Former World Champ Chimes in on Diablo
- Thread starter teamkranzelbike
- Start date
dave xc if done correctly can take more skill then downhill.
You're right, it takes plenty skill to wear Spandex in 10 degree weather....
Dude, hasn't anyone told you?? Handlebars (and whole bikes for that matter) wrapped in plastic are waaay more aerodynamic and faster than those that have been unwrapped. And in addition, the waterproofing the plastic provides makes for the perfect bike for the secret jump I've built into the rope swing pool at the bottom of Diablo.
-Stef
P.S. - Shawn, J/K about the jump, but seriously dude.....something to consider.....or could we at least setup some industrial fans to blow the smell of chlorine the other way on days when it gets above 90 so I don't question my commitment to DH when i'm on the lift??? I mean, some of the people who shouldn't be in two-piece bathing suits at the base help....but sometimes it's hard.
There's a 10 foot cliff jump into the pool at Minerals Spa down the street.
I so want to ride my bike off it, lol
I so want to ride my bike off it, lol
i want a giant screen between us and the water park, gum ball despensers on the lifts, strippers lining each trail, and leather couches at the bottom by the lift.
sounds good!! :
Thanks for everyone's interesting responses to my "Blog" that I did at Mountainbike Mag's request. Now I see why i do not do those much!!
Anyway sorry for pissing off many of you Diablo riders..the intent was to create interest in the idea of getting new resort/Dh/freeriders/whatever riders into the sport. The gripes were intend to help make the experience better..
People seem to concentrate on a few critical things I said about the park, instead of the good things I said about it.
As for SPINTECK, he must know me pretty good, since he appearently has been following me around for the last 20 years or so
"not giving back to the sport" I wonder if he rides on any modern equipment, or raced at the World Cup, Norba Finals, or Norba national events anywhere in colorado, or been to a trade show, or Devo ride camps I do. I must have missed him..Anyway SPINTECH -I need to go back to my ranch and count my money.
I think the discussions were overall productive...But I surely learned that "rants" are best left for drunken dinner tables!
So good luck to all of you "pilots" of any level there in New Jersey area.. Diablo is a sick place to ride..
I am off to France to continue being part of the cycling industry, and try somehow to not piss downhillers off so much.
It would be great to ride Diablo again...but obviously I do not feel too welcome there anymore. But who knows...things tend to change once you start riding..
HBALL
Anyway sorry for pissing off many of you Diablo riders..the intent was to create interest in the idea of getting new resort/Dh/freeriders/whatever riders into the sport. The gripes were intend to help make the experience better..
People seem to concentrate on a few critical things I said about the park, instead of the good things I said about it.
As for SPINTECK, he must know me pretty good, since he appearently has been following me around for the last 20 years or so
"not giving back to the sport" I wonder if he rides on any modern equipment, or raced at the World Cup, Norba Finals, or Norba national events anywhere in colorado, or been to a trade show, or Devo ride camps I do. I must have missed him..Anyway SPINTECH -I need to go back to my ranch and count my money.
I think the discussions were overall productive...But I surely learned that "rants" are best left for drunken dinner tables!
So good luck to all of you "pilots" of any level there in New Jersey area.. Diablo is a sick place to ride..
I am off to France to continue being part of the cycling industry, and try somehow to not piss downhillers off so much.
It would be great to ride Diablo again...but obviously I do not feel too welcome there anymore. But who knows...things tend to change once you start riding..
HBALL
I wouldn't take much of what's said on the internet too seriously or personally man.
For sure, don't let people's comments stop you from expressing your opinion.
For sure, don't let people's comments stop you from expressing your opinion.
I agree with Hball's original blog. If you want the sport to grow, you need it to be more accessable to beginners. While dominion to alpine is rideable by a decent XC rider, there are a boatload of goons that think it is a race course and yell at and tailgate slow riders. It only take one of these goons to run off a newbie forever.
