Help me! (cadence, pedal stroke)

Westy · Jun 28, 2007

A fast cadence isn't always the best. I'm most comfortable, powerfull and efficient @ 70-85 rpm. If I try to spin any faster even under no load my legs seem to build acid and tire out and I generally have a crappy ride. I can generate more power spinning fast for a quick sprint but I prefer to work on and ride in an endurance mode.

It seems to me that a lot of people have this mindset that since Lance spins like a turbine so should everyone else. Find out where you are most comfortable and stick with it.

GravityFreakTJ · Jun 28, 2007

FYI on the power cranks , i have been told by more than a handful of people that i f you have knee issues to stay away from them.

as far as cadence goes i think it is as unique as heart rate. i seem to be in the 100 - 110 range most of the time. team mate of mine usually runs 80- 90 range but we are pretty evenly matched if you know what i mean.

GravityFreakTJ · Jun 28, 2007

LordOpie said:
Does anyone use one of them PowerTap thingies?

yes i do

GravityFreakTJ · Jun 28, 2007

one of the guys I train with around here ( he's a Cat2) got some power cranks. he said 5 minutes is a good goal for the first ride on them, and thats on the trainer no less

DRB · Jun 28, 2007

LordOpie said:
If I drop below 80, my legs get really tired fast. Which means I kind of suck at climbing out of the saddle... something else I have to work on. ugh.

I seem to be most comfortable around 85-95, but what IF I'm more comfortable at 105? I start getting really sloppy around 97-98.

Does anyone use one of them PowerTap thingies?

Then go with 85-95 (aiming at the high end) for your average and focus on perfecting your spin with that cadence. Try shorter bursts at higher rates and see if you improve.

Simply being aware of your cadence and attempting to perfect your spin, puts you ahead of 90% of the cycling world.

GravityFreakTJ · Jun 28, 2007

LordOpie said:
That was insightful.

Ok, then forget that. I couldn't dedicate an entire bike to just a few minutes at a time.

very insightful eh? if you have questions about the Power Taps feel free to give me a call.

As far as dedicating a bike to the power cranks thats not needed. the cranks have a 5mm screw that you can tighten up that locks them in like normal cranks

Ian F · Jun 28, 2007

A few generalities:

Practice

The "scraping the foot on a curb" technique works for me when I'm working on my spin. It seems to keep me from pushing down as hard. Also seems to take pressure of my knees when they're bothering me. Keeping a steady speed, however, takes practice.

Practice

Your saddle position needs to be perfect. Not too high and not too low. This is critical for good spinning.

Practice

Get a fixed gear bike.

Did I mention Practice?

DRB · Jun 28, 2007

LordOpie said:
I must be an idiot,

That's what I've been saying.

LordOpie said:
cuz every time I do that, I get choppy and sloppy, especially just over the top of the pedal stroke. If you're looking at it drive-train side, when I hit 1-2 o'clock, I feel like i'm "slipping" or something. I lose any pressure on the pedal.

I'll try focusing on it more, but I am trying, so maybe there something other than just being mental? Maybe the way I'm ankling or something?

(I can't afford to pay someone to evaluate, which I why I'm bugging y'all)

IanF has a good point about fit. That can mess with your spin. Plus coming off knee surgery, there is not telling how your fit might have been affected. Getting your fit checked might not be a bad idea. I know of at least one place in Denver/Highlands Ranch (BikeSource) that has folks that focus almost exclusively on fit. I don't think that its that expensive.

Don't stress about it. If you can spin at 95 rpm, that's really good. I think IanF mentioned something about practice being important. Well patience is as important. Again just try short bursts at the higher cadence. It is either going to improve your technique or point out the fact that you've found your sweet spot already.

Ian F · Jun 28, 2007

DRB said:
Don't stress about it. If you can spin at 95 rpm, that's really good.

Agreed. Especially if you are mainly a mtn biker, who tend to be more comfortable at a lower cadence.

A lot of pro roadies spin very fast. They also work on it constantly. It's thier job. And they generally have pro trainers to lab-test and evaluate them to get the optimum cadence for power/energy. The next to you watch a pro peloton, notice that nearly every rider is in a different gear and spinning at a different rate.

For the rest of us mere mortals, we spin at whatever is comfortable.

I also agree about re-fitting after surgery. What was good for you before may not be so now.

eric strt6 · Jun 28, 2007

Opie

I always thought I had a good pedal stroke/spin until I had my tri coach add me to his bi weekly spin class [Muddy's house of pain]

Best damn thing I ever did. try this: Road bike on a fluid trainer set up level. do a 15 minute easy spin warm up [no speed or big gears just get loose] then pick up the speed and resistance [if you have a HRM 75% max] for 5-10 minutes.

