Help me spend my tax return, time to pick a fork, 40, boxxer, 888?

p-spec · Jan 27, 2012

Wat do you like ????

-quality
-lightest weight possible
-futur replacement parts
-stiffness
-crap
-be in the crowd of fanboys

pretty much you want a 40,cause fox aint going nowhere.And yes you want kashima.

staike · Jan 27, 2012

Here's a cool story bro... a friend of me on 40's did an upgrade to his 2011 oem fork and got 2012 Kashima stanchions. Sure, the difference was noticeable, but not really worth the price. Another friend sent his in for a service and got the new SKF seals, it's way more noticeable.

p-spec · Jan 27, 2012

You want a 40.

Parts is more aimed towards rumours of marz being sold.

All the guys I know personally on 888ti's LOVE em.

Its going to be a personal pick within the 2.

I love the 40 for numerous reasons,to its performance,stiffness and axle.
Just all around great fork,very light to if you ask me for its size of chassis.

4130biker · Jan 27, 2012

If I'm not mistaken, I think Fox took one out of Marzocchi's playbook by using the SKF seals. Seems more proven to me than Kashima for buttery smoothness.

staike · Jan 27, 2012

SKF seals: http://www.pinkbike.com/video/192272/

The rumour about Marzocchi going down is long gone and put down by Marzocchi.

descente · Jan 27, 2012

for 2012 fox redesigned the seals for their forks and had SKF the seal company make them. they are lower friction, and made a huge difference when i put them in my TALAS 32 and my old Boxxer (yes you read that right). they are backwards compatible, so if you decide on a 2011 the better seals will still work.

kashima is nice, it resists abrasions better. i wouldn't pay out the pants for it, but they do feel very smooth. it might also be the answer to the weird wear i've seen on a lot of fox forks (near the dust wipers, most times you don't see it until you actually take the fork apart for service).

jnooth · Jan 27, 2012

honestly. The all will be a big upgrade. all will allow you to have fun.

here is my oppinion on all. (speaking for US customers) I understand service is different in different countries

Marz- really reliable, maybe the a little on the heavier side but not by much (no experiance with service or warranty)

Fox- also really reliable, solid performance, service is a bit slow in the US (from my experiance)

Boxxer- Awesome if maintained well, if not maintained properly they will not run well. By maintained well i mean keep up on services and change seals when they need to be replaced not after. warranty and service is second to none

All these forks are top quality and they all will be worth the money if you are willing to treat them like high quality parts.

rockofullr · Jan 27, 2012

staike said:
SKF seals: http://www.pinkbike.com/video/192272/

Lol Yes i can clearly tell the difference in that video :rolleyes:

How bout something qualitative. Put two forks side by side (identical except for the seals/coating) then add weight to each until the static friction is overcome and the fork compresses.

What is the difference in minimum weight to compress the forks?

Udi · Jan 27, 2012

kickstand said:
so you are telling me that in your eyes the kashima did not make a big enough difference to justify the additional cost? Personal experience is good info.

The major difference in Kashima is durability, it resists wear a lot better than the regular hard anodizing which some Fox forks have had trouble with in the past.

If you are already partial to Fox products, I doubt you'll be anything but impressed with the new 40 - but don't skimp and get an older / cheaper one. The 2012 is brilliant with the Kashima, SKF Seals, and inverted damper. If you want to save money, you could find a 2011 (Kashima) which will have all the performance of the 2012 (same damper too), and you can install the SKF seals later if you want.

If you get the 2011/2012 Kashima 40, you won't have to mess around with damper changes or mods, both of them work very well out of the box.

staike · Jan 27, 2012

Well, the point is that it is indeed pretty noticeable.

On the other side, I'm on a 888 EVO Ti and loving it. If I of some reason were in need of a new fork I would get another Marzocchi, no doubt. Super performance and a great service (not that they really it very frequently, duh) center in my city is a no-brainer.

One of my F40 friends sent his fork across the country for a complete overhaul a month ago and got them back a week later. The reason why they were so quick was that they haven't touched it, just returned it. So he had to send it back again and now, three weeks later he received it fully serviced. But the whole servicecenter argument is pretty weak because it could be the complete opposite for you.

Even with the SKF seals, they have more stiction than my 888. He likes a pretty "stiff" setup, so he wasn't a big fan of the 888 EVO because he said it felt like it was TOO compliant so he didn't get enough feedback from the terrain, but with the new V2 he's considering it as it's more "racey" and it's matching his new rear shock better.

baca262 · Jan 27, 2012

yup, 888 really mutes the terrain, i was wary of front end slides since i couldn't feel when the front wheel lost traction when i got mine. i got used to it though but it was quite scary in the beginning.

Udi · Jan 27, 2012

I felt the proper 2012 40 had lower stiction than the 888 Evo once both were broken in. They are close though and probably to the point of splitting hairs.

I'd be happy to run the new 888 V2 - assuming it has shimmed rebound damping now. It's also a little lighter than the Fox.