I don't understand why so many expert riders get offended by someone pointing out that easier trails would be good for the sport. does it make you have a smaller weenier if there are trails that your parrents could ride? How about trails that a 8 year old could ride? Just because there are easier trails doesn't mean that the difficult trails will be easier. I didn't hear him suggest that everything should be tame.
Just remember, perception is reality. You can either ignore his remarks and lose potential customers or embrace it and gain customers.
Shawn: a better response would have been to call up Hball and ask him to come help build a beginner trail similar to B-line. Have him sell it to SRAM to help to pay for the trail construction.
I don't understand why so many expert riders get offended by someone pointing out that easier trails would be good for the sport. does it make you have a smaller weenier if there are trails that your parrents could ride? How about trails that a 8 year old could ride? Just because there are easier trails doesn't mean that the difficult trails will be easier. I didn't hear him suggest that everything should be tame.
Just remember, perception is reality. You can either ignore his remarks and lose potential customers or embrace it and gain customers.
Shawn: a better response would have been to call up Hball and ask him to come help build a beginner trail similar to B-line. Have him sell it to SRAM to help to pay for the trail construction.
Chris: With all due respect, a great rider does not necessarily mean a great trailbuilder, no matter who you are or how much you blog. Unless you've spent time building trails at Diablo or similar east coast resorts, you won't understand the difficulties and challenges of building mellow, smooth "beginner friendly" terrain on very technical, steep terrain with limited soil. Lastly, i reiterate, introducing "beginners" to a DH / Freeride Park environment is not a recipe for smart growth, for the rider or for the sport. Its a difficult sport on difficult terrain and I strongly believe that an individual should learn basic off-road biking skills at a less aggressive environment before attempting resort riding.
Would you send your son to a skate park to learn how to skateboard for the very first time? Would you send someone to a BMX track to learn how to ride? Would you send someone interested in learning how to ski or snowboard to a terrain park for the first time? Or, would you send someone who's never skied before up the gondola for the first time? Or would you suggest they learn on more appropriate terrain FIRST, then move-up?
There are plenty of excellent state parks, rail trails and other off-road spots for individuals interested in learning basic mtb skills. At Diablo, we believe in the growth of the sport and contribute in many ways to foster progression, however, for the safety of all of our guests we recommend that they have basic mountain biking skills before riding at the park.
Would you send your son to a skate park to learn how to skateboard for the very first time? Would you send someone to a BMX track to learn how to ride? Would you send someone interested in learning how to ski or snowboard to a terrain park for the first time? Or, would you send someone who's never skied before up the gondola for the first time? Or would you suggest they learn on more appropriate terrain FIRST, then move-up?
There are plenty of excellent state parks, rail trails and other off-road spots for individuals interested in learning basic mtb skills. At Diablo, we believe in the growth of the sport and contribute in many ways to foster progression, however, for the safety of all of our guests we recommend that they have basic mountain biking skills before riding at the park.
Shawn
I agree that you should have basic skills before heading to a bike park. However, even a really good XC rider is going to have a hard time riding most of the trails at Diablo. The problem is that the easier trails at Diablo are the most popular and beginner riders are intimidated by people blowing them off the trails.
Take it for what it is worth, from my standpoint, my wife will not ride at Diablo again since the only trail that she was able to ride was Dominion to Alpine and there were too many a-holes riding it. That limits the amount I can go. Therefore, your out cash. I am sure I am not the only person in this situation.
A thought, why not have a route down the existing fire roads / ski runs?
I am sure you have the best persective on risk/reward though. It's your business.
I agree that you should have basic skills before heading to a bike park. However, even a really good XC rider is going to have a hard time riding most of the trails at Diablo. The problem is that the easier trails at Diablo are the most popular and beginner riders are intimidated by people blowing them off the trails.
Take it for what it is worth, from my standpoint, my wife will not ride at Diablo again since the only trail that she was able to ride was Dominion to Alpine and there were too many a-holes riding it. That limits the amount I can go. Therefore, your out cash. I am sure I am not the only person in this situation.
A thought, why not have a route down the existing fire roads / ski runs?
I am sure you have the best persective on risk/reward though. It's your business.