Now its time to drop into one of your easiest gears, pop one foot out and brace it against the floor or trainer and do 30 seconds of one leg spin concentrating on constant pedal pressure [drop the heel it helps] then switch legs for another 30.

Spin [both legs] for 10 then repeat. I'd stay away form any high gears if I'm rehabing the knee. if you want to add some fast easy spins with good technique thats ok.

The goal is to over a period of weeks build up to 2 minute one legged drills in the middle of the cog set. If you can do 2 minutes in a moderate gear you will be amazed at how nice your spin will become if you concentrate on the form you perfected doing one legged spinning

Kihaji · Jun 28, 2007

Well, according to Carmichael, he teaches that higher cadences use more of your aerobic system, and lower cadence are more of your musculature.

There are positives and negatives to each style, you just have to decide if you want to be the uniball (Lance) with high cadence, or the Jan with low cadence.

SPINTECK · Jun 28, 2007

- The knee thing is good and bad. My buddy had the ACL surgery and had to take it easy for 6 months and he was strong as **** afterwards, but I don't know what to tell you about the ACL other than that, so take what I say with the assumption I have no knee problems (other than a big calcium deposit from Osgood Schlaughters during the one growth spert that I had.)

- Crank Arm Lenght: super importante. 5mm may seem small, but for every 5 mm in crank length, your entire leg moves an addition 15 cm.....because your leg becomes part of the lever arm. This means your body is making bigger circles and bigger circles take more muscle depending on your build, thus high rpms in larger circles may actually build up lactic acid quicker. 170, 172.5 is good for spinners.

-Rest, rest, rest- it's hard to spin if you're not following a training program because some days your legs are fried. Took me a while to know my body and what days I should spin. I usually do an 2 easy spin days and a day with the group at high intensity. high spin for me is 95-1-3. FYI, I do my best solo rides when I alternate from 85-87 periods back/forth to 95-98 periods. Spinning is supposed to build less lactic acid because of the pre-mentioned aerobic activity.

- I used to focus on the dead spot, but then I read an article recently that said the dead spot is such a small percent of the stroke that it's okay to focus on the powerparts. It may all be mental, but little tricks like that might work. I,e, focusing on the deadspot might work, but focusing on other spots will work too.

-I use my cadence reading much more, like a video game. Gives me something to look at and think about while I'm riding or in pain.

Hope any of that helps.

some extra stuff:

http://www.tri-ecoach.com/art11.htm

http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/8217.0.html

http://www.analyticcycling.com/DiffEqMotionDownhillSprint_Page.html

loco-gringo · Jun 28, 2007

I agree that 85-100 is right for me. Even watching, I end up with an avg of 79 or something stupid. Ride to comfort and you will be much happier, regardless of any other parameter.

sunny · Jun 30, 2007

I attended a spin class this past winter, right after I re-built my old steel road bike into a fixie. At first, when these guys would do a "spin-up" exercise, I thought there was no way it was possible that they were hitting the cadence they said they were...

Spin-up exercise:
Pedaling at each interval for 30 to 45 seconds, begin at 65 rpm, and increase your cadence gradually in 5-rpm increments till you hit 160.

As I said, I thought this was simply not possible, and even talked with one of the guys after spin class about how I was not a road racer and would not be able to achieve over 135 rpm. Ever. He said I should practice, and keep riding the fixie. A couple months later, sure enough, I saw the numbers on my computer: 172 rpm in the middle of a sprint exercise. :shocked:

A fast spin is achievable, it just talks practice. Riding a fixie that is geared low (38x16) certainly helped me.

The suggestion to keep your feet flat (scraping off mud) is another good one. Try not to think of "up and down" strokes, and not even circular strokes, but more of a box. The "box" image helped me to achieve the circle. When doing these things, try to relax the other parts of your body that will tend to get tense; drop your shoulders, wiggle your fingers and toes.

Being on the fixie is good for me, because I am forced to relax on the downhills and let my legs spin. Of course I have the "face insurance" hand brakes, but these days I try to use them only on the terrifying downhills. On the road, I try to shoot for about 105 rpm on the geared bike, and whatever I can manage on the fixie.

Fixies are fun, and can be a cheap alternative to fancy gear...

Come to the dark side... :spam:

Serial Midget · Jul 1, 2007

L'oopie - I developed my best spin on rollers with a cadence monitor. The investment is only $250.00 and the pay-off is amazing.

Silver · Jul 1, 2007

What happens to your heart rate at different cadences?

That's how I settled into a cadence that felt good, and for me it happens to be quite fast.

Serial Midget · Jul 2, 2007

On rollers a sloppy spin will put the wheels all over the place - when you focus on smoothing things out you'll naturally improve your spin.

Because if you don't you'll fall off.

Help me! (cadence, pedal stroke)

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