[dan-o]

We should just accept the mass murder of children I guess.

The flu killed 22 kids between Feb 10-17. Why aren't you demanding mandatory vaccinations?
Alcohol kills 88k per year. Why aren't you proposing banning booze?

There are between 5-10 million ARs in US, a dozen are used in crimes and they become public enemy #1 while all gun owners are now child killers.
Makes perfect sense.

 

[Westy]

The flu killed 22 kids between Feb 10-17. Why aren't you demanding mandatory vaccinations?
Alcohol kills 88k per year. Why aren't you proposing banning booze?

There are between 5-10 million ARs in US, a dozen are used in crimes and they become public enemy #1 while all gun owners are now child killers.
Makes perfect sense.

Your logic is illogical. 10.4 billion dollars are spent each year to treat and prevent the flu. So we should just give up on that?

Are 30,000 gun related deaths per year perfectly acceptable? Are 66% of murders not worth preventing?


Terrorists kill a miniscule number of people a year in comparison, yet we are willing to spend trillions, dispose of young soldiers lives and surrender freedoms to prevent it from happening. You cool with that?

 

[mykel]

@dan-o

When you descend to using false equivalencies you have already lost.

 

[jonKranked]

Why aren't you demanding mandatory vaccinations?

Because not everyone is physically able to receive an influenza vaccine without having an adverse reaction? Ie people with compromised immune systems.

Not to mention republicans are adamantly opposed to mandating health care on people.

 

[jonKranked]

Alcohol kills 88k per year. Why aren't you proposing banning booze?

Call us when someone goes into a school and makes students funnel everclear until they get alcohol poisoning and die.

 

[Jm_]

So how many school-shootings do we need to have to prove that saturating our population with military-grade weapons is a bad idea?

 

[Jm_]

I mean, either increasing the barriers to obtaining and using these weapons works, or the countries like Australia and the UK have fucking miraculously solved mental health.

I think part of the reason this is so "hard" for the right is that it calls into question their entire belief system and perception of the world. If we have to reduce the occurrence of bad things by restricting people's access to bad things, it means that people sometimes "snap", that given the right circumstances a person that is "normal" can lose control and take irrational action, that we aren't always in control of our actions and lives. This means that not all poor people choose to be poor, not all helpless people choose to be helpless, not all homeless people choose to be homeless, and so on. It means that we can't just blame people 100% for their misfortunes and have to consider the influences of the environment and that people are a spectrum and fit within the shades of grey with at least somewhat general dispersion across that spectrum.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Is dan-o Ted Nugent ?

 

[dan-o]

Call us when someone goes into a school and makes students funnel everclear until they get alcohol poisoning and die.

My bad, I thought we were trying to protect the children from evil corporate interests.

Total deaths in school related shootings between 1966-2018: 241

Annual deaths of underage kids due to alcohol: 4300

 

[jonKranked]

So how many school-shootings do we need to have to prove that saturating our population with military-grade weapons is a bad idea?

Idk how many but sadly it doesn't seem like we're there yet.

 

[Jm_]

My bad, I thought we were trying to protect the children from evil corporate interests.

Total deaths in school related shootings between 1966-2018: 241

Annual deaths of underage kids due to alcohol: 4300

Wow, you totally did not even come close to getting it...

Here, let me rephrase for you:

How many right-wing country music concert-goers do we need murdered before we do something about the accessibility of assault weapons?

 

[dan-o]

How many right-wing country music concert-goers do we need murdered before we do something about the accessibility of assault weapons?

All of them?

 

[stoney]

Total deaths in school related shootings between 1966-2018: 241

Annual deaths of underage kids due to alcohol: 4300

Things an individual has to CHOOSE TO DO:
- drink alcohol
- not get immunizations (guardians make that choice)
- drive drunk
- take a drug that can cause them to OF

Things an individial does NOT CHOOSE TO DO:
- go to school today and get shot
- have an immune deficiency that prevents them from taking vaccines

The arguments you are using are false equivalents. Mental health funding is a massive issue, but there is no exceptionally high rate of problems in the US. The big difference here is the easy access to weapons in general.