May I suggest to all that are new to this go first thing in the AM. Its the same thing with boarding. Most of the aggressive people do not show up until noon. I have even been on trails my kids (BMW) and I had to walk. If you just go to the side no one seems to have an issue.
if i had a dollar for every time i've said the very same comments........
while i totally see the point of needing "starter trails".
sometimes the terrain you have to work with just doesn't lend itself to that.
and personally, i'm not going to compromise when i see a patch of mt.side that lends itself to one helluva badass run by turning it into a trail of lesser challenges.
you enter the trailbuilding craft by giving up a lot in the first place, in the form of saddletime and sinking $$$ into the trails that could be used in purchasing you a new ride every year. (my case anyway)
therefore i'm not going to shortchange myself and others by spending the countless hours, days, weeks and months it takes to build a route that's anything less than the best the terrain has to offer.
i doubt folks would be driving the miles it takes to get to diablo, windrock, plattekill etc.... if the trails were mainly geared towards riders with lesser experience and skills.
to me it's a great cycle.
bikes are more capable than ever of blistering down ever more challenging routes.
therefore i/we build towards the edge of what we're able to do on them.
and then bikes and riders jump up another level.
and so on and so on.
it's easy to get left behind as the sport grows.
but those of us that are committed to giving riders a place to ride can't sit back and wait for others to catch up.
the ones around here who fall between the cracks, are the ones who don't ride that much to begin with.
i wonder how many who are wanting easier trails fall into that same category ?
i beg to differ!
these guys kill it all the time, and they're XC guys 10000%
http://www.nycmtb.com/video/Diablo-27-May-07.mov
not true at all. all trails can be easily ridden on a hardtail xc bike. I have proved it, but riding them fast is another thing. you only do need basic off road biking skills and your set for diablo. my frist time i walked a lot of the trails. I got better as i rode throughout the season. My skill level is much higher, yes i now ride an 8 inch travel downhill bike. but i am still good on my xc bike. everyone rides for fun, noone forces you to ride diablo, and clearly noone with a decent head on their shoulders will recomend it either.
before last year i have not gotten on a bike since i was 16, i started riding again i was 30....
the first bike i got was a Norco Aline.... and i went to DIABLO....
I hit the easy stuff, ate it a couple of times, but got back up and keep riding... after about 3 months i was hitting everything except the bigger drops at Diablo....
1 year later, i have a better bike and alot more skill... and am excited every time when i'm headed there Saturday mornings.... (like a kid opening Xmas gifts)
i was a beginner last year, every weekend i was black and blued... sore... moral of the story is: if a person want to do something he'll do it no matter the cost/pain involved.....
i do it because i love riding... it hurts as hell sometimes but i do it.... leave Creek the way it is, it's perfect for beginners and the advanced.
the first bike i got was a Norco Aline.... and i went to DIABLO....
I hit the easy stuff, ate it a couple of times, but got back up and keep riding... after about 3 months i was hitting everything except the bigger drops at Diablo....
1 year later, i have a better bike and alot more skill... and am excited every time when i'm headed there Saturday mornings.... (like a kid opening Xmas gifts)
i was a beginner last year, every weekend i was black and blued... sore... moral of the story is: if a person want to do something he'll do it no matter the cost/pain involved.....
i do it because i love riding... it hurts as hell sometimes but i do it.... leave Creek the way it is, it's perfect for beginners and the advanced.
all you have to do is wake up in the morning, inhale and exhale.
and that's enough to piss off most downhillers.
Joey
Windrock is a different case than Diablo. You build trails for you and friends to ride. They are a ton of fun. As long as you don't lose a boat load of money, hopefully, you will keep building. Again, keep doing what your doing, it's great.
Diablo and other bike parks are a commercial enterprise. If they don't make money long term, then they eventually close. Riders leave the sport all of the time due to various reasons. For long term stability, more riders need to enter the sport than leave the sport. To ensure this it needs to be easier for them to enter the sport. Shawn has conciously made the decision to limit the entry level for buisness reasons (insurance cost).
