[TreeSaw]

In NC, an accident victim indicating that they are okay cannot be used as a subsititue for a medical determination, that's true of any accident victim. If she hit her face on the pavement, knocked a tooth out and was crying that certainly doesn't represent someone as being okay. The police are full of it, call 'em back tell 'em it was a hit and run and she is in fact injured and seeking medical attention. That'll get someone moving. If not, call a tv station or newspaper.

Definitely! I hope everything works out for her.

 

[Tattooo]

Now you know the difference between attempted vehicular homicide and a hit-n-run driver.

btw, here are "Legally Speaking" columns relevant to this situation.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/9204.0.html
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/9204.0.html

It was like first year criminal and tort law rolled into one....

What he fails to mention is that it is much easier for the police/DA to adjudicate the case if there is a primary response at the scene of said crime. In this regard, if you have a reasonable fear of grievous bodily harm, i.e. he is going to hit you with a car, then you have a legitimate use of force issue. While it might not be your cup of tea, I assure you that with road rage, king of the road type dildos, drawing down on them does tend to end the whole issue real fast. Also, in my personal experience the cops tend to side on the side of the smaller party, or the party that did not start the initial engagement.

But, your mileage may vary...

 

[OGRipper]

How is it self-defense if you pull a gun on someone after they hit and try to drive away?

Maybe I am just an ass-backward hippie living in Kalifornia, but shooting someone in the back as they are trying to leave is not self-defense.

 

[Tattooo]

You're also allowed to use your weapon in every state other then CA, MA, NY and MD to prevent the commission of a dangerous felony where harm is eminent or is in the process of happening.

So the logic would follow, and a couple DA's have agreed with me here, that since they had just harmed you that you were within your rights to draw your weapon with the intent of detaining them.

 

[DH Diva]

I just heard my friend is back from the dentist with said broken tooth back in one piece! Apparently if you get it tended too quickly enough, they can bond some types of breaks back together! Other than bruises, it looks like she is going to be okay.

It's now really up to her how far she wants to go to find the person. At this point I think she just wants it all to be over. The likely hood of finding the person at this point is small, but I do want to use this to get some better traffic control in this particular area.

Thank you all for the concern.

 

[OGRipper]

You're also allowed to use your weapon in every state other then CA, MA, NY and MD to prevent the commission of a dangerous felony where harm is eminent or is in the process of happening.

So the logic would follow, and a couple DA's have agreed with me here, that since they had just harmed you that you were within your rights to draw your weapon with the intent of detaining them.

Interesting. I have mixed feelings about personal firearms in heavily populated areas. It seems quite a leap of logic to say using a gun to detain someone who has already committed a harmful act follows from the permissible use of a gun to prevent eminent harm.

Do those DA's say it would be ok to shoot someone who is fleeing? If drawing the weapon doesn't work, are you allowed to use it? Or are you saying they condone the threat of a weapon but not the actual use? Just trying to understand the argument.

 

[DRB]

How is it self-defense if you pull a gun on someone after they hit and try to drive away?

Maybe I am just an ass-backward hippie living in Kalifornia, but shooting someone in the back as they are trying to leave is not self-defense.

Why must you hate freedom?

 

[sanjuro]

How is it self-defense if you pull a gun on someone after they hit and try to drive away?

Maybe I am just an ass-backward hippie living in Kalifornia, but shooting someone in the back as they are trying to leave is not self-defense.

The Bernhard Goetz defense?

 

[blue]

Its due to things like this as to why I keep this little bastard in my pack when I ride on the street...

Justice should be swift, and awe inspiring. This gets both done nicely...

You have no concept of reality, and only that of self.

Buy a U-Lock, you weeping vagina.

 

[Tattooo]

You have no concept of reality, and only that of self.

Buy a U-Lock, you weeping vagina.

U-lock v. car = you lose
car v. glock = fighting chance in hell

Yup, my reality ends when my head get hit by car.
Self preservation is the basis of my process.

 

[Tattooo]

Interesting. I have mixed feelings about personal firearms in heavily populated areas. It seems quite a leap of logic to say using a gun to detain someone who has already committed a harmful act follows from the permissible use of a gun to prevent eminent harm.

Explain this a bit more for me before I say anything to it.

Do those DA's say it would be ok to shoot someone who is fleeing? If drawing the weapon doesn't work, are you allowed to use it? Or are you saying they condone the threat of a weapon but not the actual use? Just trying to understand the argument.

depends on where you are. New Orleans actually gave a guy a commendation for shooting out a tire of someone who was attempting a hit and run on his car, so one could infer from this that the NOLA DA would be alright with it.

Guns, knives, the lot, are tools really. I am not sure how other localities would view using your weapon in a manner to detain a vehicle (i.e. shooting out the tires) so I would have to check into it.

 

[OGRipper]

Explain this a bit more for me before I say anything to it.

I understand the threat or use of force to prevent harm in self-defense. Shooting someone who is fleeing is entirely different. It's not preventing the injury, it's punishment or revenge. That's all well and good, you can say the criminal deserved it, that it might in some cases prevent additional injuries to other victims of that particular criminal, and that it might be a deterrent. But to me, one doesn't really "follow" from the other like you said.