One other thing I like about the 40 is that you get an external HSC adjuster, which is something I find useful to tailor to different tracks without having to re-valve anything.

p-spec · Jan 27, 2012

kickstand said:
http://www.jensonusa.com/Suspension-Forks/Fox-40-RC2-Oe-11

I'm assuming these are non kashima since it doesn't specify?

Correct

descente · Jan 27, 2012

don't 2012 Fox 40s come with Ti spring as standard?

IH8Rice · Jan 27, 2012

descente said:
don't 2012 Fox 40s come with Ti spring as standard?

yep. the pre-installed one is Ti

p-spec · Jan 27, 2012

descente said:
don't 2012 Fox 40s come with Ti spring as standard?

2011 did as well.

Anything OEM ( well maybe the new session 9.9 is ecception as well as others )

wen you buy the fork alone,you get the kashimas and the ti spring.

98% sure OEM ones come with steel springs.

William42 · Jan 27, 2012

Incredibly strong recommendation for one of them with a lot of vitriol for the others. An insult on your intelligence for even considering one of them, and telling others who recommend differently that they are the dumbest people alive.

S.K.C. · Jan 27, 2012

1) I want something that I don't have to modify, so custom cartidges and all that jazz are out.
2) I want something that is fairly easy to service, I don't have any problem servicing something so long as I have a repair manual or guide to get me through the first service.
3) I am a set it and forget it kind of guy, I may add a click or two here and there as I see fit, but once I get it dialed in I don't like to change it a lot from track to track.

1) I'm pretty much of the same mindset but I DO like to tinker a bit with the internals if the fork can't do what I want it to do out of the box (personal pref / ride characteristics). After that, it's just a matter of turning adjusters to fine-tune a particular track.

Q1: What is your riding skill level? (In GES terms: Pro, Cat.1, Cat.2, Cat.3)

Q2: Where do you spend most of your time riding?

Q3: What do you look for in suspension performance?
A) Plushness with excellent HSC sensitivity?
B) Progressive end-stroke?
C) Linear end stroke?
D) Snappy Rebound stroke with a bit of "pop"?
E) Excellent mid-stroke support and/or limited brake dive?

2) This depends on what you define as "service". Some guys like to do a complete tear down while others just like to change the oil in the lowers (if it's a closed system - think Boxxers). If you like to go balls-deep then servicing a 40 down to the FiT damper is a bit tricky for the experienced, and definitely a challenge for those who have never boldly gone in that direction before. If something really goes south with the FiT cart, that means mailing it back to FOX. Not a problem, but something you should be aware of.
Changing Oil:
Lowers - 40's just require you to pull the lowers, drain, clean, then reassemble. Same for Boxxers and 888's too if I recall correctly.
Dampers - Fairly simple procedure to service the oil inside the dampers of Boxxers and 888's. Between the 2 Boxxers are a bit less messy. 40's have a sealed FiT cart that usually requires you to mail back to FOX for servicing, although it is possible to do it yourself, but more involved than a Boxxer or 888.

Boxxers and 40's have service manuals all over the web, but 888's... not sure. Does anyone know if Marz has released a detailed 888 service manual for 2012 forks?

3) This relates to #1) a bit. It depends on what you are looking for in fork performance. Depending on what you prefer in performance, may eliminate 1 or 2 choices. The Boxxer WC and R2D2/C3PO have loads of useful adjustmenst for tuning almost every aspect of fork performance. The 40 and 888 have less rider adjustments but are very useful in adjusting fork behavior.

Most of these repsonses are in general terms, but if you can answer these questions this can help specify the direction you need to go.

Hope this helps!

tabletop84 · Jan 27, 2012

1) I want something that I don't have to modify, so custom cartidges and all that jazz are out.
2) I want something that is fairly easy to service, I don't have any problem servicing something so long as I have a repair manual or guide to get me through the first service.
3) I am a set it and forget it kind of guy, I may add a click or two here and there as I see fit, but once I get it dialed in I don't like to change it a lot from track to track.

you want a rc3 evo

S.K.C. said:
Boxxers and 40's have service manuals all over the web, but 888's... not sure. Does anyone know if Marz has released a detailed 888 service manual for 2012 forks?

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Team-CRCNukeproof-Tech-Sessions-MSA-Fork-Strip-Build-2011.html

https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=546270

IH8Rice · Jan 27, 2012

S.K.C. said:
xxer or 888.