You guys all all getting my point wrong anyway. Shawn and Diablo are doing more good for the sport than most any other place I can think of. It is close to NYC and makes it accessable to a ton of people. The trails are great and the lift is awesome. It's just a suggestion to improve.
Who has been to whistler? They do some things better and some things way worse. For instance, I wouldn't dare to get more than 10 foot from my bike in the village. Where as I haven't heard of a problem with that at Diablo. On the other hand, their lift system doesn't scratch bikes. Personally, I don't care about that but I have witnessed people getting upset over having their bikes resting on the lift.
Windrock is a different case than Diablo. You build trails for you and friends to ride. They are a ton of fun. As long as you don't lose a boat load of money, hopefully, you will keep building. Again, keep doing what your doing, it's great.
Diablo and other bike parks are a commercial enterprise. If they don't make money long term, then they eventually close. Riders leave the sport all of the time due to various reasons. For long term stability, more riders need to enter the sport than leave the sport. To ensure this it needs to be easier for them to enter the sport. Shawn has conciously made the decision to limit the entry level for buisness reasons (insurance cost).
You guys all all getting my point wrong anyway. Shawn and Diablo are doing more good for the sport than most any other place I can think of. It is close to NYC and makes it accessable to a ton of people. The trails are great and the lift is awesome. It's just a suggestion to improve.
Who has been to whistler? They do some things better and some things way worse. For instance, I wouldn't dare to get more than 10 foot from my bike in the village. Where as I haven't heard of a problem with that at Diablo. On the other hand, their lift system doesn't scratch bikes. Personally, I don't care about that but I have witnessed people getting upset over having their bikes resting on the lift.
We were working on making some begginer option lines at Highlands, trust me its not easy. I would have much rather kept the fast steep rock faces instead of making switchbacks but you have to make the costumer happy, and that is what it comes down to. Making nice smooth trails on the east coast is hard, but it has been done, so maybe its time we make bike resorts more like there snowboard/ski resorts and have full time lessons and trails for everyone?
I'm somewhat torn between the multiple sides of this argument. I believe theres some trails at diablo that beginners could easily do, if they chose to ride there, but it would be a lot more fun for them if they improved a lot either after riding dominion and breakout and alpine 23512353 times or riding some place else thats just easy trails.
For example, my dad takes me to races and such and thinks downhill is possibly one of the coolest sports ever. He decided i think at the US open that he wants to try it sometime soon. Rather than just go right out and try it at diablo, which i've told him its possible for him to do, he's been making me wake up early and ride the local non-DH trails with him so that he gains these "basic off-road biking skills." So far hes doing pretty well, i've got him riding some fun and slightly challenging rock gardens and hes getting better. He'll have more fun at diablo because he'll be able to ride more trails. He could start biking there, just i dont see it as being such a good idea (although dave t kinda proves me wrong) or all that much fun for him.
I've always thought of downhilling as being like the supreme top hard thing about biking. You often wear full armor and fullfaces, etc, and its just not something you would try/do unless you have the skill and balls to do it. Herbold's got a point about building easier trails, they would probably bring in more people, but its up to Shawn and the diablo crew if they want to do that. They've already provided us with an awesome mountain, so me and many of the people who are posting in this forum are happy. If everyone at Diablo is satisfied with what they have, like the killer trails and support from countless numbers of riders, keep it up. It's just his opinion about the beginner trails, adding more easy trails could bring in more people, but if they were like me and thought of downhill as being hard, then they probably wont DH until they feel they're ready.
I agree about the padded lift, i'm gonna go put an old tube on my bike now haha.
For example, my dad takes me to races and such and thinks downhill is possibly one of the coolest sports ever. He decided i think at the US open that he wants to try it sometime soon. Rather than just go right out and try it at diablo, which i've told him its possible for him to do, he's been making me wake up early and ride the local non-DH trails with him so that he gains these "basic off-road biking skills." So far hes doing pretty well, i've got him riding some fun and slightly challenging rock gardens and hes getting better. He'll have more fun at diablo because he'll be able to ride more trails. He could start biking there, just i dont see it as being such a good idea (although dave t kinda proves me wrong) or all that much fun for him.
