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Headlocks - good or not so good ?

jungle

Monkey
Jan 11, 2006
357
0

Spunger

Git yer dumb questions here
Feb 19, 2003
2,257
0
805
I have headlocks on 3 bikes. I just trust that connection more than a star nut. It's almost mandatory on a DH bike or something that takes lots of abuse. Get a good headset and a headlock and be done with it.

I have a king/headlock combo and 2 FSA pig DH pro's with headlocks as well. All work fine and setup correctly.
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
I know people that use the Azonic ones and love them, but personally I just stick to the tried-and-true star nut. If I were to use one Azonic would be my first and last choice.
 

in the trees

Turbo Monkey
May 19, 2003
1,210
1
NH
I've always used an Azonic Headlock. I tried once (and only once) to run an integrated stem/top crown without one and I couldn't keep the str nut tight enough to keep the crown from creeping up the steerer. I think they are a good idea esp. with integrated stems. And I never had a problem with the Azonic one, but have had 2 Woodmans break. I'll take the weight penalty of the Azonic, thank you.

toby
 

Tootrikky

Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
772
0
Mount Vernon
What's the point of a Headlock? Thought the stem and top crown (on dual crown forks) held everything in place, and the star/top cap is there to allow for bearing tension adjustment. Am I missing something?
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,140
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
The crowns and stem can wiggle there way loose after a while, and with all that extra friction the fangled nut can slip just trying to get everything tightened together.
I run the Woodman ulta light one. The Azonic is stronger for sure, but heavier.
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
Yeah, that's a good point. A good headset helps with keeping everything in adjustment, too.
 

Edgy

Monkey
May 1, 2003
410
0
O.C
I screwed up that star thing so many times...I dig the Headlock...nice and tight with no probs so far.
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
maxyedor said:
Theoreticaly yes, but I've never run into an issue. I think it is because they thread together on a completly different axis.
like star fangled nuts....

threads generally run in the same axis they get loose. But I've never had an issue with the star nuts so...
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
I have never had an issue with a star nut. I also see no point in the head lock setup when it's my stem and top crown that hold everything together. The star nut just holds it in place until I've torqued down the stem.

But I guess if it works better for some people.
 

Mtnrider

Monkey
Jul 1, 2001
247
0
Littleton, CO
DRB said:
They are good in the right applications. Rik Flair always employed the head lock in an excellent manner. He could slip in the hair pull to the mat and the ref never caught him.
Dude that was some funny **** right there!:)
 

Mtnrider

Monkey
Jul 1, 2001
247
0
Littleton, CO
Hope makes a cool star nut replacement, i have them on all three of my mountian bikes, I think it's a lot better setup than a star nut. And not nearly as heavy as the head lock.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
Head locks originated with Bmx racing. As far as use with DH, If your checking your rig on a regular Basis you will probably never need a headlock. As many have said, its not the start which holds everything together, its the Stem, the star nut is just so you can put some preload on teh bearings is all. If your having problems with your crowns coming loose i would suggest looking further into why they keep coming loose, wether it be a problem with the crowns, stanchions, or stem, Or possibly lack of checking between rides. If theory you can preload your headset tighten your stem and take the top cap off and not worry about it. Not suggesting that but shouldnt see anything move after that. Also if your worried about over tightening your stem and crowns, just go buy an Inch lb tourque wrench and Set it all to spec. Then you know for sure.

As far as everyones star nuts slipping in the steer tube's, Your Probably over tightening them. Not meaning to Slam anyone, but check your fork's or your headsets spec on what the torque is supposed to be, check it with a In lb wrench and be suprised how little force is needed for those
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
Mtnrider said:
I agree star nuts are fine and good if installed properly but this is better! Easier to install, remove, reinstall, etc.
yeah, lots nicer than those gougy things.

gotta agree with DirtyMike, if loosening is a problem, it's not your star-nut, something is probably wrong.
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
maxyedor said:
The crowns and stem can wiggle there way loose after a while,
I am running my BMX with out a starnut or headlock. Just the stem clamped tightly to the steerer and it has been fine for over 8 months.
 

dexter

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
3,053
99
Boise, Idaho
never used one untill i got my dorado in 02 or 03 whatever the first year was they made them. anyways i run them on every bike and always will. makes sure everything is snug. only time i have ever had one fail was when i came in nose heavy over rotated on a 360 to flat and it popped a few threads off it. if it was a star nut it would have imploded. they also make switching forks from bike to bike and vice versa much easier. i always pull the starnut out
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
bballe336 said:
I am running my BMX with out a starnut or headlock. Just the stem clamped tightly to the steerer and it has been fine for over 8 months.

Seeing that after eight months your not having troubles, sounds like you check it regulary. Key move to the issue here. I have noticed lately alot of Bmx forks going away from the star nut and literally welding a Plat inside the steerer and tapping a hole in it.

