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Health Care Reform is Dead

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,225
20,003
Sleazattle
Makes you wonder how many jobs are actually parasitic and contribute nothing of value to society.
Isn't the bulk of the finance industry? Not the means of actually loaning money to industry, but the part that just makes stupid bets on financial things.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,260
8,765
Crawlorado
Isn't the bulk of the finance industry? Not the means of actually loaning money to industry, but the part that just makes stupid bets on financial things.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/opinion/how-big-banks-became-our-masters.html

Community banks have 13% of the capital in this country yet provide nearly 50% of the small business ("backbone of society!" if you listen to our politicians) lending. Only 15% of the assets held by large financial institutions go towards that same purpose. The remainder is used for investment purposes benefitting nobody except high level executives and large shareholders.

So yes, the majority of the financial sector as it is today does not contribute anything of value to society and serves the interests of few at the expense of most.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,260
8,765
Crawlorado
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6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,827
13,060
I think this just cluster-effs everyone apart from federally insured jobs...
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,029
7,549
I think this just cluster-effs everyone apart from federally insured jobs...
It shouldn't for those of us on employer plans, at least those with non-shitty employers. Individual plan marketplaces will be wrecked, though, at least until some lawsuit can force a judge to put an injunction on this rule's implementation.
 
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SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,375
12,529
In a van.... down by the river
It shouldn't those of us on employer plans, at least those with non-shitty employers. Individual plan marketplaces will be wrecked, though, at least until some lawsuit can force a judge to put an injunction on this rule's implementation.
At what point, though, will insurers start to *really* stick it to the corporations which provide health insurance for their employees? And at what point will the corporations tell the insurers to fuck off and demand that something rational be done with national healthcare?
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,185
13,441
directly above the center of the earth
Maine Votes to Expand Medicaid, Flouting GOP


Mainers voted to expand access to Medicaid through the Affordable Care Act on Tuesday, the Associated Press reported, overruling Republican Gov. Paul LePage.

The ballot measure will give an estimated80,000 low-income Mainers access to health care. It also offers an important test of the health care law's popularity amid efforts of President Donald Trump and other GOP leaders to dismantle it.

Maine is one of 19 states whose Republican leadership declined to expand access to Medicaid under Obamacare. Maine is the first to use a ballot initiative to expand it anyway, after LePage vetoed five attempts by the state's legislature to expand the program.

Maine's ballot initiative could be the first of many: Advocates have filed paperwork to try and get initiatives on the ballot in Idaho and Utah in 2018.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,260
8,765
Crawlorado
i saw another article where someone from the legislature basically said at this point if he tries to block it he's breaking the law and they'll let the judiciary handle it
Sounds right. He's elected to enact the will of the people. The people have spoken pretty clearly on this one. If he cannot perform his duties, he should polish up the old resume and find another career.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,138
16,533
Riding the baggage carousel.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/my-army-service-made-me-believe-in-universal-health-care/546974/

Hard to argue with that logic. But I guess this isn't a logical discussion in the first place, bring on the emotionally irrational!
I've been saying this almost since this debate started, and this gets way into the weeds on the Democrats total inability to sell any idea, no matter how good it is. "Healthcare Reform" from day one should have been trotted out by the Dems as "Tri-care for all". We all love and support the troops, right?* Give them the best of everything, right? I'm convinced, tell the average, redstate, 'Murican voter they get the same healthcare as the troops they have such rock hard Freedom Boners® for, and it would have been a much easier sell.

*sarcasm heavily implied.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,260
8,765
Crawlorado
I've been saying this almost since this debate started, and this gets way into the weeds on the Democrats total inability to sell any idea, no matter how good it is. "Healthcare Reform" from day one should have been trotted out by the Dems as "Tri-care for all". We all love and support the troops, right?* Give them the best of everything, right? I'm convinced, tell the average, redstate, 'Murican voter they get the same healthcare as the troops they have such rock hard Freedom Boners® for, and it would have been a much easier sell.

