig may not be the best because it will be too active. i am not sure i agree with that statement, but i don't have any experience on the roco either.
It'll probably be fine - it is a progressive shock. My bet is that it would be a lot like a Z150 or a 6" 66 - it gets the same plush feeling, but just not as much as compared to an 888. And if it's too plush, get a stiffer spring.

If you're planning on using the Bottlerocket as a trail bike, then there might be better shock options out there for you. If you're going to be using it as a freeride/jump/park bike with the occasional long ride thrown in, my guess is that it would be perfect for that bike.

I either want a Roco/66SL or a Swinger(Revox if it'll fit)/Travis Single (like the one on Transition's website) when I get my Bottlerocket (probably at the end of this year).
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
7,674
Transylvania 90210
i currently have a pike that i was considering for the rocket. however, i love the pike on my HT. i was considering the 36VAN or the 66RC as options. lots of peeps are bashing the 36VAN as too linear.

as for the back of the bike, i think the roco might not be a bad choice. the dhx seems like a good option too, since you can turn the pro-pedal off (according to fox's site). any real world experience on the DHX (not the air) contrasting the ride characteristics with the pro-pedal on vs. off?
 

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
mandown said:
any real world experience on the DHX (not the air) contrasting the ride characteristics with the pro-pedal on vs. off?
I don't have any experience with that, no.
 

Biscuit

Turbo Monkey
Feb 12, 2003
1,768
1
Pleasant Hill, CA
Somethings wrong with your grips...or maybee mine are wrong.. hmm.

I literally just picked up my ROCO and 888rc2x for my Sunday.
I'll be putting them on tonight. Just in time for more rain.