irate2: , indeed...It *is* International Talk Like a Pirate Day...
Help, Help, I'm being repressed!
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
irate2: , indeed...It *is* International Talk Like a Pirate Day...
holy crap that's a really good idea!!! too bad he's in FL and i'm in NC...hmmm, i'll have to work on that one. do i owe you a intellectual property tax for the idea?Mate, you and your brother could make a fortune out of this. You taser them in the face and when their eyeball explodes you tell them "hey, I know a guy who could fix that for you" and give them your brother's card. License to print money if you ask me.
Alternative viewing:
John Kerry: Any questions?
Student: babble babble fcking with you babble
Moderator: Times up
Student: babble babble fcking with you babble
Police: Time for you to go, please
Student: babble babble fcking with you babble
Police: Will you please leave with us?
Student: babble babble fcking with you babble
Police: ZAP!
Student: I SAID I WOULD LEAVE!!!!!
Also applies to UCLA.
Every time the police has asked me to leave a location, I did so and funny enough, I have never been tasered.
John Kerry: Any questions?
Student: babble babble fcking with you babble
Moderator: Times up
Student: babble babble fcking with you babble
Police: Time for you to go, please
Student: babble babble fcking with you babble
Police: Will you please leave with us?
Student: babble babble fcking with you babble
Police: ZAP!
Student: I SAID I WOULD LEAVE!!!!!
Also applies to UCLA.
Every time the police has asked me to leave a location, I did so and funny enough, I have never been tasered.
That's really weird. I wonder why that is.
How about this taser use? Also justified?
It sounds like she was resisting to me...
It sounds like she was resisting to me...
There's nothing in that news report that can tell you whether or not the force used was excessive.
I'm no expert, but 9 shots for a total of 160 seconds doesn't seem excessive? For those with taser experience, wouldn't there be a time frame in between shots for subduing a wheelchair bound woman to avoid having to shock her for almost 3 minutes?
If 9 shots didn't gain compliance, 10 shots might be the way to go, no? You know nothing of the fact pattern surrounding the use of the taser in this situation, and the particular details that make your baseless, universal conclusions less than useless-- in fact, harmful-- to our understanding of the situation.
If someone's armed with a knife and presents a threat to another person, a cop can shoot him in the face, so it's quite possible that the use of the taser, even 10 times, was a very restrained use of force. It's also possible it was flagrantly abusive. We just don't know a ****ing thing other than what a defense attorney is telling the news.
The fact that she's in a wheelchair presents a modifier as to whether or not she presented a real threat, but none of us know a thing about the essential facts--who was where, with what, why, doing what?
The fact that she's schizophrenic only goes to show that she was more unpredictable and irrational than a sane person, and in fact doesn't garner her any sympathy points as far as use of force is concerned. People have to get past the idea that proper police use of force is somehow punishment, rather than a response to a factual situation.
didn't read all the thread cuz i'm at work. two words:
POLICE. STATE.
POLICE. STATE.
If my comments have swayed anyone's understanding of the situation, please stand up.
My baseless, universal conclusions were open to correction considering I phrased them as questions in order to gain more insight into the 'fact pattern' surrounding the use of tasers.
Hah. As police use-of-force becomes more and more regulated by Constitutional standards, but more and more publicized, people complain more and more about it. Try this **** in, oh, 1859 or 1955. Or in some other country.
You said the use of force was "clearly excessive." That's clearly baseless.
Main Entry: ex·ces·sive
Pronunciation: ik-'se-siv
Function: adjective
: exceeding what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal
"A short blast of 1/4 second duration will startle an attacker, cause minor muscle contractions, and have a repelling effect. A moderate length blast of 1 to 4 seconds can cause an attacker to fall to the ground and result in some temporary mental confusion. It may make an assailant unwilling to continue an attack, but he will be able to get up almost immediately. A full charge of 5 seconds can immobilize an attacker, cause disorientation, loss of balance, and falling to the ground, and can leave them weak and dazed for some minutes afterward." http://www.feelsafer.info/stun.html (If this is a blatant lie and nowhere near correct, let me know.)
160/9 = 17.7 (If a few of the shots were less than 17 seconds, obviously one or more of the shots would be in excess of 17 seconds)
I understand there are plenty of extenuating circumstances surrounding the situation, but forgive me if I find it hard to believe there was no way to subdue the bitch somewhere between shots.
It can. Did it?
None of us know anything pertinent. It's easy to jump on the bandwagon. Like I said, it's possible it was proper, marginal, or improper use of force. No one knows based on what we've read.
Yes, we can't be sure.
I still hold 160 seconds of electric stun as excessive (i.e. more than normal), but that's my obviously baseless conclusion.
Excessive, as a legal term with regard to use of force, doesn't mean "more than normal"...it means "more than justified." (It doesn't even mean "more than necessary.")
touche. but there are also more and more instances of police overstepping their boundaries.
I don't think there are...I think people are simply less accepting of police beating the crap out of people today. It used to be considered pretty normal, and standards of force weren't as codified, nor were officers as educated on those codes. (Plus, YouTube didn't exist, nor did camcorders, nor the Internet to move minor news stories everywhere instantaneously...) All of which, I think, means we're moving in the right direction.
a taser is more effective on more people than some other less-lethal applications but there are some who are not affected by it. their options were; 1. keep using the taser in the hopes that she'll drop the weapon or comply or 2. shoot her.