60% of suicides in the US are gun. 100% of school mass murders are guns. The vast majority of mass murder attempts in this country are gun based. You can't kill 50 people from a 33rd floor window with a fucking knife. If you walk into a school and start stabbing people, how long until you are hurried under chairs and desks? You are no danger to those more than 3ft away from you.

There are crazy people everywhere, but there aren't guns. We have guns and more people die here. Good guy with a gun has been amazingly disproven with Douglas High School. The entity that screams the loudest about gun rights is primarily funded by the gun manufacturers. It is using false equivalents to keep people fighting amongst themselves and not them, to keep those sales dollars rolling in. Every time an event like this happens, gun stocks go up in value. Why would they want to make that stop?

 

[Kevin]

The solution to mental illness is not to regulate the sane.
We don't have the stomach for the real solution, which is to restrict their access to society.

Dan- "Special kind of stupid." O

 

[pnj]

simple solution.

Somebody shoot dan-0 .

 

[DaveW]

View attachment 127988

And yet this award goes to.....
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/23/nra-ajit-pai-cpac-award-423414

 

[stoney]

simple solution.

Somebody shoot dan-0 .

I understand your point, outside of the suicides, most people shot with guns are waking up intending to be shot. But no personal attacks; that's not what we're doing here.

Dan- "Special kind of stupid." O

No personal attacks. We're debating guns. You've said some shit that made me question your intelligence, but I've never used that was part of an argument. You will never change a person's view by insulting them.
@dan-o is from the South. He grew up shooting,, has guns and still shoots when they go camping (mentioned it a while back). At a certain point, that has integrated into the society's culture. Taking that away can be seen as a direct attack on said culture. That is what we see differently.

You and I? We see kids dying huge numbers of unnecessary murders and suicides, as well as police shootings because of an excessive number of guns in this country. The solution? Reduce the number or make it harder to get them, and make sure that people who do get them are mentally capable to handle them.

Dan-o and a very large portion of this country see them as just a tool. The issue is with the person behind it.

Unfortunately, this population also refuses to allow for tighter regulations on making sure the people behind the guns should have them. Or as often they are overlapped with Conservatives, will not support them getting any kind of mental healthcare if they can't afford it on their own, which is a deadly combination.

Even a direct attack on that society (Las Vegas) did nothing to change this mentality. It does not matter until an individual is directly impacted that change is willing to be effected, because "it's something that happens in Northen schools" or "urban schools" or there will be a good guy with a gun because we carry down here. This was the first time it happened in the South (Pulse doesn't count, it was gay people), but to rich kids in a more liberal neighborhood. "They aren't like us, so they don't know what they are talking about taking my guns away."

Sound familiar? Attack the topic, not the person.

 

[Pesqueeb]

He grew up shooting,, has guns and still shoots when they go camping

So did I. I grew up like this, guns went camping, guns were in the house. Dinner table talk sometimes turned around whatever game was in season. Hell, riding the motorcycle and realizing just how many deer there are walking down my own damn street in the middle of suburbia made me want to take deer hunting back up, because the deer population is out of control and they are a pestilence.

But that's not the sort of "gun culture" we're talking about here. Hick-oid cow pasture plinking, duck or deer season, or the shotgun for keeping the fucking raccoons out of the hen house are not the issue. The problem is the sort of mentality that causes a guy to worship a mass murder tool over the lives of kids, people at a night club, or people at a concert. It doesn't matter to them.

You guys are wasting your time.

 

[Nick]

simple solution.

Somebody shoot dan-0 .

What the fuck is the mater with you?

 

[pnj]

What the fuck is the mater with you?

Here's my deal....

people are tired of loved ones getting shot. moms, sisters, dads, cousins, brothers, aunts, uncles, etc.

pro gun folks all seem to think that since they own and love guns, they are immune to being shot. I'm simply trying to illustrate that, just because you have and love guns, doesn't mean you are exempt from being shot.

Plus, I TRULY believe in 'fighting fire with fire".

 

[Kevin]

I understand your point, outside of the suicides, most people shot with guns are waking up intending to be shot. But no personal attacks; that's not what we're doing here.


No personal attacks. We're debating guns. You've said some shit that made me question your intelligence, but I've never used that was part of an argument. You will never change a person's view by insulting them.
@dan-o is from the South. He grew up shooting,, has guns and still shoots when they go camping (mentioned it a while back). At a certain point, that has integrated into the society's culture. Taking that away can be seen as a direct attack on said culture. That is what we see differently.