*sarcasm heavily implied.
I'd say maybe you should run for office, but I'm putting the odds at 2,000:1 that you don't make it through the first debate without a nuclear meltdown the likes of which this world has never seen. :D
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,494
9,525
I've been saying this almost since this debate started, and this gets way into the weeds on the Democrats total inability to sell any idea, no matter how good it is. "Healthcare Reform" from day one should have been trotted out by the Dems as "Tri-care for all". We all love and support the troops, right?* Give them the best of everything, right? I'm convinced, tell the average, redstate, 'Murican voter they get the same healthcare as the troops they have such rock hard Freedom Boners® for, and it would have been a much easier sell.

*sarcasm heavily implied.
or....with a nod and a wink tell the average blue state murican you can keep your doctor and your insurance will get cheaper....
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,138
16,533
Riding the baggage carousel.
or....with a nod and a wink tell the average blue state murican you can keep your doctor and your insurance will get cheaper....
It never had to be sold in blue states. This is what I was saying about Democratic messaging. "Keep your doctor" was about trying to bring in mouth breathers who in all likelihood didn't have private health care or a doctor in the first place. People who didn't want Government hands on their Medicare.:rolleyes: Unlike some presidents* Obama at least admitted he was wrong. And people lost plans because those plans were shit. Progressive Dems, and hippies like me, were pissed off because Single Payer wasn't included in the ACA. And that's what Tri-care is. Single payer. For the Troops. You know, socialized medicine.


Not about race.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,138
16,533
Riding the baggage carousel.
What made them 'shit'?
Generally, they didn't cover one or more of the following:
The ACA makes significant changes to health plan benefit design, setting uniform standards for covered benefits and cost sharing in the individual and small group markets. The ACA requires all non-grandfathered plans in the individual and small group markets, including those sold both inside and outside the Marketplaces, to cover ten categories of essential health benefits.21 These categories include:

  • Ambulatory patient services
  • Emergency services
  • Hospitalization
  • Maternity and newborn care
  • Mental health and substance use disorders, including behavioral health treatment
  • Prescription drugs
  • Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices
  • Laboratory services
  • Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
  • Pediatric services, including vision and dental care
A buddy of mine here in town, a private fencing contractor, was pissed when he lost his "healthcare" plan after ACA implementation. It literally did not cover ER visits, ambulance rides, or prescriptions. IMO, if a healthcare plan doesn't cover, you know, your health, I don't really know what you're spending money on. He now has a subsidized plan that actually covers those things.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Generally, they didn't cover one or more of the following:

A buddy of mine here in town, a private fencing contractor, was pissed when he lost his "healthcare" plan after ACA implementation. It literally did not cover ER visits, ambulance rides, or prescriptions. IMO, if a healthcare plan doesn't cover, you know, your health, I don't really know what you're spending money on. He now has a subsidized plan that actually covers those things.
Makes sense for policies like that.
We've been in the individual market for 15 years as a family, as have many of my self employed friends, and our policies took a turn for the worse with ACA despite having coverage in the above listed areas.
Our current $1500+/mo policy is crap compared to what we had previously; higher co-pays/deductilbles, higher med costs, my wife lost most of her doctors etc.
It's been pretty infuriating.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,375
12,529
In a van.... down by the river
Makes sense for policies like that.
We've been in the individual market for 15 years as a family, as have many of my self employed friends, and our policies took a turn for the worse with ACA despite having coverage in the above listed areas.
Our current $1500+/mo policy is crap compared to what we had previously; higher co-pays/deductilbles, higher med costs, my wife lost most of her doctors etc.
It's been pretty infuriating.
I think everyone should have to at least go through the motions of checking coverage in the individual markets for themselves... just to see how fucked up it is. Single-payer can't come too soon. :mad:
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,138
16,533
Riding the baggage carousel.
Makes sense for policies like that.
We've been in the individual market for 15 years as a family, as have many of my self employed friends, and our policies took a turn for the worse with ACA despite having coverage in the above listed areas.
Our current $1500+/mo policy is crap compared to what we had previously; higher co-pays/deductilbles, higher med costs, my wife lost most of her doctors etc.
It's been pretty infuriating.
That's what health insurance costs. The issue isn't the ACA and/or the individual market. I work for the largest regional airline in the world and my monthly health insurance costs 1290(ish) dollars a month for a family of three, and believe me, it's not great. The only "benefit" I get from an employer plan is that they claim they are picking up 2/3rds the cost (To be clear, I'm not sure I believe this). For the same price I could get tons of plans on the CO state exchange and have better benefits. It took 2 months for my wife to get in to see a specialist for her colitis. I'm due for another annual check up. Earliest I can be seen is 6 weeks out.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
23,926
14,438
where the trails are
I know someone who is self insured, diabetic and with their premiums + annual out of pocket expenses pays almost $900 average per month.