Boxxers and 40's have service manuals all over the web, but 888's... not sure. Does anyone know if Marz has released a detailed 888 service manual for 2012 forks?

nothing like what fox or RS has available to the public, but they are available to LBS's.

demo 9 · Jan 28, 2012

fox 40, thassit, enough said. Its strong, rides real good, and has been consistently improving on the same chassis, IMO, pretty darn dialed

b.utters · Jan 28, 2012

^ not as dialed as 888's

staike · Jan 28, 2012

888 rebuild video: CRC Tech - Rebuild of RC3 Marzocchi 888 fork on Vimeo

nmpearson · Jan 28, 2012

i just got a 2012 888 rc3 evo v2 non ti today...it is stunningly smooth. i'm absolutely stunned. a touch heavier than i'd like...i'm thinking maybe i should have gone TI...but i'm so stoked

Jm_ · Jan 28, 2012

staike said:
888 rebuild video

Pretty useless, it's just how to change seals. Revalving and getting into the rebound and compression stacks and that type of stuff is probably what people are more interested in.

tabletop84 · Jan 28, 2012

Jm_ said:
Pretty useless, it's just how to change seals. Revalving and getting into the rebound and compression stacks and that type of stuff is probably what people are more interested in.

Op asked about a service-manual and don't want to touch shimstacks and that stuff.

S.K.C. · Jan 28, 2012

kickstand said:
Im surprised how many are recommending the fox and Marzochi and how few are suggesting the boxxer. As someone who's not as up on the technology and not a hardcore racer who's just getting into the full Dh stuff I assumed the boxxer would have gotten more praise. Im curious why it doesn't?

Boxxers are still one of the best race forks out there. The new versions (model year 2010 and later) allow the rider to tune the following via adjusters:

High Speed Compression (HSC) - Landings from drops, square-edged hits
Low Speed Compression (LSC) - Small bumps, rocks, trail impefections

High Speed Rebound (HSR) - Rebound from drops, square edged hits
Low Speed Rebound (LSR) - Rebound from small bumps, rocks, etc.

Bottom Out - Tunes resistance to bottoming out the fork

Pre Load - used to fine tune sag

The reason not many have mentioned the Boxxer is that FOX and Marz have released new upgrades for their 2012 model year forks, so right now those are the ones with the highest profile. FOX added a deeper Kashi coat and SKF seals to the 40 and Marz redesigned their piston assembly (now called the V2) to add more mid-stroke support. Additionally both companies have had major releases in previous years: FOX with the inverted damper in 2011 so now you could FINALLY tune the damn compression adjuster without having to get off your bike and give your fork a reach-around and Marz with its successful and triumphant return in 2010 to good quality forks comparable to the older Italian-made 888's from 04' to 07'. The Boxxer has remained mostly unchanged from 2011 for the 2012 model year with the exception of Keronite coated lowers which is basically a ceramic coating that is used in place of powder coat.

If you are not a hardcore racer and don't really know what your suspension set-up preferences are (check my post on the previous page) then I would recommend the Boxxer R2C2. It's easy to service, reliable, is highly tuneable so you can really get some experience with suspension adjustments and what they do, and it is much less expensive than either the 40 or the 888.

Just my suggestion though - others may have more compelling points of view.

Jm_ · Jan 28, 2012

Surprised no one has mentioned "any used or new fork chassi"+Avy cart. That will perform as good or better than anything else, easily tunable (just rearranged stack last week), amazing performance. You can have better performance for less if you do it right, then spend the leftover on some other nice bling.

S.K.C. · Jan 28, 2012

Kickstand said this in his first post:

Kickstand: I want something that I don't have to modify, so custom cartidges and all that jazz are out.

So, no aftermarket goodies.

gemini2k · Jan 28, 2012

kickstand said:
Im surprised how many are recommending the fox and Marzochi and how few are suggesting the boxxer. As someone who's not as up on the technology and not a hardcore racer who's just getting into the full Dh stuff I assumed the boxxer would have gotten more praise. Im curious why it doesn't?

Because they are a second rate fork that doesn't deserve to be mentioned next to a 40/888 and especially a Dorado. Like I always say, boxxers are my favorite fork for my shuttle friends to ride, because we usually end up with a driver by the first or second run.

jnooth · Jan 28, 2012

^^ you say that but I have run them for a while now problem free. If you know your way around a service and are not lazy they are the best feeling fork out there IMO.

I have never rode a dorado but would like to see how it stacks up.

gemini2k · Jan 28, 2012

jnooth said:
^^ you say that but I have run them for a while now problem free. If you know your way around a service and are not lazy they are the best feeling fork out there IMO.

I have never rode a dorado but would like to see how it stacks up.

That's the thing, you shouldn't have to service them that much. My 888 gets 1 maybe 2 rebuilds a year. Seals once every 2 years. And even just before the rebuild, after hundreds of thousands of feet of vert (well, maybe 100-200), boxxer owners will hop on my fork and be impressed with how it feels...and it's 4 years old. I'm 220 pounds, and ride reasonably hard. Not pro hard of course, but hard.

jnooth · Jan 28, 2012

If your talking about how often it needs to be serviced, YES an 888 will win. but for me, I ride hard and I ride often and its not a bother for me to take 20-30 minutes once a month and care for it.

do people buy a ferrari because they get good milage and you never have to change the oil? no they buy them because they perform better than the rest. or they are filthy rich but thats a deferent conversation

Help me spend my tax return, time to pick a fork, 40, boxxer, 888?

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