Let's continue here.
Get trained, get qualified, get hired
- Thread starter mrbigisbudgood
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Mocha, I don't know your age, but things back in the 70's were radically different from what they are now. There was still alot of racial tension in the 70's. The black panthers were still active, Mexicans were just a bunch of ditch digging drunks, that whole thing.
I just don't think the situation is as bad as you make it out to be.
I just don't think the situation is as bad as you make it out to be.
70's??? Um...I grew up in the late 80's - early 90's. At 33, I'm only a few years older than you. Yes, things are better than they used to be. But if you think racial tension doesn't exist, you're sadly mistaken.
I didn't say it doesn't exist, I know it does, I'm the only non white person in my department. Heck that David Duke moron makes a big speech here in town every year, I'd like to see that guy get drug down the street and.......nevermind.
Come on and say it.............................................Get his head blown off:devil:
too quick and painless
How about starting with removing each finger and toe nail with needle nose pliers:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
I have a feeling that the "race" issue is still going strong. I know that in my community racism is still rampant. I'm of Mexican heritage and also a UK mutt. I have stated before that my Mexican relatives are just as rascist as my Anglo ones. I'm of the same generation as you Mocha and we have seen some progress but there is still room to improve.
That said Affimative Action is a flawed system. I am literally stalked on campus by First Peoples which is my schools minority support agency. They don't understand why I will not join. It's really quite simple, I don't feel like a club who's requirment for entry is racial is right regardless of the intent of the group. It creates a very real division, not just the societal one that lies under the surface.
So what is the solution? Hell who knows? I just know I try very hard to keep an open mind and atempt to not get caught up in the mob mentality of judging people by the color of their skin. It's funny (sad) that it is nearly acceptable to bash Middle Easterns in todays society. Ramble/Rant off...
That said Affimative Action is a flawed system. I am literally stalked on campus by First Peoples which is my schools minority support agency. They don't understand why I will not join. It's really quite simple, I don't feel like a club who's requirment for entry is racial is right regardless of the intent of the group. It creates a very real division, not just the societal one that lies under the surface.
So what is the solution? Hell who knows? I just know I try very hard to keep an open mind and atempt to not get caught up in the mob mentality of judging people by the color of their skin. It's funny (sad) that it is nearly acceptable to bash Middle Easterns in todays society. Ramble/Rant off...
What affirmative action does is create the idea that minorities need protection, which implies that they are indeed not equal.
I never joined any of those race clubs either. When asked why I don't......"Well, that's a racist thing to do isn't it" and that is the way I see it. Racism will not stop until EVERYONE drops the issue. Blacks, asians, canadians, EVERYONE. It's a pigment in the skin. It's a different facial feature.
Middle Easterners can be bashed today because they are the "enemy". But it doesn't make it right.
i am of middle eastern origin(lebanese) and even in a country as accepting as canada that has really pushed for equality there is still that feeling that your are tolerated but never really accepted.
As for the get trained get hired,imo theres no excuse for being a slacker BUT you have to give every minority a stable nourshiring environnement so they can have a fighting chance in the workmarket and dont have to fight twice as hard to get to the same place as the next guy.
As for the get trained get hired,imo theres no excuse for being a slacker BUT you have to give every minority a stable nourshiring environnement so they can have a fighting chance in the workmarket and dont have to fight twice as hard to get to the same place as the next guy.
Lebanese, eh? I really dig hot lebanese action!
I mean, erm....
come on now dont be shy!!!Originally posted by Tenchiro
Lebanese, eh? I really dig hot lebanese action!
I mean, erm....
I couldn't agree more. Here's the problem: there's a huge socio-economic division. Even if racism didn't exist, the socio-economic division would. Now socio-economic divisions are perfectly normal in a capitalist society... they should the result of differences in hard-work and natural talent between members of the population.
In addition, there is not as much social mobility and equal opportunity as we claim. Being born into wealth provides much greater opportunities (George W is a perfect example). Again, nothing inherently wrong with this; we make money so we can provide better lives and opportunities for our children. However, when you work your way down the income ladder those opportunites become exponentially worse, until you reach the level where a person is surrounded by nothing that could convince him/her of the value of education. This is socio-economic, not racial. Poor whites behave the same way as poor mexicans and poor blacks...
But now factor in this. The poor whites ended up in their situation because they or their ancestors were not as smart/motivated/lucky as other whites. The minorities had to deal with the above variables, PLUS all the racist crap that American society has been through in the last couple hundred years. In a land where social mobility is not that ideal, this is a serious handicap. Affirmative action is trying to rectify the situation through a booster shot economically to those minorities, so the playing field is level, and then it can disappear and let everyone play Capitalist ball. To be honest, I'm for it in schools and mostly against it in the work place for many of the reasons mentioned before... but if it takes just one generation to work, then I guess the ends justify the means.