You and I? We see kids dying huge numbers of unnecessary murders and suicides, as well as police shootings because of an excessive number of guns in this country. The solution? Reduce the number or make it harder to get them, and make sure that people who do get them are mentally capable to handle them.

Dan-o and a very large portion of this country see them as just a tool. The issue is with the person behind it.

Unfortunately, this population also refuses to allow for tighter regulations on making sure the people behind the guns should have them. Or as often they are overlapped with Conservatives, will not support them getting any kind of mental healthcare if they can't afford it on their own, which is a deadly combination.

Even a direct attack on that society (Las Vegas) did nothing to change this mentality. It does not matter until an individual is directly impacted that change is willing to be effected, because "it's something that happens in Northen schools" or "urban schools" or there will be a good guy with a gun because we carry down here. This was the first time it happened in the South (Pulse doesn't count, it was gay people), but to rich kids in a more liberal neighborhood. "They aren't like us, so they don't know what they are talking about taking my guns away."

Sound familiar? Attack the topic, not the person.

No personal attacks yet you "question my intelligence" huh?
Ok then I hereby question Dans intelligence if that makes you feel better.

Sorry for calling anyone stupid...

 

[Pesqueeb]

pro gun folks all seem to think that since they own and love guns, they are immune to being shot. I'm simply trying to illustrate that, just because you have and love guns, doesn't mean you are exempt from being shot.

This kid literally had classmates get shot, could have been killed himself, and the first instinct is "protect teh gunz!"

That's a special kind of evil.

Especially when one resorts to flagrant dishonesty. If your point of view requires chicanery to sound sane, well, maybe your point of view is the problem?

 

[dan-o]

@dan-o is from the South. He grew up shooting,, has guns and still shoots when they go camping (mentioned it a while back). At a certain point, that has integrated into the society's culture. Taking that away can be seen as a direct attack on said culture. That is what we see differently.

You’re confusing me with Jeremy R, who was chased out of this discussion by personal attacks.

I’m from MI, lived in CO for a decade and now live in the northeast. The median house value in my super liberal coastal town is north of $850k. 18% of the town population has a CC/high capacity firearms license.

I shoot a fair amount, typically 1000 rounds a month between pistol and rifle. I trained at Sig sauer academy over 50hrs last year, with a similar schedule this year. With the exception of swat guys, most LEO don’t come close to this amount of training. I’m pretty proficient with a firearm.

I take gun ownership seriously knowing the inherent risks. They’re always in the safe, which only I know combo to, if not under my direct control. My boys have known how to safely clear a loaded gun since they were 8.

My business often takes me to crime and drug ridden shitholes, typically alone. Types of places I leave one GSD inside the truck and being the other with me while I walk the clients property. This is one reason the police chief in my town, who needed to personally rubber stamp my license, didn’t hesitate the other being him knowing my character.

Contrary to how ‘squeeb paints me, I don’t have a gun fetish or take selfies with them. Most of our friends, including my in laws, have no idea that I shoot.

I have two ARs: a 5.56 SHF/competition gun and another in .300BLK for hunting (5 round mag, peta people). They are infinitely reliable, accurate, lightweight, ergonomic, weatherproof and durable, which is why I prefer them over my wood guns. Plus 3 9mm handguns. Hardly an arsenal imo.

 

[dan-o]

Here's my deal....

Plus, I TRULY believe in 'fighting fire with fire".

I’m fairly confident you’d come to regret that course of action.

I’ve got no delusions of a force field having been shot at plenty of times. But I’m 100% certain you have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[mykel]

So much for that idea...

Good guys with a gun

 

[dan-o]

So much for that idea...

Good guys with a gun

Funny how that info came out the day after that douchebag sheriff was on the CNN town hall, calling for disarming citizens because the police exist to protect us. I’m sure they hadn’t had time to review the video or bebrief in the previous week.

He should be fired and those four deputies charged with a minimum of manslaughter.

 

[Westy]

You’re confusing me with Jeremy R, who was chased out of this discussion by personal attacks.