On top of all this debate on which is better, weather or not your using a headlok, or a star nut, or teh Expander style, Do yourself a Favor. Buy yourselves an Inch lb torque wrench, Check your specs and set them up properly. I am willing to bet mos twill Be suprised in how many times they have Overtightened stuff on there bikes.
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
DirtyMike said:
Seeing that after eight months your not having troubles, sounds like you check it regulary. Key move to the issue here. I have noticed lately alot of Bmx forks going away from the star nut and literally welding a Plat inside the steerer and tapping a hole in it.

On top of all this debate on which is better, weather or not your using a headlok, or a star nut, or teh Expander style, Do yourself a Favor. Buy yourselves an Inch lb torque wrench, Check your specs and set them up properly. I am willing to bet mos twill Be suprised in how many times they have Overtightened stuff on there bikes.
My fork was welded like that stock. I broke the bolt and was to lazy to order a new one. I haven't tightened the bolts at all. Just threw on some grease and torqued them down and it has been fine.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Tootrikky said:
Thought the stem and top crown (on dual crown forks) held everything in place, and the star/top cap is there to allow for bearing tension adjustment. Am I missing something?

In theory? Yes. Have you ever gone without a topcap/starnut? Even on an XC bike the stem comes loose in less than 2 rides.
I didn't have a starnut for my new bike so I used my headset press to preload the bearings. It only worked for a bit.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
If your setups are coming loose, find out why. The top cap is NOT, repeat NOT what keeps things tight. Are you Putting grease on your steer tube before putting your stems on??? Is your headset not seated all the way??? Are you Under torqueing your Stems??? If your STem is soooo cheap it wont hold torque, GET A BETTER ONE!!! If it wont hold torque, it isnt safe for what your doing. If your using your headlock to Hold it all together your Overloading your headset. Before You answer about wether or not your torqueing Properly, check it with a Torquw wrench

Here are some links

http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=13&item=TW-1

http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=13&item=TW-2


Notice i listed two different Wrenches, If your working on your own bike these should be teh first tools you buy

And yes i have ridden without the top cap installed, And no My headset did NOT come loose, after about four fifteen mile plus rides it still wasnt loose!!! And thats with a CHeap Powertools stem
 

fiddy_ryder

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,653
0
Hollywood
buildyourown said:
In theory? Yes. Have you ever gone without a topcap/starnut? Even on an XC bike the stem comes loose in less than 2 rides.
I didn't have a starnut for my new bike so I used my headset press to preload the bearings. It only worked for a bit.
you have other issues then,, i jump every weekend and im a hack, hittin flat all th time goin otb and all. my stem has NEVER come loose on me. I did a 13 mile downhill trail ride with some seriously lock rocky sections and it did not budge once. I run a dual crown fork and niether of the crowns have come loose either.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
fiddy_ryder said:
you have other issues then,, i jump every weekend and im a hack, hittin flat all th time goin otb and all. my stem has NEVER come loose on me. I did a 13 mile downhill trail ride with some seriously lock rocky sections and it did not budge once. I run a dual crown fork and niether of the crowns have come loose either.
Yes, but you have a top cap right?
Trust me. I understand how a threadless headset works in theory. I'm just saying that in the real world, the topcap helps keep things tight.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
buildyourown said:
Yes, but you have a top cap right?
Trust me. I understand how a threadless headset works in theory. I'm just saying that in the real world, the topcap helps keep things tight.

To show the top capp doesnt matter once your stem is properly tigtened, Sunday when i ride mine will be sitting in the garage at home. Ill update later how it does, were planning on being out most of the day so should be quite the day
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
Ok Update for ya, ran all morning down at Southridge, played on the 4cross track for a while and did 3 or four runs up top. All with the top cap in my bag, Only trouble i had was after a crash when the bars spun a bit on the steerer. Even after that, headset was still tight.
Its all about your initial setup and doing it right to begin with
 

Tame Ape

BUY HOPE!!!!!!!
Mar 4, 2003
2,284
1
NYC
santacruzer87 said:
I prefer headlock, so hard to ovalize the headtube
That makes less sense then anything else posted in this thread. How does the headlock make it harder to ovalize the headtube?
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
Agreed, if anything a Headlock installed wrong, or Over tight would do just that. Going back to the star nutt, if your tightening them up so far they are Pulling out, STOP thats too tight, they only go to about 5 inch lbs of torque
 

J

Monkey
Dec 7, 2003
437
0
San Luis Obispo, CA
Tame Ape said:
That makes less sense then anything else posted in this thread. How does the headlock make it harder to ovalize the headtube?
If you ride with a loose headset your headtube is more prone to ovalizing. Think of if you were to ride without a headset, the steerer tube would bang against the head tube and ovalize it. Same idea as a loose headset since everything isnt held tight.

If anyone wants a headlock PM me! I have a brand new one for sale!