[binary visions]

I just got done brewing an extract rye pale ale, clone of the Bear Republic Hop Rod Rye.

Recipe here and several other places:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/all-grain-kits-298/#post1769

All of the recipes I've read stick the OG at 1.070+ so that's what I was expecting.

Brewing went well, but when I took the OG reading, it was down at 1.054! Woah. Big difference - and this is supposed to be a high gravity beer. I was bummed but I started putting all of my ingredients into Beer Smith and the calculated OG was 1.044.

So, what the heck? I went back through and accounted for all of my ingredients and it all looks normal. I mulled over my brewing and it seemed to all be good. The only thing I wonder is my digital thermometer broke some time during the brewing process so the grains might have been steeped at less than 152 degrees... but that wouldn't explain why Beer Smith says 1.044 and the recipes say 1.070+.

edit: Maybe I should also add, I did a brief sanity check on my hydrometer to make sure it was roughly accurate, it's measuring at about 1.001 on my tap water at 70 degrees.

 

[Serial Midget]

Too much thought spoils the brew?

 

[TN]

Doesn't rye need to be mashed?

I bet even at 1.054 it will be a good beer.
What hops does a Hop Rod clone use?

 

[BikeGeek]

So, what the heck? I went back through and accounted for all of my ingredients and it all looks normal. I mulled over my brewing and it seemed to all be good. The only thing I wonder is my digital thermometer broke some time during the brewing process so the grains might have been steeped at less than 152 degrees... but that wouldn't explain why Beer Smith says 1.044 and the recipes say 1.070+.

Weird. Maybe your mash pH was out of range, how have gravities of previous brews been? Rye is a bitch to work with. It has a different gelatinization temperature than barley, so it's possible that you didn't get all you could have out of the rye malt. If mash temp was the culprit, you would have been much higher or much lower than 152 and I think you would have noticed that.

If you want to get the gravity up, you could feed it with boiled and cooled extract or sugar. Just be careful not to splash too much when you add it to the fermenter. Your bitterness is going to be higher than planned because of the lower gravity boil, but that's not always a bad thing.

For what it's worth, every recipe I've built with BeerSmith has had a higher gravity than the software suggested. I think it has a lot to do with variability between malt brands or same-brand malt lots.

 

[binary visions]

I'm noticed BeerSmith is a bit under. I wouldn't even be thinking about it if BeerSmith had predicted 1.044 and I hit 1.054.

It's just odd that the clone recipes are predicting 30 points higher than BeerSmith's estimate - and 20 points higher than what I ended up at. That's a whole big whack of gravity. TastyBrew's calculator estimates 1.088 OG. I'm very confused.

Thanks for the advice on correcting it, BG. I'm going to let it ryde (hah! Get it?) for now. I'm less worried about the way this beer will turn out (because it smelled good, had the right color, and the brewing went smoothly), and more curious as to what happened here.

Last two beers have been right on for OG. Well, my last beer was high but it was because I used a 6-gal recipe without realizing it, for 5 gallons - and it was high by an expected amount.

TN, the hops are in the linked recipe. I did read that rye ales tended to be difficult to do with extract brewing but I read numerous success stories of using the recipe linked and it's published on a whole lot of websites.

 

[binary visions]

BTW, I may try this recipe again and do a proper mini-mash rather than just steeping a sack full of grains. Also, I will do it with a better thermometer for better temperature control.

 

[BadDNA]

Just for grins, if you want to send me the recipe, I'll plug it into Promash and see what comes up.

I almost never pay attention to the recipe for gravity though. I usually come close, sometimes nail it but I don't base a success on hitting the numbers. In the end, you're still making beer, it's almost always drinkable and when someone else enjoys it you get to tell them you made it. Isn't that really what it's all about?

 

[binary visions]

Just for grins, if you want to send me the recipe, I'll plug it into Promash and see what comes up.

I almost never pay attention to the recipe for gravity though. I usually come close, sometimes nail it but I don't base a success on hitting the numbers. In the end, you're still making beer, it's almost always drinkable and when someone else enjoys it you get to tell them you made it. Isn't that really what it's all about?

Recipe is at the original link - copied:

1 lbs. 2-row pale malt
2.5 lbs. rye malt
1.25 lbs. flaked rye
1.15 lbs. Munich malt
0.625 lbs. wheat malt
0.625 lbs. CaraPils malt
1.75 oz. black malt
4.25 lbs. DME

I agree that it's really about making good beer, which is partly why I'm not touching this to try and do any corrections. If it's good, it's still good, even if it's not a huge alcohol content.

That said, when learning any trade/skill, an unexpected end result might be great but it's still good to know why the end result got that way. I'm not really worried, just interested in why.

Also, Hop Rod Rye is probably my all-time favorite beer so a great accident is well and good, but I'd still like to see if I can make one as similar as possible.

 

[BadDNA]

Recipe is at the original link - copied:

D'oh, guess I missed that part.

Anyway, throwing that malt list into Promash gets me a SG of 1.078. I suppose it could vary based on the specific ingredients but I still wouldn't expect it to be that far off.