I’m from MI, lived in CO for a decade and now live in the northeast. The median house value in my super liberal coastal town is north of $850k. 18% of the town population has a CC/high capacity firearms license.

I shoot a fair amount, typically 1000 rounds a month between pistol and rifle. I trained at Sig sauer academy over 50hrs last year, with a similar schedule this year. With the exception of swat guys, most LEO don’t come close to this amount of training. I’m pretty proficient with a firearm.

I take gun ownership seriously knowing the inherent risks. They’re always in the safe, which only I know combo to, if not under my direct control. My boys have known how to safely clear a loaded gun since they were 8.

My business often takes me to crime and drug ridden shitholes, typically alone. Types of places I leave one GSD inside the truck and being the other with me while I walk the clients property. This is one reason the police chief in my town, who needed to personally rubber stamp my license, didn’t hesitate the other being him knowing my character.

Contrary to how ‘squeeb paints me, I don’t have a gun fetish or take selfies with them. Most of our friends, including my in laws, have no idea that I shoot.

I have two ARs: a 5.56 SHF/competition gun and another in .300BLK for hunting (5 round mag, peta people). They are infinitely reliable, accurate, lightweight, ergonomic, weatherproof and durable, which is why I prefer them over my wood guns. Plus 3 9mm handguns. Hardly an arsenal imo.

I've never met a gun owner who didn't think that they were not responsible and safe. However I know many who are wildly irresponsible. I have witnessed a former cop come within a fraction of an inch from shooting his son in the head while removing his gun from his holster. I had an upstairs neighbor accidentally shoot his couch with a .38. He was a well educated wealthy business owner vetted by the state of NY to carry a concealed weapon.

I live a pretty unremarkable and low risk life. I don't go to dangerous neighborhoods, I don't partake in illegal activity yet I have been shot at twice and had a gun brandished in a threatening manner on two other occasions.

I have never had anything of consequence stolen, never had my house broken in to, never been the victim of violent crime. The only dangerous and illegal activity I have ever been experienced came at the hand of fucking dumb cunts with guns. I don't question that you are a safe and responsible person, but there are a ton of people out there who are not and have easy access to weapons. History has shown me that the biggest threat to my life liberty and pursuit of happiness is people with guns. Current trends make me believe that threat is getting worse.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

The problem is the sort of mentality that causes a guy to worship a mass murder tool over the lives of kids, people at a night club, or people at a concert.

Every time there is a mass shooting, sales of the brand and model of weapon used skyrocket in the following days.

This country has an absolutely, and globally unique, sick obsession with guns.

 

[dan-o]

History has shown me that the biggest threat to my life liberty and pursuit of happiness is people with guns. Current trends make me believe that threat is getting worse.

I agree with you on all counts, especially irresponsible/unsuitable owners.
I see them all the time and they're why you'll never find me at a public range.

The current trajectory of our society and administration aren't leading me to reconsider my stance on owning guns, however. If anything, it's reinforcing it.

This video pretty much sums up my current views and mirrors my experience growing up (rifle in trunk at school etc).
So when George Clooney spends some of his money earned in movies featuring weapons, I have to laugh.
Same goes for guys like Kevin who sit around and play CoD
Get off my lawn.

 

[Kevin]

I agree with you on all counts, especially irresponsible/unsuitable owners.
I see them all the time and they're why you'll never find me at a public range.

The current trajectory of our society and administration aren't leading me to reconsider my stance on owning guns, however. If anything, it's reinforcing it.

This video pretty much sums up my current views and mirrors my experience growing up (rifle in trunk at school etc).
So when George Clooney spends some of his money earned in movies featuring weapons, I have to laugh.
Same goes for guys like Kevin who sit around and play CoD
Get off my lawn.

I have no desire to be on your trailer park lawn, mr “im so scared of everything I need an ar15 to defend myself” tough guy.

Grow a pair.

 

[stoney]

No personal attacks yet you "question my intelligence" huh?
Ok then I hereby question Dans intelligence if that makes you feel better.

Sorry for calling anyone stupid...

Sucks, right? Kind of what I was getting at.

You’re confusing me with...

Sorry. Kind of right, kind of wrong. I know that you know your shit and do it right, I got the base context wrong.

 

[Westy]

 

[Jm_]

Do you want to know more?