I've always thought of downhilling as being like the supreme top hard thing about biking. You often wear full armor and fullfaces, etc, and its just not something you would try/do unless you have the skill and balls to do it. Herbold's got a point about building easier trails, they would probably bring in more people, but its up to Shawn and the diablo crew if they want to do that. They've already provided us with an awesome mountain, so me and many of the people who are posting in this forum are happy. If everyone at Diablo is satisfied with what they have, like the killer trails and support from countless numbers of riders, keep it up. It's just his opinion about the beginner trails, adding more easy trails could bring in more people, but if they were like me and thought of downhill as being hard, then they probably wont DH until they feel they're ready.
I agree about the padded lift, i'm gonna go put an old tube on my bike now haha.
yeah chris.
and i consider you, john and the highgear team the very friends that i'm here building for.
right now the issue of "easier trails" and signage has run its course with me.
Hball,
I'm jealous! Not of your money, not of your skill, not even of your hot wife…..but I am jealous of the power and influence you have to make change. How many different corporate labels can you run programs for now?? Probably more than I know. Almost everyone reading this thread would love to have your influence to grow the sport.
You have the power to go to Canada and France at the drop of a hat and study why more people get involved in MTB and downhilling and how we could implement those cultural ideas here.
You have the power to not only write for Mountain Bike, but actually be RECRUITED to write for Mountain Bike. Keep doing it, but be positive. I read once w/respect to personal relationships it takes 9 positive statements to make up for 1 negative one.
You have the power to call up mountains like Shawn's and co-sponsor a small, beginner bump track/slope without the need for a lift and very, very low risk. So the next time some interested people ask how they could get involved at an event just refer them to the Hball Bunny Bump Track.
You have the power to sponsor/stimulate College mountain bike clubs to apply for equipment grants. Intramural college clubs and kids have no money, but they have free time and free van rental, so all they need are some organization and equipment.
You have the power to sponsor video contests, which also allows participation of non-racers, moms, dads and girlfriends to be involved by filming or developing unique concepts. You could probably even have your own Hball Downhill Film festival at an event and people would attend.
You have the power to call up other world/national champions and say," Okay, you're great on the bike, but these are some service ideas I could use some help with to grow the sport"………and they'd do it.
You have the power to be part of the current downhill online community and everyone would be interested to read your threads. (The first time you come online shouldn't be because of arrogant rants, but now that you're here, stay and indulge us)
You have the power to target a city/town and sponsor a film on downhilling on a local cable channel. (It costs $250 a month in my area for a 4 week 1 hour program)
You probably have enough power to form your own committee and make a national network for developmental programs. A little organization and unity goes a long way.
Until your fellow Champions and Big Guns start running some programs, we need to give the guys that do the utmost respect and support. If you make real change, people will recognize you when you're 60. So don't go home to your ranch in Colorado, come back to Diablo and ride with the locals and staff. And forgive me for thinking more of your potential than you're most recent blog.
I'm jealous! Not of your money, not of your skill, not even of your hot wife…..but I am jealous of the power and influence you have to make change. How many different corporate labels can you run programs for now?? Probably more than I know. Almost everyone reading this thread would love to have your influence to grow the sport.
You have the power to go to Canada and France at the drop of a hat and study why more people get involved in MTB and downhilling and how we could implement those cultural ideas here.
You have the power to not only write for Mountain Bike, but actually be RECRUITED to write for Mountain Bike. Keep doing it, but be positive. I read once w/respect to personal relationships it takes 9 positive statements to make up for 1 negative one.
You have the power to call up mountains like Shawn's and co-sponsor a small, beginner bump track/slope without the need for a lift and very, very low risk. So the next time some interested people ask how they could get involved at an event just refer them to the Hball Bunny Bump Track.
You have the power to sponsor/stimulate College mountain bike clubs to apply for equipment grants. Intramural college clubs and kids have no money, but they have free time and free van rental, so all they need are some organization and equipment.