That's insane.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,827
13,060
My wife just had to go through choosing all of her coverage from scratch as her company had changed providers, it drove both of us nuts trying to work out the best option. At this point I just let my work coverage roll over each year and hope it's actually covering me.

Being employed in the UK was so much easier, taxes all handled by payroll, nothing to file, any supplementary healthcare given by your employer was on top of the public healthcare so nothing to pick.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,225
20,003
Sleazattle
I know someone who is self insured, diabetic and with their premiums + annual out of pocket expenses pays almost $900 average per month.

That's insane.
When I went back to school the University supplied insurance program was no deductible and only cost about $2k/year. I have often thought that it may be cheaper to enroll full time at a community college and purchase student insurance than it would be to purchase insurance on your own.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,029
7,549
That's what health insurance costs. The issue isn't the ACA and/or the individual market. I work for the largest regional airline in the world and my monthly health insurance costs 1290(ish) dollars a month for a family of three, and believe me, it's not great. The only "benefit" I get from an employer plan is that they claim they are picking up 2/3rds the cost (To be clear, I'm not sure I believe this). For the same price I could get tons of plans on the CO state exchange and have better benefits. It took 2 months for my wife to get in to see a specialist for her colitis. I'm due for another annual check up. Earliest I can be seen is 6 weeks out.
My family HDHP plan through Anthem costs $1,454/mo, up from $1,219 a few years ago. I pay $19 of that.

https://www.cu.edu/doc/insurance-rate-comparison-chartpdf-2?download=true

When I went back to school the University supplied insurance program was no deductible and only cost about $2k/year. I have often thought that it may be cheaper to enroll full time at a community college and purchase student insurance than it would be to purchase insurance on your own.
When I was at UW as a grad student, pre-ACA, the plan capped at $1M lifetime benefit. One of my classmates got leukemia during school, hit that limit, and then died with a ton of bills...
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,260
8,765
Crawlorado
I think everyone should have to at least go through the motions of checking coverage in the individual markets for themselves... just to see how fucked up it is. Single-payer can't come too soon. :mad:
I'd be really curious to see how much single payer would cost. Obviously under the current system I pay some amount per year, and my employer pays some amount per year, how much on top of that would be required to institute a single payer system?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,029
7,549
I'd be really curious to see how much single payer would cost. Obviously under the current system I pay some amount per year, and my employer pays some amount per year, how much on top of that would be required to institute a single payer system?
That's the problem, shit's expensive. Not addressing that (rationing! no paying for $100k/month treatments for people 6 months from death's door...) won't solve the problem.

See the Colorado single payer plan that instituted a 10% income tax up to $450k income, and still would likely have been insolvent from what I read... (thus part of the reason why I didn't support it despite generally being a flaming liberal)
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,375
12,529
In a van.... down by the river
That's the problem, shit's expensive. Not addressing that (rationing! no paying for $100k/month treatments for people 6 months from death's door...) won't solve the problem.

See the Colorado single payer plan that instituted a 10% income tax up to $450k income, and still would likely have been insolvent from what I read... (thus part of the reason why I didn't support it despite generally being a flaming liberal)
Yup and yup. Single-payer ain't gonna work very well on a state-by-state basis. We, as a country, have to accept that healthcare is a fundamental privilege of a *real* 1st world nation.