Huh. That "ends justifies the means" stuff sure sounds sweeter when it's in regards to overseas war, doesn't it?see how he pulls it all back together?
Now for these unclaimed scholarships... In Georgia, the state will pay full state college tuition for any highschool student with a B+ (I think) average or above. An amazing program. Hundreds of middle and upper class kids take advantage of the program every year. Very few lower class (of any race) use this scholarship. Why? Because they're lazy and unmotivated? No. Because they don't even know about it. They don't have internet access. They don't have teachers and counselors pointing this stuff out to them. They're floating in a limbo with zero encouragement. A small small minority of them figure this stuff out on their own.
Until public schools actually start providing an equal education, affirmative action admissions that puts minorities into white collar jobs is about the only thing that will start a cycle of success that can demonstrate the value of education in some of the nations poorest neighborhoods.
I'd disagree there, I think AA tries to make up for environmental inequalities--- leave it to the racists to read what you're saying into it. (not implying anything about you).
Both ideas are not mutually exclusive, what I was trying to say is that these programs meant to protect people also create ideas. If put a program is put in place to aid or protect a certain class, you are also making a statement that says they are unable to do for themselves no matter what the original intentions were. This goes for all groups, not necessarily racial minorities.
You can't legislate fairness, that only masks the symptom of a greater problem. When program like this are enacted it forces people to concentrate more on peoples differences, and less on the ability of the individual.
This can also cause the mentality that people don't have to try as hard, because they won't be judged as stringently as someone who is in the majority. This leads to assumptions on both sides of the coin, complacency in one hand, and resentment on the other.
The only real way to alleviate these problems is to teach people to ignore our differences all together and realize we are all the same on the inside.
Sure, they're good too. I didn't pick Bush because he was a Republican, I picked him because he's the "leader of the free world." The next Kennedy that obtains that position will likely be a ripe candidate for the same criticism.
There's lots of examples of people obtaining high-powered positions through wealth and privilege... not so many through affirmative action.
I missed the first part of this thread...I'm guessing this was continued from somewhere else...anyone care to share a link?.....D
It's from Burly Surly's thread "this pisses me off".
Hmmm.........fine then.......
I propose that white people whose families made under 30,000 per year be applied to the quotas to be filled under affirmative action.
So you didn't read my post did you?
Yup, our society treats those people like crap too (the line is actually in the teens, not 30k which is middle class).
Better public school funding would address the problem you cite above in an equal/fair/non-discriminatory manner. Unfortunately, there's not much money left over from defense, social security, and tax cuts to pay for that. And what pocket change we do put into education for the most part comes too late and to kids that don't *really* need it.
Well yes, i did, but i was responding to PatConnole.
Perhaps this is already the way it is, but i think that if equal money were given to schools in porportion to size, and AA were simply abolished, that would be the only non-descriminitory way.
You know, money isnt always the answer. Take for instance the State of Hawaii School System. I think it is considered the worst in the country, yet it doesnt have the smallest budget, and the teachers make decent money. Im not implying that the people are less intelligent, but that the culture they're brought up in plays a significant role in how they develop as people. Or rather, how they develop as worker bees in our hive.
Which one? Polynesian, Western European, Chinese, or Japanese? It's hard to argue that the latter three are lazy as a culture, and there's not really much left of the original between disease and inter-cultural marriage. Hawaii actually has some great schools, even some great public schools. But non-whites weren't allowed into the good ones until sometime this century*.
*note: basing my understanding of Hawaiian History on Mitchner's "Hawaii" so I won't claim any specific knowledge.
edit: Yes, money isn't always the answer but it definitely helps, especially when intelligent policy is a rare commodity.
I meant the overall culture of the state. You know, Aloha fridays. Beaches, surfing is life......
I wasnt referring to race, but rather the level of importance put on school by people who live there's families......or something.
quote:
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Originally posted by patconnole
I'd disagree there, I think AA tries to make up for environmental inequalities
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..... resulting from systematic ethnic discrimination.
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Originally posted by patconnole
I'd disagree there, I think AA tries to make up for environmental inequalities
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..... resulting from systematic ethnic discrimination.
Actually, the best schools in Hawaii, Damien, and the Punahou school were closed to people of non-hawaiian decent until a few years ago. The Kamehameha school still is. These are private schools, but the Kamehameha school subsidises tuition through land grant revenue.
The public schools in Hawaii are among the worst in the nation. The high schools don't have enough books for the students to bring their textbooks home at night to study and on more than one occasion parents have been forced to buy steel folding chairs at costco because the school didn't have enough for all the kids to sit down in their classes. The state's prisoners are taken better care of than the students.