[Bulldog]

Does tubeless, specifically ghetto tubeless (homemade rimstrips and Stan's) work well when it sits for extended periods? Like during winter when a bike may not move for weeks/months at a time? I'm asking cuz it's that time of year for me, more time off at work and less time on the bike (heck, I don't even have a fork right now), so I like to play around with my setups. I was thinking of going tubeless with my own setup, just for fun. My XC superlight tubes worked well this year and made a noticeable difference in accleration, but failed pretty bad in the microscopic thorn puncture department, which got expensive. I'll use regular tubes if need-be, but for now I'll play.

Should I wait until just before spring riding time comes to try this tubeless, or if I top my tires off and spin them every 1-2 weeks will that be enough or do they need to be ridden/spun every couple of days? Thanks.

 

[CBJ]

Uhhhh Scary is not going to be happy again.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

my ghetto tubless set up (bmx tube and Stan's) has been sitting since August of this year and could use maybe alittle air.

hell, normal tubes typically can't sit for months or years without alittle attention. So it's not a knock against tubless.

joel

 

[Bulldog]

my ghetto tubless set up (bmx tube and Stan's) has been sitting since August of this year and could use maybe alittle air.

hell, normal tubes typically can't sit for months or years without alittle attention. So it's not a knock against tubless.

joel

That's what I wanted to hear. I know all tires/tubes need some attention, but I was mostly concerned that if the sealant wasn't circulating on a regular basis that the system would "give up the ghost" easily. Sounds like your setup did not - good for me. Thanks.

 

[Westy]

After a long period of time the latex tends to dry up.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

That's what I wanted to hear. I know all tires/tubes need some attention, but I was mostly concerned that if the sealant wasn't circulating on a regular basis that the system would "give up the ghost" easily. Sounds like your setup did not - good for me. Thanks.

I have heard stories where people have to pry the tube off the tire cause the Stan's practivally bonds the two together.

I am about to remove a tire off of a ghetto setup rim. it will be interesting to see how tough it will be to get them apart.

j

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

Oh yeah, spend the $15 and buy Stans. I have friends jacking around with home brew latex with limited success - all in the name of " stan's cost too much"

please, give me a break. Stan's freekin works.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Oh yeah, spend the $15 and buy Stans. I have friends jacking around with home brew latex with limited success - all in the name of " stan's cost too much"

please, give me a break. Stan's freekin works.

Maybe he just needed an excuse to go buy the 5 gallon thing of liquid latex?

 

[Echo]

After a long period of time the latex tends to dry up.

Yup. And it dries up whether the rim is spinning or not

 

[SuperSlow]

liquid latex works just as good as stans. Save the money and use liquid latex

 

[zedro]

I have heard stories where people have to pry the tube off the tire cause the Stan's practivally bonds the two together.

I am about to remove a tire off of a ghetto setup rim. it will be interesting to see how tough it will be to get them apart.

j

yeah, my ghetto setup had the strip weld itself to the rim, which is nice since i could of changed the tire without re-seating a new strip.

 

[joelsman]

my tubeless setup (maxxis rim strips, stan's) needs air about once a month

 

[Bulldog]

Well my first attempt has failed semi-miserably.

Arrow FRX
ghetto strips (20" tube covered by Velox tape)
Stan's sealant
Kenda Nevegal 2.35 kevlar*

At first I couldn't get it to air up at all (with constant compressor pressure), it just spit white foam at me from all around the bead. Kept rotating the wheel and tipping it side to side to slosh around the sealant. Finally got it to air up some, but it leaked around pretty much the entire bead. It had foamed out so much sealant that I put another cups (now 4 total) of Stan's in there. Took awhile to hold some air, leaked a bit less, but finally would hold for more than a few seconds. After more rotating and tipping still a 5-6" section of the bead that kept foaming. Will be flat within an hour. Finally had to go and gave up. So about an hour of work, a half bottle of Stan's, and one big mess later I'm frustrated but not giving up. I'll try again after it sits, maybe it will seal better after the latex sets up some.

*the Nev was used this summer, been removed/installed several times and was a looser fit. My bets are a new tire would have worked better. But it seems the Kenda's have almost a ribbing around the bead that allows them to leak rather easily, this may be the problem. Like I said I haven't given up yet, but I'm not getting my hopes up. And honesltly, with the weight of the sealant and 1/2 a tube I'm not saving much, if any, weight. I just wanted to experience this better "feel" of a tubeless setup. Will try again.

 

[Mike B.]

liquid latex works just as good as stans. Save the money and use liquid latex

With all due respect, the two aren't even close.

Bulldog - you'll be fine. Two of my bikes will sit all winter as they did last winter in my chilly (NY gets cold) shed or garage. If you are using Stan's sealant freezing will not be an issue and because it isn't warm enough to evaporate the water that is in there, you're sealant won't dry out. If you are keeping it in a heated area, then you may find the sealant drying inside the tire. Buy some Stan's strips with the removeable valve core and you can add sealant through the valve stem without having to unseat the bead.

 

[DßR]

I use about 2 cups of latex to 3.5 cups of water with a big squirt of tubeless Slime thrown in. I've been doing it for over 2 years now and it works like a frickin' champ. It has even sealed 1/4" long rips in my Mich. 2.8.