You have the power to sponsor video contests, which also allows participation of non-racers, moms, dads and girlfriends to be involved by filming or developing unique concepts. You could probably even have your own Hball Downhill Film festival at an event and people would attend.
You have the power to call up other world/national champions and say," Okay, you're great on the bike, but these are some service ideas I could use some help with to grow the sport"………and they'd do it.
You have the power to be part of the current downhill online community and everyone would be interested to read your threads. (The first time you come online shouldn't be because of arrogant rants, but now that you're here, stay and indulge us)
You have the power to target a city/town and sponsor a film on downhilling on a local cable channel. (It costs $250 a month in my area for a 4 week 1 hour program)
You probably have enough power to form your own committee and make a national network for developmental programs. A little organization and unity goes a long way.
Until your fellow Champions and Big Guns start running some programs, we need to give the guys that do the utmost respect and support. If you make real change, people will recognize you when you're 60. So don't go home to your ranch in Colorado, come back to Diablo and ride with the locals and staff. And forgive me for thinking more of your potential than you're most recent blog.
Objectively, I'd have to say the article was alright.
I've done a couple of years worth of downhilling abroad about 7 (?) years ago & have gotten back into DH/FR just last year after riding Diablo 3 times towards the end of the season (w/c drew me to get a new bike w/ more travel - nice!). Rode Diablo just once (for now) a week after it opened this year. Diablo rules!
Anyway, Diablo's terrain really doesn't lend itself to "easy" trails (I do trail maintenance at my local statepark regularly) & I'd agree that we shouldn't make a potentially nice burly section into a smooth, "easy" one. That's a waste of real estate! But I do agree that one or two more "easy" trails would be beneficially to the area. I don't know what the agreement is between Intrawest & Diablo but, a trail could be made on the ski slope. And correct me if I'm wrong but that was how a lot of DH trails were like more than 10 years ago & that has to be a "beginner" trail by today's standard. The ski slope is so wide that you could make the trail snake down the mountain. If this could be done, that would be nice! I'd help out & add to the manpower as it's a huge undertaking.
Signs. Yep, Diablo needs bigger or clearer signs. My first time out there last year, it was quite difficult to find where the intermediate trail goes while enjoying the trail. I'm not one to complain about this but in the context of other "jaded" (for lack of a better word) individuals, it could be a hassle for them (I don't see how, really. IT IS mountainbiking.). And looking at it from the insurance aspect, it'll make it safer for riders who do not know the place from getting hurt say,from crossing advanced trails or inadvertently getting on a trail too rocky for them to handle. It's not really for the locals but everyone else who goes to Diablo for the first few times.
The article really didn't clarify what a beginner is. Downhilling or freeriding is a dangerous activity. It is the responsibility of the rider to know his/her limits. I fully agree that before going to Diablo, or any bike resort for that matter, riders should build their skills first - be it on your local trails or just clearing sections of stairs or ledges in whatever corner of the world you live in. Now that doesn't mean you can't build your skills in Diablo, but if you're the I'll-sue-you-when-I-get-hurt-riding-your-place kind'a person, get your s**t together down the stairs of your deck or whatever before buying that lift ticket.
Protecting the downtube... I think it's a psychological thing. The scratch you get from resting your frame on the gondola doesn't compare to the scratches, paint chips, dings & dents you get riding the mountain.
Sculptures being scary... This I have to say, "You kidding me?! You have to be kidding..." The name of the place is "DIABLO", you want angel sculptures all over the place? C'mon...
Oh, and hi to everyone! It's my first post. LOL!
I've done a couple of years worth of downhilling abroad about 7 (?) years ago & have gotten back into DH/FR just last year after riding Diablo 3 times towards the end of the season (w/c drew me to get a new bike w/ more travel - nice!). Rode Diablo just once (for now) a week after it opened this year. Diablo rules!