I'd brew a second batch to make sure you got it right.

 

[TN]

TN, the hops are in the linked recipe. I did read that rye ales tended to be difficult to do with extract brewing but I read numerous success stories of using the recipe linked and it's published on a whole lot of websites.

this recipe is now on my list...it looks good. never used tomahawk.

His extract option looks more like a partial mash (just more grains & stricter temps.)...it might be a good candidate for the brew in a bag partial mash technique....here.

 

[BikeGeek]

I didn't really notice that you did extract with a grain steep. I think almost every recipe I did that way ended up low. The base grains you steeped should be enough to provide enzymes for its own conversion and that of the rye and wheat. How long was your steep? How was your water:grist ratio? 1-1.5 quarts/lb is pretty standard for AG mashes with thinner mashes typically providing better extraction. Have you successfully brewed this way with dark malts before? I'm curious if the black malt acidified the mash enough that your conversion slowed down.

 

[binary visions]

2.5 gallons, steeped (dunking and stirring it) for 50 minutes. I tried to keep it at 151-153 degrees but as I said, my thermometer was on the fritz after the steeping when I started the boil, and I don't know where along the way it died so it's possible my temps were lower. Probably unlikely that they were higher.

The last batch I did (brown ale) had a lot of dark grain in it, including half a pound of chocolate malt. It was high on the gravity side because it was 6 gallons of ingredients in a 5 gallon batch - but I just cracked one and it was delicious. The gravity was about what I expected.

Definitely going to try doing a mini mash next time. It really doesn't look much messier than steeping the grains, just dirties one more pot. Also, if I swap my "brewing type" from extract to partial mash in Beer Smith, my gravity jumps to where I expected it - 1.070+.

 

[TN]

If you want to get the gravity up, you could feed it with boiled and cooled extract or sugar. Just be careful not to splash too much when you add it to the fermenter. Your bitterness is going to be higher than planned because of the lower gravity boil, but that's not always a bad thing.

My Kolsch I brewed this weekend came up shy on its OG (1.034), do you think it would be a good idea to boil some DME up & add it to my carboy? If so, do you know how much I should use to get my gravity up to 1.044?

 

[dante]

When in doubt, more = better.

 

[BikeGeek]

My Kolsch I brewed this weekend came up shy on its OG (1.034), do you think it would be a good idea to boil some DME up & add it to my carboy? If so, do you know how much I should use to get my gravity up to 1.044?

Whether or not to add it is up to you. Worse case, you end up with a bit less alcohol and a bit more bitterness. I never messed much with my homebrews. I just kept notes and made adjustments for the next time around.

If you decide to do it, DME typically contributes about 1.040 (aka 40 points) per pound in one gallon of water. If you boil a pound of DME in half a gallon of water and add it to 5 gallons of wort, you're giving the beer roughly 7 additional points.

(points per pound * DME weight) / new beer volume = (40*1)/5.5 = 7.3 points
1.034 OG + 1.007 = 1.041

 

[TN]

Whether or not to add it is up to you. Worse case, you end up with a bit less alcohol and a bit more bitterness. I never messed much with my homebrews. I just kept notes and made adjustments for the next time around.

If you decide to do it, DME typically contributes about 1.040 (aka 40 points) per pound in one gallon of water. If you boil a pound of DME in half a gallon of water and add it to 5 gallons of wort, you're giving the beer roughly 7 additional points.

(points per pound * DME weight) / new beer volume = (40*1)/5.5 = 7.3 points
1.034 OG + 1.007 = 1.041

Thanks!

I think the consensus is, that my gravity reading was off. My mash gravity was 1.044 (3 gals) & I boiled with 3# of DME added & topped off to 5 gal. So it doesnt make sense to me that my OG was so low.

sorry to derail your thread BV.

 

[binary visions]

No problem about the derail, my original subject was pretty much done.

BTW, when reading gravity for wort topped off with water, it was pointed out to me that it's pretty difficult to get a properly mixed sample. It's not really a problem for me because I top off, then pick up my carboy and shake it hard for 90+ seconds to aerate, so it's as mixed it ever will be - but if you're just stirring, it's pretty common to get a sample that's either over or under diluted.

 

[boostindoubles]

this recipe is now on my list...it looks good. never used tomahawk.

TN, fyi Tomahawk = Zeus = Columbus = CTZ. Depends on who you talk to, but for all intensive purposes they're all the same variety bred by one entity and sold to three different firms who each gave it their own name.

 

[Pesqueeb]

TN, fyi Tomahawk = Zeus = Columbus = CTZ. Depends on who you talk to, but for all intensive purposes they're all the same variety bred by one entity and sold to three different firms who each gave it their own name.

This man knows his hops. Trust him.

 

[boostindoubles]

This man knows his hops. Trust him.

I know a guy who knows a guy you could say

 

[TN]

TN, fyi Tomahawk = Zeus = Columbus = CTZ. Depends on who you talk to, but for all intensive purposes they're all the same variety bred by one entity and sold to three different firms who each gave it their own name.

this hops biz reminds me of another biz I am a consumer of.