Never tried the Stans' stuff, but I'm not about to pay $15 if something I can make myself for less than half that works perfectly.

BD-- my experience has been that used tires are much more hit-or-miss, and ditto with thinner sidewalls. A nice new DH tire is usually a pleasure to set up. Also, don't give up too easily. If you can get the beads to seat and there are no large holes in the casing, the tire will hold air 90% of the time. You just have to give it some time, for the sealant to plug up whatever holes you've got, kinda like platelets clotting up in a wound. For my tires, often they go flat in an hour for the first day or so, then after that, they'll hold air. They tend to get better with age.

 

[Mike B.]

Finally got it to air up some, but it leaked around pretty much the entire bead. It had foamed out so much sealant that I put another cups (now 4 total) of Stan's in there. After more rotating and tipping still a 5-6" section of the bead that kept foaming. Will be flat within an hour. Finally had to go and gave up. 'll try again after it sits, maybe it will seal better after the latex sets up some.

*the Nev was used this summer, been removed/installed several times and was a looser fit. My bets are a new tire would have worked better. But it seems the Kenda's have almost a ribbing around the bead that allows them to leak rather easily, this may be the problem. I just wanted to experience this better "feel" of a tubeless setup.

Should've bought the real deal with the installation instructions. Ok I'm done being an @ss.

The first time someone installs a tire, we recommend using no sealant at all for the reason you have now discovered. It can be a little tricky if you've never done it before. If you can mount the tire without sealant, just lots of soapy water on the sidewalls, you shouldn't have a problem once you add sealant.

Something you said jumped out at me and that was velox over you slit tube. You need to tape you spoke holes first, velox or other rim tape, and install your strip over that. With the FRX, you will probably noticed that the rim cavity does not have any flat benches near the sidewalls, making the tires harder to inflate. What you may want to try is a layer of velox rim tape in the cavity with a 1/8" thick piece of foam weatherstripping on top of that. That will give you some shape that seperates the beads making the tire easier to inflate.

I see you did notice the grooves in the sidewalls, just above the bead, that leak like a sieve. Kenda has it on all of their tires now and it is a royal pain. We are working with them to have those die marks removed to help inflation and sealing. Check the website (link in my sig) and look for the tech sheets for some inflation ideas. With the Kenda tires it may take a few times of sloshing the sidewalls, letting it sit, and doing it again before it's sealed. I'm got Karmas on my XC bike and Blue Grooves on my hardtail and with both sets, it took a couple hours of sloshing, sitting, and repeating before I got them sealed tight. Since that day I haven't had a single problem.

As far as weight savings goes, you won't see much difference between and lightweight XC tube and rimstrips + sealant but you will notice the better feel and traction. Our standard XC strip is ~56g and the sealant is 60g so you are back to a lightweight XC tube.

Any questions, just ask.

 

[DßR]

I've done my ghetto tubeless setup with Kenda Blue Grooves and Nevegals (on D321s) and the sidewall marks were never an issue for me, most of 'em inflated with no problems at all.

 

[Mike B.]

I use about 2 cups of latex to 3.5 cups of water with a big squirt of tubeless Slime thrown in. I've been doing it for over 2 years now and it works like a frickin' champ. It has even sealed 1/4" long rips in my Mich. 2.8.

Admittedly, the original sealant was just water and latex. In fact, we shipped latex in small bottles and had people dilute it themselves. Then we went to large jugs with latex in them so people didn't use too much water. Next was latex and water in a quart bottle so we knew they were getting the right mix.

From there on, I can't give any details but I can tell you there is now a carefully regulated mix of ingredients that is automated with conveyer system, etc that makes a great sealant that will not freeze, dry out very quickly, and works in any tubeless application. Freezing was a big issue for us as we ride all winter on packed snowmobile trails.

 

[Mike B.]

I've done my ghetto tubeless setup with Kenda Blue Grooves and Nevegals (on D321s) and the sidewall marks were never an issue for me, most of 'em inflated with no problems at all.

One of the lucky ones. We just got some prototype Kenda road tires that have the grooves and they are the hardest tires Stan or I has ever tried to seal.

 

[heikkihall]

Michelins with mavic rims and no sealant has worked well for me all season.

 

[Bulldog]

...lots of good stuff...

Yeah I know about the strips. But as I'm definately NOT sold on tubeless from my experiences with customer's bikes I wasn't going to order anything in. We had a bottle of your sealant on the shelf so that was easy enough. It this fails (unsure yet) or it works but gives me grief I will order stips. That is, if I can tell a difference.

As for inflating dry, no freaking way. Not a chance. I tried it, it was like only had 1 bead installed. That's when I put the sealant in and progress began.

I will put more sealant in tomorrow and try again. It should be setting up by then and hopefully help me out.

And yeah the bead is a problem on the Kenda's, but between going tubeless and giving up what's been the best tire I've found yet, well that's easy. Tubes work ok for me if that's the choice.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Bulldog]

Michelins with mavic rims and no sealant has worked well for me all season.

Are you rubbing it in Heikki? You're running the optimal tubeless setup, UST tire AND rim. Duh, no wonder it works. I'm way too picky (not changing tires or rims) and too ghetto for that!