Anyway, Diablo's terrain really doesn't lend itself to "easy" trails (I do trail maintenance at my local statepark regularly) & I'd agree that we shouldn't make a potentially nice burly section into a smooth, "easy" one. That's a waste of real estate! But I do agree that one or two more "easy" trails would be beneficially to the area. I don't know what the agreement is between Intrawest & Diablo but, a trail could be made on the ski slope. And correct me if I'm wrong but that was how a lot of DH trails were like more than 10 years ago & that has to be a "beginner" trail by today's standard. The ski slope is so wide that you could make the trail snake down the mountain. If this could be done, that would be nice! I'd help out & add to the manpower as it's a huge undertaking.
Signs. Yep, Diablo needs bigger or clearer signs. My first time out there last year, it was quite difficult to find where the intermediate trail goes while enjoying the trail. I'm not one to complain about this but in the context of other "jaded" (for lack of a better word) individuals, it could be a hassle for them (I don't see how, really. IT IS mountainbiking.). And looking at it from the insurance aspect, it'll make it safer for riders who do not know the place from getting hurt say,from crossing advanced trails or inadvertently getting on a trail too rocky for them to handle. It's not really for the locals but everyone else who goes to Diablo for the first few times.
The article really didn't clarify what a beginner is. Downhilling or freeriding is a dangerous activity. It is the responsibility of the rider to know his/her limits. I fully agree that before going to Diablo, or any bike resort for that matter, riders should build their skills first - be it on your local trails or just clearing sections of stairs or ledges in whatever corner of the world you live in. Now that doesn't mean you can't build your skills in Diablo, but if you're the I'll-sue-you-when-I-get-hurt-riding-your-place kind'a person, get your s**t together down the stairs of your deck or whatever before buying that lift ticket.
Protecting the downtube... I think it's a psychological thing. The scratch you get from resting your frame on the gondola doesn't compare to the scratches, paint chips, dings & dents you get riding the mountain.
Sculptures being scary... This I have to say, "You kidding me?! You have to be kidding..." The name of the place is "DIABLO", you want angel sculptures all over the place? C'mon...
Oh, and hi to everyone! It's my first post. LOL!
Welcome to ridemonkey.
I am sure hball was being sarcastic about the sculptures.
I am sure hball was being sarcastic about the sculptures.
you never know
Just adding my 2 cents:
1. If you put your own bike on the lift carefully, you won't scratch it.
2. I would like easier trails there also. For my less skilled friends, and for me too. I can ride anything there, I love riding the mountain, but, can't risk getting hurt and not going to work. Plus smoking down an easy trail is awesome.
3. If someone is pissed off because they come up behind a beginner on Alpine, it's their own fault. Everyone rests/waits at the top. Usually the beginer lets all the other psychos go first anyway.
4. As for signs and such, how many of you have even found the trail section (don't know the name) with the 4 part raised section consisting of bridges and logs all together? Probably about 100 feet long in total.
5. My biggest bitch: Riding/pushing my downhill bike, uphill to the new trails. WTF? Seen on a sticker - "If you see this bike being ridden uphill, call the police"
6. Easiest way down signs need to be replaced. I have rescued 2 groups this year, panicing on deliverence.
If you want to see H-ball ride, get the Tread and Re-tread movies. Very long, but informative.
Shut up and ride.
1. If you put your own bike on the lift carefully, you won't scratch it.
2. I would like easier trails there also. For my less skilled friends, and for me too. I can ride anything there, I love riding the mountain, but, can't risk getting hurt and not going to work. Plus smoking down an easy trail is awesome.
3. If someone is pissed off because they come up behind a beginner on Alpine, it's their own fault. Everyone rests/waits at the top. Usually the beginer lets all the other psychos go first anyway.
4. As for signs and such, how many of you have even found the trail section (don't know the name) with the 4 part raised section consisting of bridges and logs all together? Probably about 100 feet long in total.
5. My biggest bitch: Riding/pushing my downhill bike, uphill to the new trails. WTF? Seen on a sticker - "If you see this bike being ridden uphill, call the police"
6. Easiest way down signs need to be replaced. I have rescued 2 groups this year, panicing on deliverence.
If you want to see H-ball ride, get the Tread and Re-tread movies. Very long, but informative.