SHE WAS ATTACKING THEM WITH AN EDGED WEAPON!!! helloooo! since when are police required to take a life threatening slice from a knife just to keep an attacker from being harmed? if a knife weilding chick rolled into your house in her wheelchair stabbing at you would YOU try and talk her down? hell no! you'd probably start throwing heavy stuff at her head.
let's get real folks. cops aren't super human. we don't have special powers that make our efforts more effective than...say...your mother's. if some crazy chick in a wheelchair is slicing at me with a knife i'll probably have to take her out because we don't have the luxury of a less-lethal weapon like a taser in my department. or...i suppose i could go out to the car, grab the shotgun and hit her with a beanbag round from 10 feet away. i'm sure that would help her heart condition
Well, man, let's be fair...you'd probably just walk down some stairs so she couldn't roll her way into a place where she could slice ya...I mean, you ARE dealing with a chick in a wheelchair. But again...the circumstances...who ELSE was she forseeably able to stab??if some crazy chick in a wheelchair is slicing at me with a knife i'll probably have to take her out because we don't have the luxury of a less-lethal weapon like a taser in my department. or...i suppose i could go out to the car, grab the shotgun and hit her with a beanbag round from 10 feet away. i'm sure that would help her heart condition
nah, not me...i can't stand knife wielding wheelchair chicks!
I just shoot the spokes out of their wheels.
I keep coming back to the feather duster.if some crazy chick in a wheelchair is slicing at me with a knife i'll probably have to take her out because we don't have the luxury of a less-lethal weapon like a taser in my department. or...i suppose i could go out to the car, grab the shotgun and hit her with a beanbag round from 10 feet away. i'm sure that would help her heart condition
Are you wearing a French maid's outfit? Might explain it.
only because that's what sells...I can guarantee you the number of incidents where police are helping someone far outweigh the other...D
u hit it dead on...
the people complaining the most about the cops are the same one who are outraged when the cops arent around to help them.
It's hard to handle women these day, particulary pregnant ones, but Taser can do it:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/223578_taser10.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/223578_taser10.html
as mentioned before...another case of not listening th police. If a person wants to be confrontational then you better to be able to accept the consequences pregnant or not. As far as I'm concerned what kind of mother speeds to get her kid to school then resists police after getting busted by police thus putting her unborn child at risk....D
Albion
St. Gabriel
Chowchilla
All cities which house lifers and death row inmates. Female inmates.
Back to the Kerry rally... I'll agree, the student was clearly out of line (whole ass) and too pushy with his questions to actually accomplish anything other than getting the boot, but.... the thing I'm trying to figure out here is; since when does an irate speaker who just ran out of mic time EVER deserve to have ANY hand laid on him.
Haven't we seen the drama on Cspan when congress members (actually show up) refuse to agree with each other or keep still when the hammer is being hit.? There aren't enough tazers in DC to handle those guys when their bowls are in an up roar!
If there had been more of an effort to remove him non-violently first, I would have to agree with manimal and the others 100%. But, they grabbed him, basically, as the mic was being turned off.
I don't care how much of a good cop you are, it's absolutely wrong to physically grab someone who is being non-violent and, at that point, truly not refusing anything, other than to shut his mouth. Situations like this will only cause more long term problems between civilians and the police.
My vote is that there was clearly excessive force used from the second they grabbed himlthumbsdown: he will get payed
Haven't we seen the drama on Cspan when congress members (actually show up) refuse to agree with each other or keep still when the hammer is being hit.? There aren't enough tazers in DC to handle those guys when their bowls are in an up roar!
If there had been more of an effort to remove him non-violently first, I would have to agree with manimal and the others 100%. But, they grabbed him, basically, as the mic was being turned off.
I don't care how much of a good cop you are, it's absolutely wrong to physically grab someone who is being non-violent and, at that point, truly not refusing anything, other than to shut his mouth. Situations like this will only cause more long term problems between civilians and the police.
My vote is that there was clearly excessive force used from the second they grabbed him
lthumbsdown: he will get payed
Also, there have been references to the idea of, "it's a hell of alot safer than a baton or gun".
Sure, when it's necessary. Let's bare in mind that he was only concealing a book and a big mouth. If he accidentally dropped dead from a bad reaction to the tazer, where would the justification lie?:
He ran out of mic time???
Sure, when it's necessary. Let's bare in mind that he was only concealing a book and a big mouth. If he accidentally dropped dead from a bad reaction to the tazer, where would the justification lie?:
He ran out of mic time???
bwhahahahahahaha
Maybe they were just trying to recharge her batteries.
Is your issue that you don't agree with the current Constitutional standards governing the use of force, or that you just don't understand that the cops were operating within them, even in simply removing him from the venue?...My vote is that there was clearly excessive force used from the second they grabbed him
Tazing an unarmed loudmouth in public is always a bad idea. Even if it's not illegal it's just stupid; it completely freaks everyone out. Teams of police managed to force submission for cuffing long before tazers came along, and it it can't be that hard to put a knee in an unarmed weaklings back, cuff him, and then drag him out screaming the whole way. Manimal, I realize tazing may be the easiest option, but I also don't buy that it's so hard to deal with this kid. ****, any highschool wrestler over 120 lbs could have had this kid on the ground with his arm twisted behind his back in about 5 seconds.
If the protocol/EOF is to use a tazer in this situation, the protocol should change. "It's hard" is not a good enough reason for me when someone is resisting. Attacking, sure, light him up, but unarmed and resisting I say suck it up and do it the hard way.
If the protocol/EOF is to use a tazer in this situation, the protocol should change. "It's hard" is not a good enough reason for me when someone is resisting. Attacking, sure, light him up, but unarmed and resisting I say suck it up and do it the hard way.