 

[Westy]

 

[JohnE]

Didnt know whether to put this here or in the religious psychosis thread...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pa-church-tells-couples-bring-ar-15s-blessing-ceremony-article-1.3834420

 

[Pesqueeb]

Didnt know whether to put this here or in the religious psychosis thread...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pa-church-tells-couples-bring-ar-15s-blessing-ceremony-article-1.3834420

Wait, Moonies are still a thing?

 

[Nick]

Man ... the more this sheriff from Broward Co. talks the more irresponsible and inept he sounds.

 

[dan-o]

Man ... the more this sheriff from Broward Co. talks the more irresponsible and inept he sounds.

How's that old saying go? You're the sum of the company you keep........or something to that effect.

 

[Pesqueeb]

How's that old saying go? You're the sum of the company you keep........or something to that effect.

Cute. It's almost as if an elected official might do pressers with other elected (or wanna be elected) officials. What bullshit gun nut site did you pull that from? Google image search reveals an interesting pattern. The first two of which are Reddits: r/The_donald and "uncle sams misguided children" or pages of right wing hackery Twitter accounts.. I wonder how long I'd have to dig around to find picture of Isreal smiling in front of the camera with Trump, Or Rick Scott, Jeb Bush, Or Lil' Marco?

Where as, if you actually dig in a little about sheriff Isreal, a duly elected official, you find gems like this:

Israel has also been scrutinized for his relationship with political operative Roger Stone. A Fort Lauderdale resident who built his career on smearing political enemies, Stone had a hand in the political campaigns of Richard Nixon, John McCain and Donald Trump. While backing then sheriff Al Lamberti in 2011, Stone told the Sun-Sentinel that "Scott Israel is an unqualified punk, a racist and a thief."

One year later, Stone switched sides, helping Israel defeat Lamberti in the 2012 sheriff’s race. Since then, Israel “added to BSO’s payroll Stone's book-writing partner, Stone's book publicist and Stone's long-time executive assistant,” and even had “Stone's stepson transferred to detective.”

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-who-is-broward-sheriff-scott-israel-20180223-story.html

or

Two years ago, the Sun Sentinel reportedthat Israel was rewarding top political supporters by giving them and their family members cushy jobs doing public relations and community outreach for the Broward County Sheriff's Office. One such position, outreach manager, paid out a salary of $78,489. The person who got that job was the husband of Israel's campaign manager.

Israel had been a Republican but ran for office as a Democrat. He was first elected sheriff in 2012, then re-elected in 2016. According to the Sun Sentinel:

The outreach workers, who mainly attend community events, are in addition to political activists and others Israel hired into community affairs roles, writing and designing printed pieces about the agency, and sharing it on social media. The employee log shows six hired into community affairs roles, their salaries totaling $388,729.

Israel's opponents say he's built a publicly funded political machine, paying back supporters with jobs and using them to keep him in office. They say the money could be better spent, particularly after the sheriff complained about not having enough funding to secure the county courthouse, where a murder suspect recently escaped.


Asked about the allegations, Israel responded, "What have I done differently than Don Shula or Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King, Gandhi?"

He also said, "Lions don't care about the opinions of sheep." That's a paraphrase of a quote from the Game of Thronescharacter Tywin Lannister, a villainous public administrator known for promoting his family's interests ahead of the government's or the people's.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriff-scott-israel-accu

 

[dan-o]

Cute. It's almost as if an elected official might do pressers with other elected (or wanna be elected) officials. What bullshit gun nut site did you pull that from? Google image search reveals an interesting pattern. The first two of which are Reddits: r/The_donald and "uncle sams misguided children" or pages of right wing hackery Twitter accounts.. I wonder how long I'd have to dig around to find picture of Isreal smiling in front of the camera with Trump, Or Rick Scott, Jeb Bush, Or Lil' Marco?

Where as, if you actually dig in a little about sheriff Isreal, a duly elected official, you find gems like this:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-who-is-broward-sheriff-scott-israel-20180223-story.html

or


https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriff-scott-israel-accu

I found it on letsstackkidslikecordwood.com
Or Google image search of his name, I don’t recall.

I’m aware of what those links disclose about him. As I’m sure the people in the photos did too, but still wanted to associate with him.