 

[DRB]

I understand the threat or use of force to prevent harm in self-defense. Shooting someone who is fleeing is entirely different. It's not preventing the injury, it's punishment or revenge. That's all well and good, you can say the criminal deserved it, that it might in some cases prevent additional injuries to other victims of that particular criminal, and that it might be a deterrent. But to me, one doesn't really "follow" from the other like you said.

Think Peter Parker, if he had done something to stop the fleeing robber, Uncle Ben wouldn't have gotten killed.

 

[OGRipper]

Think Peter Parker, if he had done something to stop the fleeing robber, Uncle Ben wouldn't have gotten killed.

Yeah I get it, still two different things. But it's a good example and raises the question: Is it ok to shoot someone in the back after they rob you but otherwise do no harm?

 

[DRB]

Yeah I get it, still two different things. But it's a good example and raises the question: Is it ok to shoot someone in the back after they rob you but otherwise do no harm?

Until we develop that whole seeing the future dealy... probably best not to.

 

[sanjuro]

As the king of escalating situations, let me say pulling a gun in a traffic incident is either suicide or murder.

At what point are you justified pulling a pistol in traffic? After you get hit and the driver is making a u-turn to finish you off?

So far, I have been hit once on purpose, and I had to pedal like crazy to catch the SOB.

Conversely, I believe many irate drivers would be glad to run a cyclist over if he pulled a gun. And I believe many courts would find that to be self defense as well...

 

[blue]

U-lock v. car = you lose
car v. glock = fighting chance in hell

Yup, my reality ends when my head get hit by car.
Self preservation is the basis of my process.

I'm sure you've been in MANY situations where pulling a gun on someone is the wisest thing to do. I'm also sure that you've got plenty of time to fumble around for a loaded firearm when someone is trying to run you down.

Sorry, I deal with asshat drivers all day, and a gun would only make matters ten times worse than they already are. You have no idea what you're talking about. The gun just makes your dick feel bigger...that's all.

 

[Biscuit]

I'm sure you've been in MANY situations where pulling a gun on someone is the wisest thing to do.

If in fact you have.. you aint livin right.

 

[sikocycles]

and a woman was driving.

That answers the question.

 

[Tattooo]

If in fact you have.. you aint livin right.

You have never met the working end of Murphy's Law huh?

 

[Tattooo]

I'm sure you've been in MANY situations where pulling a gun on someone is the wisest thing to do. I'm also sure that you've got plenty of time to fumble around for a loaded firearm when someone is trying to run you down.

Training does help, as does knowing what a bad scene looks like before it happens. Someone cutting in and out of traffic, cutting off others, playing the break check game, gives you some time to prep. Works on the bike and the motorcycle.

Sorry, I deal with asshat drivers all day, and a gun would only make matters ten times worse than they already are. You have no idea what you're talking about. The gun just makes your dick feel bigger...that's all.

Tell ya what, after you get down from your all knowing soap box, come down to the real world in places like New Orleans. Pulled my weapon five times there, used it once. So take your omnipresence and stick it up your ass.

 

[Silver]

If you live in a place where you need to pull a gun 5 times, and you can afford said gun, a logical person with half a brain picks up and moves.

You do realize that (assuming you're not bull****ting) you've pulled your gun more often than many police officers do in a career?

Don't bother replying...I'm not arguing again with another crazy ass gun person. Worse than IDers...

 

[Tattooo]

Wasn't a choice. School had to be finished.
Now go back to OC and tell everyone how hella you are...

 

[Reactor]

This is the real annoying part. When the person asked if she was okay, she replied "Yeah I think so (keep in mind she was still on the ground bawling)." But what she meant was, "I don't think any limbs are broken and I'm still alive", not "Oh I'm fine feel free to go while I look for my teeth." The driver put the metal down immediately and took off, almost before she was even done speaking. We called the police and they said that because she replied that she was okay, the driver had every right to leave and they won't investigate the incident. I'm so flippin mad!!

???? Try the police again. Leaving the scene of an accident, without exchange information should still be investigated, especially shice the driver didn't stick around to look for damage to the bike or car. Even if your friend said she thinks she ok, the driver is still liable for damages.

 

[Reactor]

How is it self-defense if you pull a gun on someone after they hit and try to drive away?

Maybe I am just an ass-backward hippie living in Kalifornia, but shooting someone in the back as they are trying to leave is not self-defense.

You should ask former officer dan lovelace in chandler, who shot an killed a woman who tried to drive away after trying to pass a fake prescription. The county prosocuter proved he wasn't in any danger, and he got beat the murder charge.

In most states, including I believe california, shooting someone involved in the commission of a felony (hit &run, attempted homicide) is considered justifiable.

 

[kidwoo]

Wasn't a choice. School had to be finished.

edit:

 

[OGRipper]

You should ask former officer dan lovelace in chandler, who shot an killed a woman who tried to drive away after trying to pass a fake prescription. The county prosocuter proved he wasn't in any danger, and he got beat the murder charge.

Was he a cop when it happened? If so different rules apply. Regardless, if they called that self defense it's a joke.

Nobody should flee from the scene of any crime, but does it justify a private citizen gunning you down? I've been the victim of a hit and run, and you bet that part of me would want to shoot the ****er myself given the chance. Still, I don't want every yahoo packing heat and taking the law into their own hands.

 

[Tattooo]

edit:

Exactly