Shut up and ride.
So don't ride those trails...
The Best trail overall at Northstar is a good 1 1/4 mile flat/uphill pedal from the top of the lift.
...And VERY well worth it
I don't know, but i wish upper breakout could have been longer, but.... i have a new found love for Tempest... man that trail is worth the hike, walk, ride etc....
i hit tempest last week about 7 times and an 8th for pics.. it was nuts.... we went fast and faster every time.
I'm one of those guys that doesn't rest his frame on the lift for fear of frame/stanction scratches...
but ends up taking chucks out of it when I thow it down in (enter trail's name here) rock garden.
Yes, I can admit my own irony.
but ends up taking chucks out of it when I thow it down in (enter trail's name here) rock garden.
Yes, I can admit my own irony.
Are you refering to Careless Whisper?
Or something newer?
Haven't been to Diablo since I tore my ACL on exodos. I miss that place!
While I can fully understand Shawns position expecially since Diablo is hopefully in it's infancy. I can also understand HB position and while I don't know him personally, I read his blog as if he were talking on the many videos I've seen him on and I thought some of the "negative" comments are really just his personallity that maybe doesn't translate to the written word.
I look forward to riding Diablo again(maybe next year) and hope to see new trails and features in both directions. I would love to see a SuperD type of course and race series there.
lthumbsdown:I usually try to stay out of internet debates these days, but I keep seeing the suggestion of using the ski trails as beginner trails. Anybody that rides Mountain Creek (in the winter) should know that the easiest (read: flattest) ski trail is trail the fire road that runs alongside Lower Dominion, Upper Breakout, Lower Breakout, and from Alpine. The terrain on the mountain does not really allow this type of trail to be turned into a mountain bike trail and definitely not an easy mountain bike trail. I wouldn't be surprised if that fire road claims more people than some of the harder trails on the mountain.
All of the other ski trails (that start around the top or mid mountain) basically run straight down the mountain and are much to steep for beginner type trails. The resources needed to build a true beginners way down from the top would be astronomical as it would likely need to have dirt imported as well as excavation work the entire way down. As many people have said, Diablo is still in its very early years and this would probably not be a smart investment at this point in time.
Actually anyone that has experience at a variety of other mountains around here (Killington, Gore, Whiteface) can easily find that ski trails are often the hardest riding- steep, rough and with random bomb holes everywhere. Putting beginners down a ski slope would be the last thing we should do.
Whiteface Has One Or Two Trails That Run Down Skislopes
For Those Who Know "the Face" Ex: Valley Swichback
For Those Who Know "the Face" Ex: Valley Swichback
Not to start a debate but that's why when I mentioned to use the ski slope (& by this I mean the green circle trail during winter) you'll have to do trailwork making the mtb trail "snake" down the ski slope - much like carving your snowboard or skis down the same trail in the winter. You could even control riders' speed by doing this.
I do agree that it is a huge undertaking. You don't necessarily need to import dirt but the digging, stomping, boulder clearing as well as putting up markers (such as tape, etc.) require huge amount of manpower & money. In any case, it was just a suggestion in light of the article written about Diablo. I like Diablo as it is & would continue to ride there regardless of whatever difficulty of trails the mountain offers.
Not to start a debate but that's why when I mentioned to use the ski slope (& by this I mean the green circle trail during winter) you'll have to do trailwork making the mtb trail "snake" down the ski slope - much like carving your snowboard or skis down the same trail in the winter. You could even control riders' speed by doing this.
I do agree that it is a huge undertaking. You don't necessarily need to import dirt but the digging, stomping, boulder clearing as well as putting up markers (such as tape, etc.) require huge amount of manpower & money. In any case, it was just a suggestion in light of the article written about Diablo. I like Diablo as it is & would continue to ride there regardless of whatever difficulty of trails the mountain offers.
Have you ever seen what that trail looks like after it rains? It has typically been known that the Diablo Trail Crew does not build trails that are not sustainable. If they ever did build a trail like that, it would take a VERY long time and have to be completley fixed every time it rains.